Your ideal long term gameplay

[Brigand]

There are many types of gameplay out there, roughly divided into PVE and PVP. But those two categories do not really cover it all, in fact, they leave a lot of room for interpretation and discussion.
 
For this topic, we should not talking about what will be developed, let alone what will be on the development roadmap anywhere soon. But still, since there are a lot of topics dealing with the far away ideas of an open world sandbox game, I just wondered what you guys picture as your ideal, long term gameplay.
 
So, what would you guys like to see, if this game was build especially for you. What components of gameplay (enomomics, fighting, exploring, societies, you name it) would be flashed out, and in what method? Feel free to describe your ideal game here. Just pretend the whole development team is here to build your perfect MMO gaming experience*... Do not feel like you need to accomodate the broader gamers community, this is about the ideal gameplay, just for you. (At a later step, I will try to summarize/condens your answers into a poll.)
 
Looking forward to the brilliant ideas you all have to share!
 
Cheers,
Brigand
 
*) The best product is generally a product that is developed for some identifiable person (say: Bob), instead of some fictional idealized group of customers that does not exist. Just presume you are that identifiable person and write your reply accordingly.

[Brigand]

(reserved for my own description)

[Chustler]

For me the main thing I would like in general, is a really great and fairly realistic ship combat.  No silly magic skills and stuns as in potbs.  Just Crew focus, rigging setups, crew proficiency, sailing skill, and some luck!  Great graphics and ship damage are a plus as well.

 

If there is an open sea, I would personally like to see a lot of pvp options but also a lot of options for deception and evasion to go with it.  POTBS was a whole lot of fun, but I feel that the gameplay had far too much magic and not nearly enough options for doing the very sorts of things that were done in this time period.  If there is an open sea environment like potbs for instance, I would love to be able to imitate NPC's to avoid being targeted.  It would be fun to be able to fly the flags and colors of other nations in order to evade attackers.  Perhaps if you got close enough and inspected a ship at close range you might discover their true identity.  Real world type deceptions of that nature would be very fun for many different play styles.  I think this would also make gameplay more interesting for the type of players who would go looking for prey (Pirates, Privateers, Naval Pirate hunters etc.)  Blockades of ports would be a very active and entertaining thing to do with these systems as well!

 

Edit:  The other thing that would make a huge difference for me is also ship customization.  I am talking about deciding how many guns, and at what poundage.  I would be in heaven if these customization options also effected ship performance.  I could have less guns, but more manuverability for instance.  If I am loaded up with guns and ammo etc, then I should have less room for cargo or crew and so on.  Customization of sail and rigging setups.  Colors and flags as well.  I would drool all over my keyboard if these options were a part of the game.  Of course this was the norm in real life as well, which is also nice.

 

There is a lot more I have in mind of course, but that's enough typing for now

[Thomas Blackwell]

- I would like the game to flow. Loading screens take away from the feel of the game. From port to open sea to battle or mission instances, I would like to see a seamless flow from one to the next. 

- I would like to be able to sit at my desk in my ships cabin and look out over the port in which I am berthed. (Much like EVE lets you spin your ship, and if you spin it just right you can see the NPC's going about their business inside the station.)

- I want to be able to walk around my ships decks and interact with my officers and crew to set them tasks and duties.

- I would like to see a realistic punishment system aboard. Crew get into fights or rows depending on their morale and I must decide on the best course of action. If I decide correctly than the morale of my crew is raised slightly. If I choose wrong, it is lowered. (In other words, mini-games when afloat.)

- I would like to see marine life. Dolphins, sharks, whales, turtles, etc.

- I would like to hear my officers and crew, as well as see them.

- I would like to see boarding action when fighting other ships. Be it PVP, PVE, or preferably both.

- I would like to see and hear music in game. A violin or other instrument in my cabin, songs being sung by the crew, etc.

- I would like to see a degree of ship customization. Over time paint fades, metals rust and wood rots.

 

A lot of this will probably never make it into game, and that is fair enough... But, one can dream.  Also, my ramblings are probably more suited to the 'things you'd like to see' thread than this one.

[BrutishVulgarian]

Long term, I would like the game to evolve and grow.   There is nothing sadder than to log into POTBS after 3 years and and to see the exact same opening and tutorial and interface they had from the beginning.   Don't let the crowd that has "figured the game out" keep it from changing.

 

In my dream, following  the Elite : Dangerous model of paid expansions culminating in some massive procedural world would be nice.   Also, multiple players on one ship would be a nice pipe dream, too.  And everything Theodore listed above me would be nice.   

 

In the over the top dream category, Shipwrecks, survival and raft building on some desert island.

[CompassRose]

So if I were King for just one day, eh?...

 

• A Complex Economy, where each industry was its own meta-game.
• A complex town model, where managing it would be its own meta-game.
• An open world of the entire globe for PvP and RvR.
• An arena PvP system for that 'need to scratch the itch now' PvP.
• An RvR iteration system that followed the historical timeline (ships built in 1794 would not be available for RvR until the map timer hit '1794').

 

Each bullet point can be its own post to go into the details of what and why I'm thinking.  But my overall philosophy is this:

 

This game is first and foremost an MMO.  To that end what will ultimately drive the game forward will be the state of the community.  In order to have a good community, you need to retain the community.  That way the names you see begin to become familiar, rather than a regular turnover of 'fly-by-nighters'.

 

In order to do this, you need to devise a role for a wide variety of gamers, and playstyles.  That way, no matter your temperament or your preferences, the game has something for you to sink your teeth into.  Something that is dynamic and not repetitive.  Something that is time consuming enough, that dedicating yourself to it will give you a descernable advantage over someone who is just as talented, but doesn't allocate the time to progress through it.

 

[Spharv2]

I love the economic parts of games.  Not so much the trading/harvesting, but the building.  I played PotBS for a while, and I enjoyed being able to actually build ships.  My group had a nice setup, and we would get a list of ships we wanted, then I would figure up the lists of items I needed, we'd plan how to gather them, then I'd build it.  Don't know why it's so enjoyable for me, aside from seeing people sailing around in ships that I had built, but I liked it.  I would love to be able to own a shipyard in a game like this and follow the exploits of "my" ships.  Being able to customize for different customers, research improvements and upgrades.  Don't get me wrong, I'm going to enjoy going out and sailing, but the crafting/building aspect is what would likely keep me in the game long term.

[Chustler]

I love the economic parts of games.  Not so much the trading/harvesting, but the building.  I played PotBS for a while, and I enjoyed being able to actually build ships.  My group had a nice setup, and we would get a list of ships we wanted, then I would figure up the lists of items I needed, we'd plan how to gather them, then I'd build it.  Don't know why it's so enjoyable for me, aside from seeing people sailing around in ships that I had built, but I liked it.  I would love to be able to own a shipyard in a game like this and follow the exploits of "my" ships.  Being able to customize for different customers, research improvements and upgrades.  Don't get me wrong, I'm going to enjoy going out and sailing, but the crafting/building aspect is what would likely keep me in the game long term.

 

This is such a great example of different people getting enjoyment out of very different aspects of a game and I think it's great.  When I was in potbs I wouldn't touch the econ side with a 10 foot pole, I found it tedious and I just wanted to fight.  I think a great game makes both sides of that spectrum feed in to each other and they can both feel like they are having fun and contributing.

 

MY main concern is if a team this small can pull off such ambitious ideas!    Obviously some of the ideas posted in here are not within reach, but I would love to see this games development really take off.  Fingers crossed.  Does the development team have a plan for expansion of their team and effort if they start funding and money starts pouring in?  I would put some coin in for sure.

[Thomas Blackwell]

This is such a great example of different people getting enjoyment out of very different aspects of a game and I think it's great.  When I was in potbs I wouldn't touch the econ side with a 10 foot pole, I found it tedious and I just wanted to fight.  I think a great game makes both sides of that spectrum feed in to each other and they can both feel like they are having fun and contributing.

 

MY main concern is if a team this small can pull off such ambitious ideas!    Obviously some of the ideas posted in here are not within reach, but I would love to see this games development really take off.  Fingers crossed.  Does the development team have a plan for expansion of their team and effort if they start funding and money starts pouring in?  I would put some coin in for sure.

I believe the developers will look to raising funds and expanding their team once they have more content in game.

[masterofn0ne]

there was a time in my life that I played games like Everquest, or WoW, and could plan 8 hour play sessions with my guild. those days are gone for me. if I am lucky, I can find 1-2 hours a couple times per week.

so, my ideal game would be one that is accessible for the casual/intermittent player.

[PIerrick de Badas]

- A large map

- A large PvP area (or a 100% pvp area) into this large map to make people organising into convoy to protect trader and to increae piracy.

- System to decrease the ability for big players to kill baby (for example with reputation system)

- A good eco

- Ability for society to build towns or fortress which they control and wich could be lost for another society/nation. This town/fortress give bonus to the closest npc town.

- Rvr base on this new towns with town that can't be lost and society town tthat can. Nation will have to destroy fortress/society town to decrease bonus on ennemy nation.

 

Summary:

pvp pvp pvp

 

[Mirones]

having a higher goal then just yourself.

-upgrading a soc or a nations habour 

-patrolling the convoys delivering building materials

-resuply of a friendly habour or a fort

[SirThorne]

I would like a Realistic Experience with as much to immerse me in the world as possible.

 

-Realism within reason,

I want to see a world that players can shape, and interect with, but I also want it based in reality.

I'm sure everyone agrees, we don't need any rediculous fantasy elements.

That said, perhaps an event on halloween or something could allow for some fun. (just make sure all the players aren't dressed as zombies in mid-july.)

 

-Combat should be immersive,

I'd like a system that mimics reality in where it can.

Surrender should be preferable to sinking for a Captain in the navy, but perhaps not a pirate.

That said, it should have consequences.

Boarding actions were common place in history, so they shouldn't be ignored, and taking a ship a prize should be rewarding.

 

-Pirates should be pirates.

They should operate realisticly, hunting merchant vessals, and serving as privateers, not waging war against nations.

I would like a system that measures each ports attitude towards pirates, so that neglegted ports will gradually become pirate havens.

These ports should still function as national ports, but would allow pirates temporary refuge until the navy lays down the law.

 

-An open world,

I would prefer to see a world ruled by common sense, and not flagged zones.

Want to take your first rate across the atlantic? Go for it, but don't expect it to be a good use of your time.

Want to attack that merchant you just spotted over the horizon? Go for it, but watch out for the escorts you can't see yet.

Want to steal that 74 gun line ship.? Go for it, but have fun trying to crew it, and have fun splitting your profits 500+ ways.

 

-A changing world,

Allegiances in this time period shifted, and they should shift here.

A pirate who avoids angering his home nation should be able to get a letter of marque, but once that war is over, its no good.

Players should not directly influence who fights who, but should be the driving force in stratigic, and economic war efforts.

 

-Be a captain,

I don't want to play as a ship, I want to be its captain, and as such, I'd like an avatar in the world.

Players should be able to walk around on deck, or in the captain's cabin, perhaps even on each others ships.

I'd like my crew to feel alive, and as was suggested earlier, some music could help that.

My crew should gain experience and discipline/morale should be important factors.

 

 

In any case, I love the ideas I've seen, and the depth the developers are going for.

If even a few of these things made it into the game, I would be ecstatic.

[Bobbydylan]

I just want to sit in my captains cabin and watch the port of London out my windows....

[Flip]

Risk and reward gameplay! Make sinking mean something!

[Baggywrinkle]

Examples of my ideal gameplay a few years down the line...?

Cursing the wind shift that means, with the tide on the turn, I'll have to stay well off Start Point and won't be able to lay Dartmouth until after the merchant whose goods fill my ketch has shut up shop for the night. So much for a full day alongside tomorrow checking out the shakes in the maintop. The rot's set in, not sure she'll stand another blow like last week...maybe time to see about scrounging a 'new' one until this shipment is paid for and I can have a word with my favoured shipwrights just down the way in Salcombe...

Or maybe using the last of the summer evening light, ebb tide and gentlest breath of wind to navigate out of Treguier. It'll be a slow night to our rendezvous station with the indiaman we've heard is carrying a few 'spare' casks of rum, but the phosphorescence and promise of moonlight to illuminate our lofty lug t'gallants means it should be a pleasant one... Were it not for the customs cutter that found us under their lee at daybreak as we made for Douarnanez. Having your fore and main halyards shot apart is no fun.

* I would like to describe the battle we just endured, but sadly gun tire has destroyed my hearing for the time being, adrenaline makes it rather tricky to speak or write coherently, and I really need to have the steward get whoever's blood this is out of my trousers.

You get the idea - depth, realism and immersion for all walks of the nautical life. Please :-)

Baggy

[Marion van Ghent]

For my part, the only long-term play I hope for is the ability to create and participate in battle scenarios along the lines of what was possible with AoSII  I don't need or particularly want an MMO or an immersive single-player world (though I wouldn't object to free-form solo play as was the old Pirates! purview). With a decent sailing model and an infinite number of scenarios at my fingertips I'd get years of good play out of Naval Action. Heck, I wouldn't even mind solo 'fleet battles' if the AI is up to the task.

 

Not that I have anything against an MMO or RPG or the like -- I just may leave those aspects of the game for others to enjoy.

[tater]

I would like an RPG, in addition to just battles (though the latter trumps the former). RPG though requires I follow one guy, and he is not magical (immortal). Most MMOs seem to act as if it is somehow "roleplaying" to have a guy that is invulnerable. "Fear of death" absolutely changes player behavior. Admin posted that too high a penalty discourages PvP. I frankly don;t see how that matters, since any character in this game will be required to set sail to do whatever they do. It;s not like there is a ship simulator, and a concurrent haberdashery simulator so that some people can stay away from PvP. If you are at sea, you are exposed to danger from other players. Might some decide to run away? Good luck with that (penalize disconnecting by having the AI run their ship once an engagement starts, what happens, happens). I know it won't happen, but there is a false sense that it is draconian to have dead is dead, when since the game is not "level" based, there is really not much to lose as every character will start with some skills, and is of rank to have a ship.

[maturin]

Yeah, that's sort of a good point.

 

Harsh penalties for death in POTBS turned a lot of people away from PvP... but only because the rest of the game was so safe.

 

If I have to put my life in danger every time I set sail, I will learn to live with danger and risk. There won't be that huge step from total safety with a PvE flag to deadly PvP.

 

It would be good to make fights easy to survive or run away from. If ships are hard to sink and tend to disable each other in combat, the losing party could often slink away, especially in group combat.

[tater]

Yeah, that's sort of a good point.

 

Harsh penalties for death in POTBS turned a lot of people away from PvP... but only because the rest of the game was so safe.

 

If I have to put my life in danger every time I set sail, I will learn to live with danger and risk. There won't be that huge step from total safety with a PvE flag to deadly PvP.

 

It would be good to make fights easy to survive or run away from. If ships are hard to sink and tend to disable each other in combat, the losing party could often slink away, especially in group combat.

Absolutely. Ships were rarely intentionally sunk, and rarely sank immediately as the result of even severe battering. Sometimes prizes would sink in storms after bad damage, but that's partially because they would be so very undermanned (and badly damaged).

 

Sinking should be unlikely. Aside from whatever chance of grape or sharpshooters (or just a ball) killing your guy, most would be survivable. Given the assumption that players are Hornblowers, they can have a great chance of escaping capture, surviving, etc.

 

An old board game, Star Fleet Battles, had rules for "Legendary Crew." You'd have a legendary Captain (think "Kirk," obviously), and the rule said that in addition to some bonuses he got, if his ship was destroyed, there was a tiny % chance (like a 3 on 3d6) that he not only lives, but takes over complete control of the nearest enemy ship As the rules said, "That's what legends are made of." (something like that, haven't looked at the rules in decades ).

 

Running away is trickier given the short engagement ranges. The 2-3 km makes sense under the understanding that you know they are hostile and want to bring them to battle. Seems like you'd want to have them visible under compression at whatever distance works for relative mast heights, and let the skippers decide to close, run, etc from there. Running all the time would be SOP for any merchant, for example. You see a strange sail… that's a bad thing

[Baggywrinkle]

I don't think it was the PvP failure penalty that was the problem, but more that failure was pretty guaranteed. If you tried pre-50 you'd not have a hope, so most players initial experience of PvP was getting ganked before they were willing and able. After that they got hammered whilst learning what fittings to use, and then again whilst they learn the best order to use their skills, and again whilst they find a good group to sail with. People made it and enjoyed it, but am awful lot fell by the wayside.

So I'm with making the world consistently scary and dangerous, and think PvP is essential at all vessel, experience and skill levels. Tricky one to get right, but hopefully should be very well informed by the opening battle module.

Baggy

[tater]

The instant movement I think is a huge part of the ganking issue.

 

You can say you have to sail to X location, but really, a few minutes to cross the med is functionally instantaneous for a trip that might in fact take weeks. How many minutes should it take a FPS player to walk from Normandy to Berlin? 10 minutes? 20?

 

This might sound crazy, but I wonder if there is a way to make it…turn-based. For "strategic" movement, I mean. Every 10 minutes (or whatever) the server moves ships by X hours (more?) progress. You plot a course on the map, and during the interim time you can do other things the game models (drill the crew, chat with buddies, whatever---you are at sea in your ship, just sailing during this period, do whatever you like, take screenshots of the awesome sailing simulation). If your path takes you past another player at any point in that movement period, then at the end of that movement turn, people who came in contact (spotting range) can drop to real time PvP "battles" (they might be friendlies). Even if they fight an engagement that takes an hour, they'd only exit the battle a day or two worth of lost time.

 

I know it's a nutty idea, but WTF

[Lurken]

a large open world and you have the backbone for a longterm gameplay

[Cannonball]

Hello all,

 

First off, I am so excited for this game. I've been reading the forums for the past week and am still playing catch up on where exactly this game is at in its development phase. So I compiled a list of pvp and pve key features I've found gained a lot of good feedback. Here is what springs to mind as for what a great MMO open world pirate game should have...

 

-Day Night Cycle: Seems simple but it's the little things that bring a game to life. Pros and Cons example, at night ships have a shorter view range with poor accuracy and generally less efficient at sailing.

 

-True Sandbox Open World: I understand there will be limitations given the current CPU processors speeds, but it would be nice to see more than a dozen prefabricated land segments available for exploration. 

 

-Player Built Buildings and Structures: This one is important. Having a guild or a player build physical structures that other players can interact with is very important for breathing life into the ports. To regulate this there can be limited number of building zones in a village before it grows into a bustling port, in which it will unlock more building zones. If players fail to log in within X amount of time the shop closes, fail to log in X amount of time the structure is demolished and the building zone is available for purchase again. 

 

-Bounty System: Players can pay a port fee and post on a wooden bulletin board for Captains to sink a particular player for a reward. To discourage spamming the Bounty System there are a number rules that can be implemented, they have to had sunk you recently, two or more players must collectively agree to post a bounty, or make the bounty tax an expensive fee. Players who successfully sink X amount of Bounties gain a tittle, reward of some sort.

 

-Reputation: This feature can effect many things such as which ports you can go in or who you can buy sell from. Many games have covered this game mechanic but some sort of reputation/faction is always nice for building an allegiance.

 

-Weather System: A randomizing weather pattern that effect ship sailing and combat capabilities is nice. A great example we see in cinema is fog banks being used to launch an surprise attack.

 

-Vanity Upgrades: (Real money or  In-game currency)  Players can buy vanity upgrades for: Ships, Ports, and Captain clothes etc...

     Ships: a verity of ship figureheads, fancy lanterns, colored banners.

     Ports: Guvnors can purchase a verity of street lights that line the port, upgraded docks to look more presentable, proper structures and vanity items that a "well to do port" should have. Players or guilds that own physical structures can purchas the right to hang their guild flag outside their shop.

     Captain clothes: Nothing ground breaking here but a verity of hats, pants, boots, pets and so on.

 

-At Sea: These are visual events that again, bring the world alive. There should be whales, dolphins, sharks and all manor of sea life swimming along side or nearby for common occurrences. As for the rare moments, sea monsters and even more rare, mermaids (I know in modern time this is fictional. However at the time period this game takes place it was very much common belief that sea creatures existed. Further more this can be done in a tasteful way so that when rare events happen they look and interact in a realistic believable way). So rare that players say, "did I really just see that?".

 

-Crew Experience: Weather you have a crew of 30 or 300 it would be a great if you can follow the progress of your crew's experience in a log book. Each individual crew could have 10 traits rating from 1 through 100 in experience. As you sail and survive battles your crew gain experience, some faster than others and in particular areas. Players can shuffle crew around, promote and appoint them positions on the ship as Navigator, Gunner, Helmsmen, Sail master, Surgeon, Carpenter. These key leadership positions would only slightly effect the over all performance and efficiency of the ship so it won't be overpowering. But it would personalize the ships crew in a way to build a connection with gamer and the game. Of course there can be the auto manage option for the players less interested in these feature.

 

-Player Created Ports: Prefabricated ports are necessary for starter ports yes, and having a few key ports in the world that represent historical ports are essential. But if players and guilds can create their own ports for economic or military strategic power now that's innovative. The way to regulate this so that not one side of the game map is over populated, players/guilds can only start a port in given coastal areas and it's cheaper to start a port off the beaten path. That means have pre set spots of land along the coast that are "ideal" for a villages or towns or ports or forts to grow and evolve. Player ports can be sacked by opposing guilds or nations, and if unattended for long periods of time the port can eventually be removed from game leaving room for a new village to prosper. village's grow into ports, then cities and so on via the amount of trade transactions and the guvnors management of its infrastructure.

 

-Player Driven Market: Players harvest material, craft goods to be sold in a 90% to 100% player driven economy. The goods can be sold at a designated point in the port or out of a actual structure shop that the player or guild owns. The economy is used for ship building, ship outfitting's, repair and financial gain.

 

-Ship Building Experience: If a player/guild has been building a particular item multiple times they should be able to build a ever so slightly better quality product than someone just starting out. For instance, if you have a sail crafter and he has been stitching sails many times. He should by common sense be able to create a better product than someone brand new to that craft. To keep this from being exploited you make the advantage very slight, and the experience gained painfully slow. Other examples of ship building XP would be the wood worker or the metal fittings worker, cannon builder etc... In the long run it would be rewarding to see someone sailing a ship you or your guild built. Furthermore, your guild being known for producing top class sea worthy ships.

 

-Different Quality Of Material: Much like the ship building experience, this feature is sensitive to particular parts of the map. Some materials from different parts of the map are of higher quality than those from other parts. For instance, Oak from the Yucatan may have a sturdier thicker build then that of Oak from the Bahamas. What this does is gives incentive for players to explore beyond the popular location and looking for rare high quality material throughout the world. This would make that small Wood Farmer in the Yucatan competitive with the Wood Farmer in the Bahamas. Ultimately what you want is for ships to be sailing through the seas trading and transporting goods.

 

If it has already been discussed hopefully this sparks the imagination to revisit the topic with a different perspective. Thanks for reading and please discuss and add insightful conversation. Thanks.

 

-Cannonball

 

[Barberouge]

Hey exocrategames,

 

I moved your post to this topic. Might not fit exactly, but maybe some of the features you listed could be put into perspective relative to the long-term gameplay you'd like to experience.

 

As for discussing the features in detail, we usually try to keep one topic per subject, so that ideas and information are more easily accessible to the developers. You can find a list of the topics here.