Cannon Characteristics

[Nordsvard]

I've compiled a list of all the characteristics of the guns I could find using a couple pages (found at end of post) to put them all in one neat little package for anyone, like myself, who just want's more information than the game's three stats give you. As near as I can tell all information is complete and up to date as of this post, but if I am mistaken, please let me know. Any new information you have to provide is apreciated to, thanks!

 

Link to GoogleSheets containg cannon list

 

Post by user jodgi on cannon reload times

Unofficial Wiki page on cannon stats

[jodgi]

I love stuff like this, don't stop.

[mirror452]

Something with the penetration is odd... Am I too silly to read or do Carronades have higher penetration than same caliber guns? If yes... Why? Penetration is determined by kinetic energy, which is determined by mass and velocity. Mass are the same for same caliber, and Carronades' distinctive feature is a low muzzle velocity. So shouldn't their penetration values be considerably less than those of medium or long cannons?

 

Edit: marked important part some people seem to have overlooked

Edited January 6, 2016 by mirror452

[Nordsvard]

Something with the penetration is odd... Am I too silly to read or do Carronades have higher penetration than same caliber guns? If yes... Why? Penetration is determined by kinetic energy, which is determined by mass and velocity. Mass are the same for same caliber, and Carronades' distinctive feature is a low muzzle velocity. So shouldn't their penetration values be considerably less than those of medium or long cannons?

I'm not exactly sure. The only thing I could think would be because they are different gun classes they are weighted in game to make them certain strengths. You are very correct and in a real life application, I'd assume a 12lb carronade would have less penetration, being a lighter powder load. Unfortunately, it's not my data and I can not attest to its full validity. Perhaps a developer could shed some light on it.

[jodgi]

I'd love to see the source on pen values.

[Nordsvard]

Error on the google sheet? Medium 24 listed as 84s for double, seems to be intended as 94 (consistency, and from static image in second link)

Yes, it is indeed, thank you, edited.

I'd love to see the source on pen values.

As would I, after some playing around I'm starting to question most of them. Not sure how to rate it myself. Although, I have notices carronades tend to bounce more than other types. Which, would be accurate in realistic terms. If I could find a way to track down who posted it on the page, I'd like to ask them where and when the information was attained, but I haven't been able to as of yet. Maybe someone more familiar than I could.

[CommodoreWesley]

Jodgi, you can always just go into the game files and look yourself, Steam>SteamApps>common>Naval Action>Database>DesignModel>Modules.  

 

To open the XML file, just need to open it with a word processor, like Wordpad.

 

It's really easy, of course.  Just read the lines of code, which XML is both readable for both computers and people, just that there are a lot of < and > signs in it, and a bit of scrolling to find the one item of information you want to find in it.

[Nordsvard]

Jodgi, you can always just go into the game files and look yourself, Steam>SteamApps>common>Naval Action>Database>DesignModel>Modules.  

 

To open the XML file, just need to open it with a word processor, like Wordpad.

 

It's really easy, of course.  Just read the lines of code, which XML is both readable for both computers and people, just that there are a lot of < and > signs in it, and a bit of scrolling to find the one item of information you want to find in it.

Thank you, much appreciated!

[jodgi]

The pen/armor thickness numbers are kinda useless unless you know the rest of the math. Santi side armor thickness 450 vs 42lbs long pen 300...

I wish I knew the details of how it works.

[Ink]

The data stored in the client might be way outdated and can't be seen as viable resource. As developers mentioned a couple of times in the past, all game logic is server based.

[admin]

The pen/armor thickness numbers are kinda useless unless you know the rest of the math. Santi side armor thickness 450 vs 42lbs long pen 300...

I wish I knew the details of how it works.

 

These you can safely ignore. A lot of numbers in the client are very outdated as systems were reworked multiple times after sea trials 1.

[Allons!]

 Penetration is determined by kinetic energy, which is determined by mass and velocity. Mass are the same for same caliber, and Carronades' distinctive feature is a low muzzle velocity. So shouldn't their penetration values be considerably less than those of medium or long cannons?

 

Yes & no. Carronades have higher caliber/higher mass then corresponding med or long cannons. Thats why a carronade ball shot from close range can penetrate as well as a smaller ball from med or long cannon. Higher mass. The specific benefit of this low muzzle velocity/higher mass is (historically) that wood splinters deriving from penetration are bigger and more hazardous to the crew behind. The problem of all shotguns is that after penetration most of the remaining kinetic energy is lost in terms of terminal ballistics. Ingame you will notice that lang cannon shot very often penetrate both sides and so do double damage.

 

Best, Allons!

[Nordsvard]

Yes & no. Carronades have higher caliber/higher mass then corresponding med or long cannons. Thats why a carronade ball shot from close range can penetrate as well as a smaller ball from med or long cannon. Higher mass. The specific benefit of this low muzzle velocity/higher mass is (historically) that wood splinters deriving from penetration are bigger and more hazardous to the crew behind. The problem of all shotguns is that after penetration most of the remaining kinetic energy is lost in terms of terminal ballistics. Ingame you will notice that lang cannon shot very often penetrate both sides and so do double damage.

 

Best, Allons!

 

That's very insightful! I hadn't thought about it that way. Perhaps the penetration values are representative of that? Being the carronades woul make much larger diameter impacts?

[mirror452]

Yes & no. Carronades have higher caliber/higher mass then corresponding med or long cannons. Thats why a carronade ball shot from close range can penetrate as well as a smaller ball from med or long cannon. Higher mass. The specific benefit of this low muzzle velocity/higher mass is (historically) that wood splinters deriving from penetration are bigger and more hazardous to the crew behind. The problem of all shotguns is that after penetration most of the remaining kinetic energy is lost in terms of terminal ballistics. Ingame you will notice that lang cannon shot very often penetrate both sides and so do double damage.

 

Best, Allons!

 

Nope. The ball of a 12pd carronade weighs as much as the ball of a 12pd cannon

And penetration is not the same as damage done. Yes, a slower ball can, under the right circumstances, do more damage due to splinters... But we are talking just penetration here, not damage when penetrating.

[Nordsvard]

Nope. The ball of a 12pd carronade weighs as much as the ball of a 12pd cannon

And penetration is not the same as damage done. Yes, a slower ball can, under the right circumstances, do more damage due to splinters... But we are talking just penetration here, not damage when penetrating.

By "corresponding med or long cannons" I'd assume he meant class equivilent.

[maturin]

 

 

 

Nope. The ball of a 12pd carronade weighs as much as the ball of a 12pd cannon 

No one ever replaced a 12-pdr long gun with a 12-pdr carronade. They mounted a 32-pdr carronade. At near muzzle velocity, that will penetrate just fine.

[poison]

Yup. Caliber in this case does not translate. Carros, since they used less powder, had shorter barrels, and had different cannonball/combustion chamber bores, replaced cannons of much lower caliber.

Carronades had cannonballs and cannons made from the same company, so their windage was considerably less than that of other cannons. So they used less gunpowder, and had much shorter barrels, both of which meant less iron was used in the cannon, allowing for higher caliber carronades than other cannons of the same weight. While the range was shorter, it's not as bad as is depicted in most places; the subsonic shot of carronades wouldn't need to punch through Anything near the wind resistance as supersonic shots from other cannons. Plus, the short range didn't really matter until just before the ironclad era, when metal casting techniques became good enough that the accuracy of other cannons was reliable enough to out-range carronades. Yes, even the worst shot in Naval Action was better than the cannoneers of the times simply due to high windage and lack of rifling. And round shots, rather than aerodynamic shot.

While it doesn't directly answer the question, maybe someone else can piece the parts together. For the same pound shot, carronades shot really have the same at best penetration as other cannons. Unless the halved windage really does outweigh the drastically reduced gunpowder (think it's also half, but for some reason I want to type 1/3rd). Unless you're comparing two cannons of similar weight, in which case cannonball mass would definitely win.

[mirror452]

When I brought the topic up I was talking about the numbers in the spreadsheet. And I clearly stated that I was talking about Carronades with the same caliber as Cannons. Compare the numbers, and you will see that according to the spreadsheet even 12pd Carronades have more penetration than 12pd Cannons.

[SKurj.]

Inside 300 yds, the guns obtain better consistency in pointing (if not in dispersion) with the reduced velocity of double shot.

 

 

someone had mentioned double shot was not used in carronades... 

[Nordsvard]

someone had mentioned double shot was not used in carronades... 

They certainly did. I'll like the post if I can find it real quick.

But in short, well, litterally. Carronades are to short and thin walled to stand the pressure of a charge capable of propelling double shot.