Visible crew display

[Larkis]

Hello Everybody,

 

my name is Larkis. I'm a huge fan from sail games from Sid Meiers Pirates, over Pirates of the carribian to the sail part of Empires: Total War and even Assassins Creed Black Flag. I'm a huge Fan of this Century and i really like to see another Game on the horizon.

 

But there is one point that really dissapoint me on all ships. The absence of the crew. Look, a Ship in this time has 100-300 Men to work. But there is no game where i can see those people. Mostly there are 1-2 standing on Cannons, do nothing or some other just play idle animations. And i mostly hate this magic sails which work without any person.

 

When i look on the Movie Master & Commander or read the books from O'Brien, i always see (or imagine) decks full of people working. But also in Youtube Videos from Naval Action there is nobody on the ship (except some guys with idle animation) and sails and cannons work magicly.

 

Sadly Empires/Napoleon Total War does the best job in this. It has magic sails but on deck there are a lot of sailros, sea-soldiers and officers and also guys on the cannons who really work on them.

 

Actualy i see this:

http://static.squarespace.com/static/519a3512e4b00c954c606410/t/5405db58e4b01b550b3fe5cd/1409669978153/yacht.jpg?format=1500w

 

But i want to see this:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/august07/empiretw.jpg

 

http://i1-games.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/Napoleon-Total-War-Gameplay-Trailer-HD_18.jpg

 

So i know thats an alpha, and that crew visuals are not a key feature and not very important actualy.

 

But whats the plan, how should it be in the final release?

[Destraex]

I know the devs say that crew takes up a lot of frames the more they put in. They have already removed gun recoil and ports opening and closing for now because of the frame rate.

I would guess that the devs will work on crew more as they move towards a more permanent solution for boarding which may not be for 6 months or more. I don't know.

 

For the most part you do not see the crew in naval action but it is enough to give an impression of life when looking at an enemy ship through a telescope.

 

P.S. Those Empire Total War crew look ridiculous

[Mirones]

jep nothing on the feed mean sliding on a damaged deck during combat would mean very nasty injurys on the feed and legs while sliding above a part where halflose Splinters would burry them inside the poor man and knowing about the rate of death from infection back then this would most likely mean 1 dead Crewmember eacht time someon slips.

 

but as posted above more will be displayed in future with more optimasation.

the game has improved since doing the 20player massfleet battles during focus testing i hat to go down to lower settings to stay at 12-16 fps.

in the curretn 5vs5 and similar matches i play on high and ultra with 50-60 fps.

 

and Admin stated that they want to ensure playability for all during 25vs25 matches and bigger.

22 First Rates during Focus testing meant alot of of balls splinters flying around some  matches where even in the current storm setting oh how my PC maked loud noises wich could have been taken for crys of for mercy.

[Percival Merewether]

Hello all

 

I too am fairly new to this game and would like to see the same ingame as Larkis here. But as this is in Alpha phase and (very ) poorly optimized, I have much faith in the devs implementing much of the stuff mentioned here at some point.

I agree with you that so far Napoleon/Empire is the game that does the best in regards to sailors on deck, just a shame that the game is so terrible compared to other sailing games Favorite one by far is without a doubt Naval Action.

 

It looks like the game that I have been waiting for ever since my father bought me the LEGO pirate sets over 20 years ago

 

Keep up the good work devs! 

[Mirones]

if you cant wait for the next key and had a good childhood with that lego ship:

http://www.model-shipyard.com/html/z01uk.html

 

there are even some Kits made from thick paper.

will buy one after i get my first paypent in Januar

[Destraex]

That model has no crew on it

In fact have you EVER seen a tall ship model with full crew on deck?

[Percival Merewether]

if you cant wait for the next key and had a good childhood with that lego ship:

http://www.model-shipyard.com/html/z01uk.html

 

there are even some Kits made from thick paper.

will buy one after i get my first paypent in Januar

 

I would love to, but as a poor student, I have to choose between travelling and shipmodeling   So travelling it is!

 

That model has no crew on it

In fact have you EVER seen a tall ship model with full crew on deck?

 

I have, at the NMM in greenwich this summer 

[Destraex]

Show me. Pics or it did not happen! haha

[Crankey]

Perhaps the quantity of crew carrying out various activities, will be an option setting for each captain to control locally on their own PC/System. Those with cutting edge high end systems can have everything, whilst those with lesser capability find settings that allow a smooth game with fewer options turned on.

 

i would like to see the option below or similar in your setup options, so that you can stylise suitable for your own PC capability.

(I would like this also for other GFX options such as Sail quality/animation, Cannon recoil & Crew reacting, gunports, damaged ship animation etc etc. let the players worry about the level of detail they choose )

 

Own Ship YES/NO

Gun crew visible  1%----------------------100%

Sail crew visible   1%----------------------100%

Officers visible     1%----------------------100%

Repair Crew visible  1%-------------------100%

 

 

Other ships within 100 yards YES/NO

Gun crew visible  1%----------------------100%

Sail crew visible   1%----------------------100%

Officers visible     1%----------------------100%

Repair Crew visible  1%-------------------100%

 

Other Ships within 400 yards YES/NO

Gun crew visible  1%----------------------100%

Sail crew visible   1%----------------------100%

Officers visible     1%----------------------100%

Repair Crew visible  1%-------------------100%

 

Imagine a slider somewhere on the lines above, could also be in fractions say 1/4  1/2  3/4  full etc, whats important to me is that the choice is available.

[Larkis]

Yeah i really like that.

 

In my opinion the player is not just a ship. It's a Captain from a Crew ON a Ship.

 

And seriously. In times where we have over 10.000 high detailed unique NPC's in one Game system requirements are not an understandlbe reson for not implementing a working and fighting Crew.

 

Look at AC: Black Flag. I know its a really bad sail simulation, but the feeling of really standing on the ship is amazing. See poeple walk and work, singing shantys ect. I really like that.

 

Im ok with the point that animations for sail-workers for every sail variant is just to much. But it should be more. then just 4 guys plishing a cannon  whil its firing.

 

For me minimum would be a animatet crew on every cannon which really work on it and Sea-Soldiers / Officiers. Like in Total War.

 

BtW: Hope my Steam-key arrives today/this weekend.

[kaboki]

 

 

 singing shantys ect.

 

I can live without the "singing shanty's", most annoying thing with that game was the singing crew

[Illusive Tabby]

True, AC:Black Flag was not a sailing simulator by any means, but at the very least, you that the impression you were on a ship...Especially during the storms. Oh gawd how I loved the storms in that game.

 

And true, OP, there is a lack of visible crew but, for the most part, I'm more focused on the enemy ship than anything else.

 

And to who posted the crew slider thingamabob idea, POTBS had that and yea, it worked well.

[Larkis]

 

And true, OP, there is a lack of visible crew but, for the most part, I'm more focused on the enemy ship than anything else.

 

Indeed. But as i understand, the game want to be more than a battle arena. So you will have times, traveling the sea for maybe 20 Minutes without another Ship or island on the horizon. So the only thing you have to watch is your own Ship. And that should be interesting. :-)

[Destraex]

Black Flag can do what it does because there is simply nothing going on under the hood. The computer has so little to calculate that there is a lot of computing power left for pretty things like crew and more detail.

Naval Action on the other hand has a lot to calculate with every cannon ball and hit being calculated for physics and damage and every sail on every yard arm being calculated. It has always been the same with simulators. They sacrifice flavour and graphics for something more cerebral and interesting mechanic wise. It's why a lot of flight simulators do not have hundreds but only 20 or so aircraft in the sky at once.

[Downunderjock]

Ahoy, from Downunder. (Australia.)

 

If I may toss my hat into the ring, if I may. 

 

And pardon how I put this.

 

When this Sim/ game, gets going completely, hopefully, as noticed from other threads.

 

Maybe, the Devls, might have it whether in Battle, Blockading a Port (though this can to be boring to some, as it was in the Real World at the time.) or just Sailing the High Seas, (whether it be chasing a prize, or escaping one chasing you.) for the purpose, of locating the enemy, etc.

 

It may be that, you will be able to light along the length, breath, go aloft (heights) and go aft (below) to look upon the decks, of you vessel, be it in or during battle, or when just cruising from one point to another.  

 

Access all areas, in good detail, even "The Head" the toilet. Crews and Captains, which are both different. Stir! Hee!

(picture it, Captain peacefully on the Loo, when he hears Gun fire, that has a Cannonball, wizzing pass him, from a broadside to his ship, in shock he stumbles off, while trying to raise his trousers, etc, to rush to the upperdecks, his station, to scout the scene and receive a report, of what the devil is going on.)

 

Or late at night, in the darkness, the crew is awoken, to stumble, out of their cots, due to their ship is under attack, to the cries of "All hands to Stations" thus trying as quick as possible, to ready, their guns.   

 

Like in a lot of other types, of games. eg: Si Fi ones. Some of the Modern Warfare one's. Or like modern or old world types, walking around cities, etc.

 

 

Or could their be and add on sim/ game/s, down the track??:

 

 

For the likes of exploration, like James Cook, Matthew Flinders, Bligh, and other counterparts, from other Nations, of that period or earlier, or later.

And others from all nations, to whom without them, who knows, what our New Worlds, would be like today.

Which, I also would like to see. (If I may like in, Port Royal, East India Company, POC or now as TransOcean, parts of Empire Total War, etc.)  

 

I know that some don't like the idea, of travelling on the High Seas, or to too many Ports, for too long. Whether it be Naval Battle, Merchant trading or Exploration. (like in Ship Sim Ex, or Say Silent Hunter 3,4,5, etc.)

 

But that's part of the course, so to speak. In parts you can time compress, in others you have to sail for an hour, in all kinds, of conditions.

(they didn't have the luck, of click a button, or travel warp speed, or get in a plane.)

 

Anyway, I hope you will all not mind how I put this. Or it's length.

 

Oh, and the crew's uniform/s change with the weather, esp if on the upper deck's, or as you go below, and visa a versa.

(or bare chested blokes, for some, if the weather is hot or humid, on deck or below.) 

 

Fair Winds and Follow Seas.

[Robert Danforth]

Black Flag can do what it does because there is simply nothing going on under the hood. The computer has so little to calculate that there is a lot of computing power left for pretty things like crew and more detail.

Naval Action on the other hand has a lot to calculate with every cannon ball and hit being calculated for physics and damage and every sail on every yard arm being calculated. It has always been the same with simulators. They sacrifice flavour and graphics for something more cerebral and interesting mechanic wise. It's why a lot of flight simulators do not have hundreds but only 20 or so aircraft in the sky at once.

 

And, much like here, most planes don't have crew either. Occasionally you can see a pilot/co-pilot. You'll almost NEVER see passengers.

[Larkis]

Im sorry that you must wait so long for the answer. A lot to do in reallife.

I think my english is to bad so my writing is not understandable.

One really important point for a simulation is the visualisation what happen around you. Actual you dont gain visual feedback from the game. For example 5 of my 6 cannons are broken but i dont know cause there all standing theerr with sometimes people working on them. And i want to know howvlong i have time before enemy has reload. I dont get the answer. If i want to know the weak spots of an enemy ship i dont look on the ship i look on the GUI. And a good simulation should work without GUI, only if neccessary.

And sorry but the last flight simulator is more than 10 years old. And it also have ships, trees grass and cars which are not neccessary for the flight. But thats the think mainstrem players would look at.

Seriously. There are a lots of people out there who dont interest the depht of the damage calculation. They only see that the ships look like from revell, like toys. And when Naval Action should work as Multiplayer only it needs the playerbase.

When you have a first class with a few hundred people... it should not look like a toy or ghost ship.

[Grim DeGrim]

My thought this past week is that I really lose a sense of scale with the current crew.

My brig (largest ship atm, please bear with the example!) does not feel like it could possibly hold 120 crew when I look at the avatars (the deck is near full with 10 that I have on Ultra setting).

I am about the combat! I certainly appreciate the trade off for visuals versus fps. But the crew would be "Grace notes" that would polish the game and perhaps add a sense of scale to the ships.

PS - if love to have cannon recoil back! Make it a user decision based on their system...

[Wakelessrex]

I feel confident that this feature will come with time. We may not get very large crew models displayed or accurate 800+ for 1st rates (never been done before)

but im sure at some point later on the crews will start to get bigger and have more flavour.

Of course a good word from the devs on this never hurt anything!

I am looking forward to see what they do!

[Robert Danforth]

Im sorry that you must wait so long for the answer. A lot to do in reallife.

I think my english is to bad so my writing is not understandable.

One really important point for a simulation is the visualisation what happen around you. Actual you dont gain visual feedback from the game. For example 5 of my 6 cannons are broken but i dont know cause there all standing theerr with sometimes people working on them. And i want to know howvlong i have time before enemy has reload. I dont get the answer. If i want to know the weak spots of an enemy ship i dont look on the ship i look on the GUI. And a good simulation should work without GUI, only if neccessary.

And sorry but the last flight simulator is more than 10 years old. And it also have ships, trees grass and cars which are not neccessary for the flight. But thats the think mainstrem players would look at.

Seriously. There are a lots of people out there who dont interest the depht of the damage calculation. They only see that the ships look like from revell, like toys. And when Naval Action should work as Multiplayer only it needs the playerbase.

When you have a first class with a few hundred people... it should not look like a toy or ghost ship.

 

Neither X-Plane nor Prepar3d are 10 years old (although the latter is a lot of patches on said 10 year old sim). And there are plenty of military sims without full crews either.

 

It's taxing.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Perhaps the quantity of crew carrying out various activities, will be an option setting for each captain to control locally on their own PC/System. Those with cutting edge high end systems can have everything, whilst those with lesser capability find settings that allow a smooth game with fewer options turned on.

 

i would like to see the option below or similar in your setup options, so that you can stylise suitable for your own PC capability.

(I would like this also for other GFX options such as Sail quality/animation, Cannon recoil & Crew reacting, gunports, damaged ship animation etc etc. let the players worry about the level of detail they choose )

 

Own Ship YES/NO

Gun crew visible  1%----------------------100%

Sail crew visible   1%----------------------100%

Officers visible     1%----------------------100%

Repair Crew visible  1%-------------------100%

 

 

Other ships within 100 yards YES/NO

Gun crew visible  1%----------------------100%

Sail crew visible   1%----------------------100%

Officers visible     1%----------------------100%

Repair Crew visible  1%-------------------100%

 

Other Ships within 400 yards YES/NO

Gun crew visible  1%----------------------100%

Sail crew visible   1%----------------------100%

Officers visible     1%----------------------100%

Repair Crew visible  1%-------------------100%

 

Imagine a slider somewhere on the lines above, could also be in fractions say 1/4  1/2  3/4  full etc, whats important to me is that the choice is available.

 

Only if people that are unable to render the crew are not put at a disadvantage.  Whatever is shown, that crew can not provide extra information on enemy ships that can not be gleaned through a means that doesn't require them.

 

I can live without the "singing shanty's", most annoying thing with that game was the singing crew

 

They're not so bad....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQfJ8ZcpIAU#t=1920

 

Im sorry that you must wait so long for the answer. A lot to do in reallife.

I think my english is to bad so my writing is not understandable.

One really important point for a simulation is the visualisation what happen around you. Actual you dont gain visual feedback from the game. For example 5 of my 6 cannons are broken but i dont know cause there all standing theerr with sometimes people working on them. And i want to know howvlong i have time before enemy has reload. I dont get the answer. If i want to know the weak spots of an enemy ship i dont look on the ship i look on the GUI. And a good simulation should work without GUI, only if neccessary.

And sorry but the last flight simulator is more than 10 years old. And it also have ships, trees grass and cars which are not neccessary for the flight. But thats the think mainstrem players would look at.

Seriously. There are a lots of people out there who dont interest the depht of the damage calculation. They only see that the ships look like from revell, like toys. And when Naval Action should work as Multiplayer only it needs the playerbase.

When you have a first class with a few hundred people... it should not look like a toy or ghost ship.

 

It shouldn't, but nor should it create a requirement for a first-class machine to run the game.  

[Robert Danforth]

Wow, thank you for posting the HMS Pinafore video. I know what I'm watching today!

 

Also, I love sea shanties, I have like 10 albums of them, but I might be a bit deranged.

[Larkis]

I tought alot about your answers and Ideas and get a complete overhaul of the crew idea. Cause its much more than just "Can we have Crew pls" i will post in into a new topic.

[Larkis]

Hey again.

 

I my last thread i ask about a visual animated and simulated Crew on the ships and get some answers that they are not important for a simulation. For example in a flight simulation you never see passengers in your maschine ect.

 

So i thought a lot about this and the (for me) main Question, whats the simulation part of sailing ships?

 

So i read a lot of books, for example Jack Aubrey or Hornblower and there is one point that seems really important for me and is an iconic picture. The captain looks to the other ship, see what the crew do and find out what the others captain is plan.Thats is in my opinion very important. On the same stage with sailing simulation and cannon simulation.

 

So how can a visible Crew help to improve the simulation?

 

Just simple: They can show what you actual only see on the gui.

 

To explain:

 

Cannon-Status:

You got 2 Crewman on every canon reloading it, targeting or firing it. So with a look on your cannons you cann see which cannons are loaded, how long the other need to reload and which are broken (crew lay dead on the ground and cannon is broken)

 

Crew Focus:

Also there is a third Man which is mobile. if you focus your Crew on sail, he climbs up the mast and work on the sails. If your focus is on gunnery, he is working on the cannons (maybe just targeting idle animation) when on survival, he is away and water came out of the pump holes (im sorry for my bad english, i hope its understandable). On Repair Focus, he is there and repair.

 

Maneuvering:

There are people on the deck work on lines (connected to the sails). Just an workloop animation everytime you trim the sails. And everytime you set more sails, people enter up the masts release or draw back the sails ect.

 

This should be only on the top deck. All other decks only have animated cannons.

 

This should not be a realistic Crew simulation. It should just be Models with different animationloops for the situation. The target is that you don't need a gui. You dont need a gui to see whats wrong with your ship. You just look at it. Also you can use the bino to see on the target ship. You see what happens there. Like a real commander. That is an important part of the simulation for me. To really feel it, really beeing there, and not just look on toyships and a really ugly gui.

 

And i know some of you are afraid that this will push the system requirements. And yeah that is possible. But if you don't want it, just disable it in the options and have the GUI back, giving you the same information but without immersion.

 

 

Greetings (and really sorry for my english)

 

Larkis

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Edited because I forgot my reading glasses.  Cheers Mr. Larkis.