Why I believe this game would be better as an Arena MMO

[Sir Madoc]

First and foremost I'd like to say this post may come across as pessimistic but please bare with me and consider the points I am about to make.
 
I had high hopes for Naval Action when I bought the game during the Sea Trials period. It was really nice to be able to fight other age of sail ships and there was always enough people online to play consistent competitive matches that were really fun and the game was addicting. I was always aware that they were going to release some kind of "Open World" aspect to the game, but as I was having so much fun in Sea Trials I never really thought about what that could mean for the future of the game.
 
Some people are probably going to disagree with what I'm about to say, but I believe it needs to be said.
 
In it's current development model I don't think this game will succeed to become a popular MMO. I believe the Open World model is a mistake and think that Game-Labs should reconsider the model before it's to late (aka released on steam). I believe Naval Action as an Open World MMO is just too ambitious a project for the small team that's working on it. If they kept it as an Arena MMO it would actually be far more commercially successful on steam (just look at games like world of warships for example who follow this same model) and it would free up more time for the devs to work on adding new ships and other stuff.
 
You might say that they have spent too much time on the Open World and it would be a waste for them to scrap it and revert back to an Arena MMO like Sea Trials was, in which I would disagree. Everything they have done to this point would not be wasted, they could use the scenery etc for Arena maps and the game would be far more closer to being finished. What they would lose is the GUI work and stuff. IMO Open World online games should be done properly or not at all. I've seen enough games that have tried to be Open world and really failed at this.
 
I know the game is still in very early Alpha but I am not going to sugar coat it. When I first tried the Open World I was sadly disappointed and I think other people felt the same way (just look at the numerous disappointment threads the mods have locked). Yes you can say the full game will not be like it is now, but lets be honest it's not going to be completely different. There will be features added and improvements made but it will still essentially be the same. My prediction is if they follow the current model the game will not be commercially successful and the game won't have many players at all apart from a small group of really loyal forum users.
 
Naval Action was a game I was really looking forward to but unless they scrap the Open World RPG stuff I think I will my Captain hat will be in World of Warships only (that game is alot of fun, just think what Naval Action could be like if it followed the same model). It's certainly not too late for NA to change its game model. I think its good that the Devs have ambitious ideas but commercially trying to make this an Open World RPG with a small dev team doesn't make much sense.
 
The way I see it is like this Devs:
 
A: Continue following the Pirates of the Burning Sea model and have the game be a commercial flop
 
OR
 
B: Follow the World of Warships/Robocraft model and have the game be a huge success.
 
 
Mods feel free to move the topic if its the wrong section.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Madoc

[Kookaburra]

I really haven't played much, but the Arena style gameplay did seem a lot more fun. Though I joined rather late and missed it, so I only saw videos. But I'll still agree with OP. 

[Sir Madoc]

I really haven't played much, but the Arena style gameplay did seem a lot more fun. Though I joined rather late and missed it, so I only saw videos. But I'll still agree with OP. 

 

It was extremely fun, there was always a full lobby you could join. The game had a lot of hype, streamers were considering making it their main game etc. When the Open World failed to live up to expectations and was not even 5% as fun as Sea Trials Naval Action kinda became irrelevant and a lot of people forgot about it. I remember paying something like £40 for the game which is a lot of money for an early access, which I'm not really complaining about but I don't exacly feel like I really got my money's worth either considering I only had about 2 months to play before they stopped the Sea Trials.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Madoc

[Guest raat]

Here's the thing.  Arena was "better" only because OW isn't even close to finished.

 

If this game goes Arena, it'll be just like any other game, and compete with World of Warships.  And will lose that competition, no doubt.

 

This game has the chance to be a truly special and unique OW experience if done right.  It'll never be mass-market.  Age of Sail isn't mass market.  But OW done right?  It'll be a legendary game that will give Game-Labs so much industry cred that they could do whatever they want next...

[Sir Madoc]

Here's the thing.  Arena was "better" only because OW isn't even close to finished.

 

If this game goes Arena, it'll be just like any other game, and compete with World of Warships.  And will lose that competition, no doubt.

 

This game has the chance to be a truly special and unique OW experience if done right.  It'll never be mass-market.  Age of Sail isn't mass market.  But OW done right?  It'll be a legendary game that will give Game-Labs so much industry cred that they could do whatever they want next...

 

I think this "special unique OW experience" is a pipe dream. It will not happen and the game will have hardly any players. If it went Arena it could be very popular. As for competing with Word of Warships, it wouldn't have to. People would play both because Naval Action is age of sail and World of Warships is WW2. They would both offer a unique experience and would compliment each other. Trying to be a Pirates of the Burning Sea with better graphics is a bad strategy in my opinion. It will be very hard to do OW properly with a small team and no funding.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Madoc

[Guest raat]

I think this "special unique OW experience" is a dream. It will not happen and the game will have hardly any players.

 

 

 

Bro, you see the future?    What's tonight's winning lotto numbers?

 

Whether this game becomes popular will absolutely depend on the quality of the end product.  A good, unique OW sandbox PvP AND Age of Sail experience doesn't exist in the market.

 

They do that right and they'll get sooo much press.  People will absolutely flock to that because it hasn't been done well before...

 

Arena games are old hat.  And if it doesn't have the budget or the brand like Wargaming AND it's competing against them, it's not going to even come close to cutting into that market.

[PIerrick de Badas]

the games was almost "finish" in arena exept new ship and DM but all featurs of an arena games were in

you're now speaking about a 60% finished OW and compare it to a finish game ..

[Snoopy]

ST was more fun than OW, however ST arena also had a lot of churn. After the Santi grind only a select few die hards would continue to play. I really hope they can fuse these two elements together (or at least peaceful coexistence).

[Sir Madoc]

the games was almost "finish" in arena exept new ship and DM but all featurs of an arena games were in

you're now speaking about a 60% finished OW and compare it to a finish game ..

 

The gameplay was finished. But major features could have been added such as tiers, fleets, etc...

[Sir Madoc]

ST was more fun than OW, however ST arena also had a lot of churn. After the Santi grind only a select few die hards would continue to play. I really hope they can fuse these two elements together (or at least peaceful coexistence).

 

That's why you add countries, ship tiers, tech trees, modules etc.. Do you realize how many more ships they could have added if it wasn't for the Open World?

Edited July 17, 2015 by Madoc

[mad_blind_eric]

Hey Madoc,

 

I'm not if I agree or disagree with your logic and your argument. You may well be right that it would make more commercial sense to do something along the lines you are describing. I would however be desperately disappointed if that happened.

[Sir Madoc]

Bro, you see the future?    What's tonight's winning lotto numbers?

 

Whether this game becomes popular will absolutely depend on the quality of the end product.  A good, unique OW sandbox PvP AND Age of Sail experience doesn't exist in the market.

 

They do that right and they'll get sooo much press.  People will absolutely flock to that because it hasn't been done well before...

 

Arena games are old hat.  And if it doesn't have the budget or the brand like Wargaming AND it's competing against them, it's not going to even come close to cutting into that market.

 

I'll ignore the sarcasm and just address your points.

 

Like I said before I don't think this game will become popular with its current game model which is what this topic is about. An Arena Age of Sail game doesn't exist in the market either... They can choose either but the Arena model clearly makes the most logical sense. You say Arena games are old hat, well the same can be said about Open World games. As for budget you actually need a lot LESS budget for an Arena MMO game then you do for an Open World MMO. And no it's not competeing against Wargaming anymore than it would be competing against Pirates of the Burning Sea in its current form.

 

Hey Madoc,

I'm not if I agree or disagree with your logic and your argument. You may well be right that it would make more commercial sense to do something along the lines you are describing. I would however be desperately disappointed if that happened.

Have you tried the Open World? I thought the same thing as you until I tried it.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Madoc

[Guest raat]

 

I'll ignore the sarcasm and just address your points.

 

Like I said before I don't think this game will become popular with its current game model which is what this topic is about. An Arena Age of Sail game doesn't exist in the market either... They can choose either but the Arena model clearly makes the most logical sense. You say Arena games are old hat, well the same can be said about Open World games. As for budget you actually need a lot LESS budget for an Arena MMO game then you do for an Open World MMO. And no it's not competeing against Wargaming anymore than it would be competing against Pirates of the Burning Sea in its current form.

 

Compete against Wargaming's brand new World of Warships Arena game or compete against an MMO that came out in 2008 and is really only similar in that it's OW?  Hmm...

[smooshkin]

Tough to say. While I am inclined to be cynical and agree with you that it's an ambitious project, I am hesitantly optimistic that the passion the group has for the game will drive it to completion and success. 

 

So, my verdict is I am happy with wherever it goes and will support it the entire way to ruin or riches because it's a setting/period/genre I am also very passionate about. <3

[Sir Madoc]

Compete against Wargaming's brand new World of Warships Arena game or compete against an MMO that came out in 2008 and is really only similar in that it's OW?  Hmm...

 

I think you have missed the point completely. One is Age of Sail ships and the other is World War 2 ships. I don't think they would be in competition. If anything people would play both games and switch when they got bored.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Madoc

[mad_blind_eric]

yeah Madoc I've played it. Gotten myself up to Post Captain ( just ).

 

There is little to do bar combat at the moment which, especially if someone mourn's the passing of the large battles of the sea trials, is not up to the same level as a piece of entertainment. But I tend to look at the game and think forward a year rather than focus in on the now and I want to play a better more complete version of the game I'm in now not a more polished version of the sea trials. I think a version of that arena game would be fun, I think a fully realised OpenWorld MMO set in the age of sail would be EPIC.

 

That said.

 

They aren't in it for me. They are in it to make money and provide for their families. So, you could be right. I just hope you aren't

[Crankey]

SKIRMISH ROOM  planned - coded just not available because the Devs want OW features testing.

 

I think your logic is spot on for the casual player and that a WOT version will appeal to those with limited time or absolutely no interest in trading, fleet manouvres in the high seas, fighting for ports etc. Personally I would prefer the OW with its depth of play.

 

Why not allow players both, once the mechanics are in place it just becomes a matter of choice for the players to play one or the other on the load-in screen, or to play both with seperate development paths. (eg you cant blitz skirmish and suddenly appear on the OW with a Santi. keep the two careers seperate)

 

The Skirmish model would also be useful for OW player to practice tactics without their OW vessels being at risk etc etc.

[BungeeLemming]

I am quite happy to not play another "World of Sailships" kind of game.

Arena was all nice and good. But it was always the same for no real reason behind it.

 

Also there was a open poll where the community voted very desicive for an OpenWorld to be developed

 

Maybe you have a look at the next few iterations and check out what changed and improved. New content etc.

What this small team is doing is really astonishing.

And I have faith in the OW to become a success.

[Charles Caldwell]

 

Posted by admin on 14 July 2015 - 10:43 AM in Open world discussions

 

Re arena games

 

Some people are bringing references to an arena game/arena games for some reason. We have no desire to make an arena game. Thats why skirmish is disabled. Organized warfare might come in the future as we said but it will be integrated into the open world. And we have nothing in common with arena games and never had. Our steam green light does not mention arena and we continue fulfilling our promise for voters who got us on steam.

 

I think this puts pay to the idea of making this game arena based!

[Black Boots]

It seems that many on this forum need to stay away till the game goes live, you will likely be disappointed until full release and it usually takes another full year to work out all the mechanics and fully flesh a game out, the open world aspect is probably the single most important aspect for players staying on long term, so it's not gonna go away nor should it

[Sir Madoc]

Also there was a open poll where the community voted very desicive for an OpenWorld to be developed

I'm aware of that. I wonder if there was another poll people would feel the same way though

 

Maybe you have a look at the next few iterations and check out what changed and improved. New content etc.

Will do.

 

What this small team is doing is really astonishing.

And I have faith in the OW to become a success.

Well I hope I'm wrong but just remember this thread if I'm not.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Madoc

[Sir Madoc]

the open world aspect is probably the single most important aspect for players staying on long term, so it's not gonna go away nor should it

Can't say that I agree with that. Arena type games can keep players just as well as RPG's. You just need LOTS of ships and stuff to keep players interested.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Madoc

[Theuerdank]

Open World development is the only gameplay i am interested in. Such demanded 'arena' gameplay is only a test for something interesting bigger and greater. Arena means a 'footballplace' with so called balanced teams, sometimes a holidaypark with similar attractions or a virtual boardgame with animated playing figures. Par example like Warthunder or World of Tanks. For the computer converted RC-models on a strictly limited 'board'. Thats not what i expect of computer-possibilities. Curiously in those other games the game-board or small sporting field is called map. I would never call something map if its only about 1-2 squaremiles. Its perhaps a place for softair matches, nothing more.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Theuerdank

[GrapeShot]

Aren't there already plans by the devs to bolt on an arena mode for people who are looking for a quick fight.

Isn't that what the unimplemented 'Skirmish' button was a place-holder for?

[Lord Hood]

I think that it would detract from the game immensely if you limited it to an arena style of gameplay. Should you turn it into that style, yes you may receive instant gratification however it would serve no purpose and you lose so much more. The skirmish mode shall offer some relief in this, however I think that a more in depth game (which is shall be when you are fighting for a given cause) would make for a far more gratifying experience than login and straight to the battle.