Seeking unfair advantage with an alt

[Prater]

If @koltes wasn't involved, how can he be punished for it?

By the same token, @Slim Jimmerson should get banned for claiming to be an alt in the events relating to this tribunal.

[Koltes]

44 minutes ago, Prater said:

If @koltes wasn't involved, how can he be punished for it?

By the same token, @Slim Jimmerson should get banned for claiming to be an alt in the events relating to this tribunal.

Or expression of my opinion taken as  admission

[Kawazz]

On 7/31/2017 at 11:58 AM, Christendom said:

For reference here is a screenshot of the encounter at Savannah where a BLACK clan member tags in the pirate alt in question.  It is worth noting that the player Koiz in the battle that streamed the encounter did go pirate with his entire clan the very next day.  It was almost like he was bragging......

This is however, water under the bridge....so I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

and the same player sailing in consort with the BLACK clan members after the battle

 

 

 

Since my post was deleted....

Quit lying about and making up stories and implying we were part of some plan to take the port. There was no plan whatsoever to work with the pirates.

We left the Nation for same reasons you guys did, and after that battle we had no reason to stay in the USA.

We weren't bragging about anything.  I guess the forums is where you get your enjoyment these days. Just a reminder lies don't win battles.

Edited August 2, 2017 by koiz

[Skully]

It's called a voluntary false confession. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech or the ownership of the forum.

Again note that I call it a false confession, because I'm not aiming to "win".

[Skully]

6 hours ago, Prater said:

If @koltes wasn't involved, how can he be punished for it?

If we're speaking hypothetical punishment, it would be against the accused, Clan BLACK, @koltes being its spokesman.

I'm not against Clan BLACK, far from it, so I don't see any point in extracting any form of real punishment.

6 hours ago, Prater said:

By the same token, @Slim Jimmerson should get banned for claiming to be an alt in the events relating to this tribunal.

Strictly speaking, yes, he should be punished because the rules state that open admission of an alt is punishable. (There is more grey in here, because it was not an open admission. Lets not sidetrack.)

And so I come back to my original point, if we are to play by the rules, then we need to have good rules and stick to those rules. This goes in battle, OW and Tribunal.

Strictly speaking, Clan BLACK has admitted (through its spokesman @koltes) to using an alt to their advantage in the assault on Savannah.

Hence I posed the question:

On 7/31/2017 at 8:46 AM, Skully said:

is the statement made by @koltes deemed sufficient prove to substantiate the accusation?

If folks feel they are being treated unfairly, then they will begrudge the game (or the dev team) and subsequently will leave it.

And in this one is just about everyone is feeling being treated unfairly. But rules are rules and if we can agree on proper rules, then we can still feel being treated unfairly but not claim it anymore.

(The alternative being, crafting a bloody shitload of ridiculously expensive 7th rate lawyer modules for everybody to sail around with. )

[Koltes]

5 hours ago, Skully said:

Strictly speaking, Clan BLACK has admitted (through its spokesman @koltes) to using an alt to their advantage in the assault on Savannah

1. This is misleading and incorrect.
2. No admission was made and could not have made by a person who was never involved in the incident altogether.
3. Koltes merely expressed his opinion that if some pirate choose to use an alt and BLACK had no idea of that then its totally legit for them to carry on whether they didn't know or found out during the process later.

If we are to play by the rules its clearly said that you must prove ones guilt. Using words of a person who expressed his opinion in a totally legit way is a sign that you are in fact have no evidence whatsoever. Do you have anything else to throw at us?

Unless you are to provide any evidence, I believe I have responded enough to the same accusations that were made without enough grounds and I don't have to repeat myself over and over. Now if you excuse me, we have ports to take.

[Duncan McFail]

Speaking for BLACK we are tired of getting our name dragged through the mud. I'd ask @admin or @Ink to lock this thread as the situation has already been dealt with on a previous tribunal. I also think you should enforce penalties on these frivolous tribunal threads. Between global chat and these tribunal threads these ex-pvp1 forum warriors are doing nothing but slandering our name with no repercussions. 

[Hodo]

1 hour ago, Duncan McFail said:

Speaking for BLACK we are tired of getting our name dragged through the mud. I'd ask @admin or @Ink to lock this thread as the situation has already been dealt with on a previous tribunal. I also think you should enforce penalties on these frivolous tribunal threads. Between global chat and these tribunal threads these ex-pvp1 forum warriors are doing nothing but slandering our name with no repercussions. 

Again not slander in this case.

But you all have kind of earned a reputation that you yourself has helped to foster.   With comments and remarks.   

[Daguse]

16 hours ago, koltes said:

See my reply to Hodo mate. I haven't broken any censorship rules else I would have a warning for THAT. Rules of this forum state that I'm entitled to expess my opnion if I don't break rules of the forum (harrass, abuse, offend, racism, bigotry etc etc). USA is a state with a freedom of speech, but it does not mean you can break laws of the country, such as make racist, sexims remarks, abuse people etc. No different. I can say whatever I want as long as it goes with the rules of this forum.

In US freedom of speech also does NOT mean you can say whatever you like. There are also rules and regulations. FOS means that you can express your opinion within set rules and government may change the laws however it see fit. 

So who do you think controls the rules of the forums, and who enforces the rules, and who ensures they are enforced appropriately? yes you can say what ever you want, but the rules of the forum don't protect you from anything, they are merely guidelines. If Admin wants to censor your ass for any reason, he damn well can and you don't even have peg leg to stand on. If you think you do... boy do I have a ship to sell you. It looks and sails like a basic cutter but has the guns, armor, and crew of a vic. She's a shallow water too with built in unlimited repairs and rum. All your for a cool 5 mill. 

 

As for the BLACK clan name, may be try and be part of the community and not finding ways to circumvent mechanics. You earn a reputation, it's never given with out cause. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by Daguse

[Skully]

1 hour ago, Duncan McFail said:

Speaking for BLACK we are tired of getting our name dragged through the mud. I'd ask @admin or @Ink to lock this thread as the situation has already been dealt with on a previous tribunal. I also think you should enforce penalties on these frivolous tribunal threads. Between global chat and these tribunal threads these ex-pvp1 forum warriors are doing nothing but slandering our name with no repercussions. 

And this is called defamation of character.

[Vernon Merrill]

Just my $.02...  I have nothing against the BLACK guys...  they ply the game as they see fit...  I, as a Frenchman, play the game as I see fit...   We disagree on how we prefer to play the game, and that is fine...

But with mechanics as currently implemented, I personally dont see any grounds for punishment.  Honestly, the ONLY difference is that the 'rats can tag ONE ANOTHER while nats have to tag an ALT to achieve the same function...

Its up to the devs to implement mechanics that render certain undesirable mechanics impossible...

Now, if we could just figure out a way to raise the level of respect on Global chat, I'd be more impressed.  Remember people, we almost lost GLOBAL chat once...  Nothing is preventing them from doing it in the future...  Enough of the "you suck...  got rekt...  i banged ur mom..."  BS.   Captains in the late 18th/early 19th century were Gentlemen 1st and Capatains 2nd...  lets try and act THAT way for a change.

[Skully]

18 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

But with mechanics as currently implemented, I personally dont see any grounds for punishment.  Honestly, the ONLY difference is that the 'rats can tag ONE ANOTHER while nats have to tag an ALT to achieve the same function...

Its up to the devs to implement mechanics that render certain undesirable mechanics impossible...

Here is a fundamental difference in how gaming is perceived in different cultures.

In one it says, the rules define what is allowed in a game, in another the implementation is the law.

Here we're floundering a bit in between, like an AI ship in irons. In the implementation is law view, Clan BLACK did not nothing wrong. Nothing was exploited, nowhere was cheated. The situation presented itself and subsequently used as such.

However I reckon the word of @admin is the law, who has stated that alt usage for PBs is a punishable offence. Which I see more in line with the rules being the law.

Anything in between becomes a grey area which is up for grabs.

31 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Now, if we could just figure out a way to raise the level of respect on Global chat, I'd be more impressed.  Remember people, we almost lost GLOBAL chat once...  Nothing is preventing them from doing it in the future...  Enough of the "you suck...  got rekt...  i banged ur mom..."  BS.   Captains in the late 18th/early 19th century were Gentlemen 1st and Capatains 2nd...  lets try and act THAT way for a change.

I belief mutual respect is granted and can not be obtained. Some grant it only to folks who engage them in ship combat on their terms, others may hold a wider view.

But again, perception is the most important. Whether it is left or right is not important to me, it does however to the intended audience for this game.

[Vernon Merrill]

Not to seem too old and curmudgeonly, but I think much has to do on the player's age...  Many of us, ahem, older folks play the game for a release from our daily real-life grind...  We get joy from merely NOT doing chores/dealing with kids/taking out the trash/etc....  I think many of the, ahem, younger players are still in the COD/BF mindset of trying to prove their abilities in an attempt to either "fit-in" or garner prestige...

 

I KNOW there's a compromise/sweet spot somewhere...  its just a matter of enforcing it, I suppose.

[Skully]

14 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Not to seem too old and curmudgeonly, but I think much has to do on the player's age...  Many of us, ahem, older folks play the game for a release from our daily real-life grind...  We get joy from merely NOT doing chores/dealing with kids/taking out the trash/etc....  I think many of the, ahem, younger players are still in the COD/BF mindset of trying to prove their abilities in an attempt to either "fit-in" or garner prestige...

I see this as too much of a generalization. I think it lies in how folks approach gaming, whether defined by culture or age should not make a difference. 

In the left view, Clan BLACK did not exploit nor cheat  (fact). Ergo being called a cheater is considered an insult.

In the right (sorry, couldn't resist this one ) view, Clan BLACK has admitted to taking an unfair advantage with the alt in play (fact). Not acknowledging this is considered an insult.

So both sides are simply insulting one another.

14 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

I KNOW there's a compromise/sweet spot somewhere...  its just a matter of enforcing it, I suppose.

I'm not in favour of enforcing (but don't tell my kids ).

Rather I would like to find the middle ground.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Skully
forgot to highlight facts

[JobaSet]

@Ink why is this still here.  If the op really thinks what happened was so wrong why are the BRITS, THE US, and THE French doing the same thing to hide in battle (with a 3 min timer and battle disappears from open world) just to gain Star power around Mort so when there alt calls out someone leaving MORT.  IT IS A valid tactic for them.... BLACK and The Pirates as a Whole see this as good tacit with the current build.  We don't use it yet!!! As why they not crying about it yet!!! No need too  

The only solution, That has even come close to fixing their problem, would be.

1. Give Nation on Nation combat to everyone.
2. Make ALL and I mean every single PVP and PVE engagement like Pirate on pirate anyone and everyone joining is RED to everything in battle so anyone can JOIN.
3.  Put a death Circle around all PVP engagements, (lol) IF you want, the code already there from old port battles(Care bear tears incoming)

Alts will never go away as long as:

1. Pirate den is not the same as Nations - end of story.

 

 I love the Idea,  But that might end the world as we know it in NA.  But omg it sounds fun.

Also @koltes not sure why they are picking on you or black as a whole, problem was fixed.  We gladly give it back to you if you promise to come to battle with 1st rates when we take it back.  But you wont even come take it back with 1st rates and we don't even screen "YET"

Edited August 4, 2017 by JobaSet

[Hethwill]

locked for review