SirThorne

I like the idea of fleshing out systems like port security, I personally like the idea of pirates operating out of national ports. They would need to maintain friendly relations with the port government to avoid a crackdown, but could offer some benefit to the port's profit margin or something as well. On the subject of Naval officers getting additional crew, it helps not to think of them as a separate class. I really think that might be the major stumbling block here, and admitedly my thread title doesn't clarify matters. (edit: For the record, you are right, removing the bonus crew would not break the rest of my suggestions. Meanng it is a detail that can be dropped if need be.) Players would enlist and gain extra crew during the time they remained in active service, but they would temporarily lose some economic privileges. Players who didn't care about Econ could remain in the Navy all the time, but other players could join up before major events to bolster their national defense. they would have a combat advantage, but that would only be due to their ability to fully crew line ships. Lineships in the system offer very little opportunity to make any money, so unless a port battle is about to start, most captains should be avoiding them entirely. (Unless they don't mind being completely broke.)

This is an interesting suggestion, and I think something like this would be a good addition, but I worry about forcing players to sail ships that they might not enjoy. I would focus on using the carrot rather than the stick so players get to feel good about the ship they choose to sail, rather than feeling forced.

Reading your other thread, I see a few interesting additions, but my knee-jerk reaction is to avoid anything that involves skill trees, as they nearly always lead to one or two viable builds with all others being considered useless garbage. I think at least one of my two previous posts suggests something that would do this, but yea, I agree with you 100% here. They should also be getting some Admiralty points toward fancy line-ships and such.

I think EVE is a really cool game, but I would be worried about creating too many incentives that put players at odds with other players within their own nation. (like chances to scam each other through contracts.) National unity and a shared purpose drive the wargame here, so you don't want to encourage too much recklessly selfish behavior.

Good point. Perhaps I am being too optimistic about the possible accuracy this would provide, but at the same time, one would hope that a player has at least SOME idea of their location to begin with.I would be surprised if the info on the F11 scene remains available after launch.

If you know where Havana is, and can tell that it's to the north west, than you quickly get a solid idea of where you are no matter how far away it is. it takes a bit of effort to gauge, but more or less allows you to know your location within a very small margin of error. If you simply travel from your capital to the nearest port, and measure the distance, you then have a scale that you can apply to determine your exact location on the map relative to the capital. This is effectively like having your ships location on the map, but requires a little bit of head math, and a few extra seconds with the map open. I prefer the simple method of hugging the coast where possible, and using the ports I pass as markers myself though.

EVE online is nothing BUT pitfalls, and that seems to be he way the community likes it. The economy thrives on the suffering of the ignorant, and scamming is not only tolerated, but encouraged. The most famous players in eve are the ones who manage to screw over the most people, or steal the most stuff.

It just seems to me that it is a fairly mechanical way to display the required information. It works, and still requires a bit of player effort to hone in on their exact co-ords, but it makes very little sense to give players a carrier pigeon's ability to find home at a moments notice. That said, it is worth remembering this suggestion if the issue cannot be resolved another way.

I think this is an interesting approach, and I appreciate its minimalism, but I would personally rather go another route.

At least this suggests interest in our genre of game. It is unfortunate that this game will lose appeal to the masses due to its lack of silly fantasy elements.

The combat is meant to reflect a skill based simulation more than an RPG with a full skill tree, and though I feel like your post is trying to strike a compromise, it adds a mechanical element that will end up feeling artificial, since skill trees almost always suffer from the same problem; There is always one mathematically optimal build, and people will feel obligated to use it.

I would certainly like to see smaller ships remain relevant outside of shallow port battles, and this is at least a start towards that goal. I think some thought might need to go into ways to encourage various play styles, for example, offering entrepreneurs who have a letter of marque to take missions revolving around disrupting enemy trade, while giving naval officers missions centered on defensive operations, and such. These would be optional, but worth a bit of extra coin for privateers, and worth some XP/Admiralty points for Naval captains.

This is a point I wasn't sure about, but it seems like the option to begin a naval career should be available from as early as possible. If not at character creation, than as soon as you are in game, from port. Please however, don't let it fool you into believing that you will be locked into a play-style based on your starting choice, as that was not my intent. Functionally similar effect here, but expensive maintenance seems more prohibitive to players than reduced rewards. since I propose naval officers get free repairs on their naval vessel (I'm sure this was suggested elsewhere actually...) it makes sense to balance their rewards to compensate. I agree with some of this, but (at least historically) naval officers DID get prize money for captured ships, and relied on that money rather than their otherwise sparse pay. Specifically, the crew changes I suggest should make a naval captain prefer to sail a smaller ship if they want to make any money, where they should only choose to sail a line-ship if they think they will be participating in a port battle or other major event. (the line-ship should offer much smaller rewards due to the crew receiving so many shares of each prize.) Half of the point here is that people may enlist in the navy at any time to help their nation out, but they don't get big monetary rewards for it. (just the occasional chance to sail a first rate.) Changing between the two modes of play should really be as simple as sailing to a port, (perhaps your capital?) to enlist in the navy, or simply resigning at any port where you own your own vessel. Naval officers should still be able to sail their own ships as well, but perhaps not be able to complete some naval tasks while outside of their assigned vessel. They should also be unable to bribe officials at enemy ports like entrepreneurs can. It might be more complicated for pirates to enlist as they would first need to get a letter of marque and get on their chosen nation's good side, but otherwise it should be pretty painless. I'm not suggesting disallowing players from sailing ships of any size. My suggestion is that crafters may not craft lineships, but anyone may sail them if they manage to capture them. (perhaps craft them for the admiralty as a limited resource) An advantage however should be given to a skilled naval crew in this situation, and as such, they would be the only class capable of fully manning the very largest line-ships. An argument could be made not to limit capacity, and I can still see this suggestion working without that limitation, as long as the incentive still remains to hire smaller crews. I don't feel like these tweaks limit very much for anyone, save for making line-ships a bit more rare, and giving people a relatively light nudge towards smaller ships. One major point here is to add variety, and not force all players into the same end game frigate or line-ship. I see your argument about making naval officers objectively better in combat, but I feel like this is less of an issue in the correct context. As the Naval career is something you can opt into at will, players can choose to enlist when the nation needs a combat boost, and leave when they feel they have contributed enough, returning to whatever they were doing before. These changes do give Naval officers an advantage against privateers and merchants, but it is realistic, and seems reasonable as they are choosing to focus their efforts into the combat portion of the game while losing out economically. Note also that the extra crew really only impact the largest vessels, and naval officers should not be sailing those most of the time. Ideally, the nation should have a balance of players in different roles with players enlisting in larger numbers to help out in port battles, and other times of war. The economy should benefit from having players who are not currently enlisted by allowing entrepreneurs to move goods into/out of enemy ports (mostly in smaller ships), and by other possible economic contributions to the nation. That was a well thought out post and I thank you for it. I have to say, after a > year long absence, I'm still a bit out of the loop on current opinions.

It doesn't seem that way to me, but if you would care to elaborate perhaps I can tweak the suggestion.

Opinions seem to be divided on the issue of character classes, so I thought I might throw out some ideas. The current system makes no distinction between a merchant, privateer, or a naval captain. This works rather well, since it allows players to freely choose what they would like to make their focus at any given time. The downside however is a lack of immersion in a specific character story, and a disconnect from the other realistic aspects of the game. I suggest allowing players an open system that mirrors reality at least a tiny bit more closely. Players should be given two options when creating a character; Naval Officer, or Entrepreneur. (optional) ---NAVAL OFFICER--- Naval Officers would start with a military vessel, but one of similar size to the yacht. These players would be assigned to a vessel by the Admiralty, and given free repairs in national ports. Players may choose to go on half-pay, if they wish to use their personal vessels. These players may also resign at any time from the navy, relinquishing their current naval vessel and becoming an Entrepreneur. These players should use military rank names. Points of Note + * Naval Officers may be assigned to vessels, including lineships. (but not everyone should be sailing large rated ships!) * Naval officers have a larger crew capacity compared to Entrepreneurs. (Bonus marines as well?) - * Naval Officers must still purchase their own high quality outfittings. (basic outfittings are free.) * Naval Officers must send ships to the Admiralty for a slightly smaller profit than a direct sale. * Naval Officers may not sail captured ships without Admiralty approval. (may request to command captured ships, must wait for response.) Overall Naval officers should have very low profitability due to a larger crew that must be paid, therefore, most should hopefully choose to captain smaller vessels. ---ENTREPRENEURS--- Entrepreneurs would start exactly as players start now, with a yacht, and free reign to go where they please. These players would be able to choose to sail as merchants, privateers, or pirates, in much the same way as we do now. Nothing should prevent these players from joining the Navy later, as long as they maintain good standing with their home nation. These players should use non-military rank names determined by play-style. (e.g, a max level character who attacks friendly vessels is called "dread pirate" or w/e) Major Changes + * Entrepreneurs may bribe their way into enemy ports to do business. (suggested limitations? smaller vessels cheaper?) * Entrepreneurs may command any vessel they capture, or sell it at will. - * Entrepreneurs can't buy or craft lineships. (but may capture them in battle.) * Entrepreneurs have a reduced crew capacity compared to naval officers. Entrepreneurs should have much higher profitability due to smaller crews, and easier access to resources. ---Crew Mechanics--- * Gold rewards in combat should scale down as your crew count scales up. * Players should have the option to hire as few sailors as they thing they can manage with. * Players should be rewarded with more XP and with Admiralty points for having the majority of their crew survive a battle. The gold scaling is realistic, as it forces you to pay your crew a portion of your earnings, while also rewarding players for sailing small ships. The option of hiring a smaller crew is essential as it allows the owner of a large vessel to sacrifice performance to save money. Finally, the additional experience and favor from the Admiralty discourage suicidal tactics that allow players to game the system by killing their crews to save money. (note that this tactic should remain valid for pirate captains...) I'd be interested in further suggestions and tweaks that people might offer.