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One thing is the model issues, like what we all have been reporting. Rating, crew on deck, ribs, speeds, modules, etc. Granted, may be a balancer.

Another entire different is them being cannot trade / cannot be captured. And this is NO problem at all.

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4 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Meaning it has nothing to do with what I like or not.

 

Oh it has, my friend. It has a lot. But it would be too long to explain the whole thing here.

You cannot simply use definitions to define a thing that is still subject to changes (like a developing game)

But, just in case you are interested in the thing, you could start here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_game_(philosophy)

Edited by victor

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4 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

Tell me. Do those dlc ships literally break the combat? 

I would say yes with the Herc (haven't tried the Xebec).. I can do fifth rate missions with it and murder the AI opponents as it maneuvers like a snow.  I got jumped by a player in a heavy Rattler yesterday and barely got scratched...my 18pdrs dismantled him and again, I was more maneuverable (3/5 Teak/WO with basic mods). Its a 5th rate that turns like a snow.

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15 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

I would say yes with the Herc (haven't tried the Xebec).. I can do fifth rate missions with it and murder the AI opponents as it maneuvers like a snow.  I got jumped by a player in a heavy Rattler yesterday and barely got scratched...my 18pdrs dismantled him and again, I was more maneuverable (3/5 Teak/WO with basic mods). Its a 5th rate that turns like a snow.

I meant planes in that case. Dlc ships in naval action are broken in many ways 

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On 7/8/2018 at 12:30 PM, HachiRoku said:

Wouldn't it be better to have cheaper DLC ships and make them tradable/capable??? Requin is 12 euros but imo 5 euros for a ONE  time redeemable ship that can be traded or capt would be better for the overall game. Its like DLC weapons in battlefield. I always loved the way you could pick them up but not use them at the start of the round. Having a ship non capable breaks the combat system big time. You cannot swap ships in battle and take the one with better health. I know this is a problem for people that bought the dlc already but I think its a huge flaw that should be looked at sooner than later before more people buy it.  

No tradeable!!!

No captureable!!!!

Both the above would be abused greatly!

Please do not nerf heavily either! I get that minor fixes will be required but major nerfs to make the elites in this game more comfortable would be wrong in my opinion. I agree no PBs for DLC ships but as screeners, they would be awesome!!! The elites fear these ships cause they can come close to matching the elite gold OP stack ships generally used in PBs. 

I feel the current price and redemption rates are fair. 

More DLC please!!! If the uber elites are crying about it, it must be a good thing!!!

 

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15 hours ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

 

The Xebec could be improved by:

  • Add an in-built 60% marine advantage for the Xebec (I noticed that boarding an L'Ocean gives a chance to the 1st rate to wind, which is abnormal in Xebec-Action).
  • Deny the Determined Defender against a Xebec. (Why refusing PV0?)
  • Add an In-built Determined Defender for the Xebec (due to bad smelling of such overcrowded ships, no sailor wishes to board, even fully drunk)
  • add a couple of 22" long range torpedos at rear of the Xebec, in case of Xebec being obliged to run downwind, giving a fleet of 25 Fir/Fir full speed fitted Princes a chance to get it (and sinking a Xebec is fully abnormal isn't it?)
  • Replace the 2pd guns at the front by 68pd long guns (in built, free, and authorized on Xebecs only).

I laugh a little I cry a little 😂😭

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4 hours ago, Diceman said:

No tradeable!!!

No captureable!!!!

Both the above would be abused greatly!

Please do not nerf heavily either! I get that minor fixes will be required but major nerfs to make the elites in this game more comfortable would be wrong in my opinion. I agree no PBs for DLC ships but as screeners, they would be awesome!!! The elites fear these ships cause they can come close to matching the elite gold OP stack ships generally used in PBs. 

I feel the current price and redemption rates are fair. 

More DLC please!!! If the uber elites are crying about it, it must be a good thing!!!

 

Well then the combat will remain broken and it will get worse as more ships are added. 

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13 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Another entire different is them cannot be captured. And this is NO problem at all.

Have you ever boarded some1 when you were low life and switched ships to survive? If yes how can you say thats no problem?

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8 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Have you ever boarded some1 when you were low life and switched ships to survive? If yes how can you say thats no problem?

Guten morgen 

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I have no problem with DLC-ships, but they shouldnt be the best ship of their class imo.

Dont know how the Herc performs right now, but the requin is to strong with her sailing profile and the crew.

Non capturable is just annoying like hell, when it blocks good skill. Maybe go the middle way: make it capturable and usable in battle, but only players with the DLC are allowed to keep the ship after the battle. So beside the redeemable it is kinda a permit to own the ship aswell. People without the DLC can cap and use the ship in battle but appear in port after battle.

"The admirality took your ship to give it to a captain with the required permit (DLC not owned)" or something like that.

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1 hour ago, Abram Svensson said:

I have no problem with DLC-ships, but they shouldnt be the best ship of their class imo.

Dont know how the Herc performs right now, but the requin is to strong with her sailing profile and the crew.

Non capturable is just annoying like hell, when it blocks good skill. Maybe go the middle way: make it capturable and usable in battle, but only players with the DLC are allowed to keep the ship after the battle. So beside the redeemable it is kinda a permit to own the ship aswell. People without the DLC can cap and use the ship in battle but appear in port after battle.

"The admirality took your ship to give it to a captain with the required permit (DLC not owned)" or something like that.

I thought of that and it would be a solution for small ships. When it comes to larger dlc ships if they are added they should be 1 dura. I would pay 5 euro for a 1 duration 1st rate ship of the line. Maybe 2nd rates have 2 duration etc.... If it's a nice 1st I'd pay 10 euro for 1 duration but it needs to be capable. Just imagine how exciting it is to cap something like that. 

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16 hours ago, Hethwill said:

cannot be captured. And this is NO problem at all.

How's that? Isn't that completely limiting the enemy fleet? It's total bullshit man and will only get worse as more ships are added. The community asks for stuff and have 0 foresight. If the devs don't do something I will boycott every future dlc. I want Admiralty connection but I'm boycotting because 5 extra buildings is a advantage over non dlc owners. I know the community wanted it but that doesn't make it good for the game. 

Edit: I take the 5 building part back because we all the alts etc it has no impact. 

Edited by HachiRoku

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i dont like the idea to buy a ship and getting only one dura.

imagine a guy getting that ship and 10 minutes after that he gets ganked and loses it right away. would prefer to limit it over time.

but if i remember correctly it was somewhere written, that no SOLs will get added as DLC ships. maybe @admin could help us here.

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23 minutes ago, Abram Svensson said:

i dont like the idea to buy a ship and getting only one dura.

imagine a guy getting that ship and 10 minutes after that he gets ganked and loses it right away. would prefer to limit it over time.

but if i remember correctly it was somewhere written, that no SOLs will get added as DLC ships. maybe @admin could help us here.

yes admin said no DLC line ships

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Still need to fix uncapable ships in battle. Like Abraham said remove them after battle I don't care but until that's fixed I'm not going to support content that is actively breaking the game with my money. 

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1 hour ago, HachiRoku said:

How's that? Isn't that completely limiting the enemy fleet? It's total bullshit man and will only get worse as more ships are added. The community asks for stuff and have 0 foresight. If the devs don't do something I will boycott every future dlc. I want Admiralty connection but I'm boycotting because 5 extra buildings is a advantage over non dlc owners. I know the community wanted it but that doesn't make it good for the game. 

Edit: I take the 5 building part back because we all the alts etc it has no impact. 

Absolutely. You are free to agree or disagree and boycott whatever you feel like. We, individuals, are only as important.

For every Hachi there's a Xebec. For every Roku there's a Hercules.

 

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40 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Absolutely. You are free to agree or disagree and boycott whatever you feel like. We, individuals, are only as important.

For every Hachi there's a Xebec. For every Roku there's a Hercules.

 

It has has nothing to do with oppinions but something being broken or not. You said non cap ships are NO problem so I would like to hear an argument why you say that because it is clearly not the case. 

Let's imagine 2 fleets of perfectly balanced ships clash. One side has dlc ships and the other does not. Both sides are of equal skill. There is NO chance in hell the DLC side can loose for 2 reasons. 

1 They have no economic value and can be replaced with 1 mouse click. Dlc fleet only looses upgrades and cannons. This breaks logistics in shallow water rvr big time. Not allowing dlc ships to join port battles is BS and a sign of a broken game. Why would I pay for something that can't take part in half of the player driven content?  :( Major flaw!!!! 

2 the dlc fleet can capture and swap to healthy ships when they want so have a huge tactical advantage over non dlc ships. 2nd Major flaw!!!! 

Now, please give me 2 good arguments against the 2 huge game breaking mechanics I pointed out here...Their are working mechanics and broken ones and THAT MATTERS!  

I get that 1dura dlc ships is business suicide but there needs to be some kind of fix

Edited by HachiRoku

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DLC ships are a excellent choice for a player that does not want anything to do with the "economic value" and simply wants to pvp out-of-the-box.

They are sterile models, as they do not "exist" in the economic level of crafting, but still marginally participate into it due to being valued in marks and currency reward.

A DLC ship is available every 24 hours.

Non dlc ships, example snake heavy or snow or cerberus can be built by a dozen in aggregate of 12 hours of gameplay.

That's major difference. 1 per day vs 12 per day .

 

So yes, it is a matter of choice.

I like to play both sides of the coin. Today I just want to blaze guns, i grab a Hercules. Tomorrow I want a more into sandbox, I go resource gathering and build some nice frigates.

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On 7/9/2018 at 1:55 AM, Christendom said:

Current DLC model is fine.  They are premium ships that are significantly better than anything closely resembling counterparts and quite frankly they should be. 

You really think that creating paywalls to compete is a good idea?  

Crafted ships have to be comparable, I'm starting to wish I hadn't bought this DLC.  Basically if you enter the Nassau patrol in anything other than these ships you are next to useless.  The br ratings are a joke the herc is twice as good as a rattlesnake hvy and the requin is arguably even better. 

Not to mention if pvp is dominated by dlc ships (future non shallow ships included).  That give pvp marks when they sink, just creates more net gain and makes the games currency mean even less. 

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2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

DLC ships are a excellent choice for a player that does not want anything to do with the "economic value" and simply wants to pvp out-of-the-box.

They are sterile models, as they do not "exist" in the economic level of crafting, but still marginally participate into it due to being valued in marks and currency reward.

A DLC ship is available every 24 hours.

Non dlc ships, example snake heavy or snow or cerberus can be built by a dozen in aggregate of 12 hours of gameplay.

That's major difference. 1 per day vs 12 per day .

 

So yes, it is a matter of choice.

I like to play both sides of the coin. Today I just want to blaze guns, i grab a Hercules. Tomorrow I want a more into sandbox, I go resource gathering and build some nice frigates.

12 cerbs a day? 12 people can redeem 12 ships to. If you're alone with no alts crafting 2 cerbs a day is not even easy. Without labor contracts Impossible if you need cannons and mats. Again, dlc ships not been allowed in Port battles is a waste of ship and a sad unnecessary compromise. "Sterile models" is a nice way to describe something useless. I rarely play port battles but I still take them into account. You can't have real rvr without logistics and no need for shipyards and sailing ships is bollocks. 

I still need an answer to justify non cap ships in battles since this is the point of topic but I know you don't have one because it's simply broken. 

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DLC Ships should have 2 perks

1. They do not need to be crafted, only redeemed

2. They give the player a ship that is unique or has a unique style compared to other ships of it's class

For these 2 points the requin and hercules are successful in my mind. But they should absolutely NOT be more powerful then other ships. They should be balanced accordingly with other ships of the same class. When they are balanced with their counterparts they would also be allowed in port battles of shallow or deep.

This is what I hope for....right now though they are broken and too powerful for their weight class.

Edited by Teutonic

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8 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

When they are balanced with their counterparts they would also be allowed in port battles of shallow or deep.

If you cannot take command of them until battle over once captured they remain overpowered compared to non dlc ships period. Even if they are 100% balanced they are an advantage. 

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