Doing the math

[maturin]

For anyone voting RL or interested in significantly less time compression I would invite you to follow the L'Hermione as she sails to and along the US East coast. Also pay attention to the speed as it looks to me like she is averaging about 6 knts on the crossing. AFAIK even the ship speed in the combat instances (in sea trials anyway) is increased over RL.

 

She's doing a little better than 6, but you're right. And she's in the trades, which are the best-case scenario for good performance and steady progress.

 

Ships in Naval Action are guaranteed to sail around at their maximum attainable speed (plus 2-4 extra knots for playability). In reality they would only be at peak performance on rare occasions, completely dependent on weather conditions. When a captain brags about his frigate that goes 13 knots, he is really saying that he reached that speed a couple times last year when there was a freshening wind of 30 knots, a flat sea, a clean bottom and new sails. Most of the time he's plodding along at 4-7 knots, and if his is a fast ship, then he hopes that everyone else only gets 3-5 knots.

 

The great seaman Allan Villiers, after a sailing the Mayflower replica to America, pointed out that the incredibly antiquated vessel made the same average speed of around 6 knots as did the latter-day steel windjammers with their towering masts, sharp entry, great length and steel rigging.

[kaboki]

I estimate that in a Coni it would take 6 hours to go from the western edge of the Gulf of Mexico to the Eastern Edge of the map in the Atlantic Ocean if you avoid combat.  It might be quicker if you gauge the wind optimally.  Having not tried it, I don't know for certain.

 

(I could be wrong, but it takes 1.5-2.5 hours to cross 1/3rd of that distance)

 

That's not bad at all, when theres more to do in OW I dont't see that as a problem at all. If they plan to do some maps in europe they dont have to simulate crossing the atlentic, im okay with som fast travel in loadscreens to get over open seas.  Like the OW is now maybe time compression is a good idea, but in the future I think it could work great with real time, when more people join us and im sure we get plenty to do on our voyages... You could reach many ports around carribean in 6 hours hauling cargo... and if tired leave and come back when you have time to continue.

 

I ve spent a helluva lot more time in lobbies waiting hours and hours on battles(sea trials). Sailing realtime OW would be just a pleasure...

Edited May 19, 2015 by kaboki

[Justme]

Kaboki. Gotta respect your willingness to spend litterally weeks or months traveling in RL time.

[scepo]

That's not bad at all, when theres more to do in OW I dont't see that as a problem at all. If they plan to do some maps in europe they dont have to simulate crossing the atlentic, im okay with som fast travel in loadscreens to get over open seas.  Like the OW is now maybe time compression is a good idea, but in the future I think it could work great with real time, when more people join us and im sure we get plenty to do on our voyages... You could reach many ports around carribean in 6 hours hauling cargo... and if tired leave and come back when you have time to continue.

 

I ve spent a helluva lot more time in lobbies waiting hours and hours on battles(sea trials). Sailing realtime OW would be just a pleasure...

 

Prater is talking about current time it takes to sail on ow map not real time of sailing on actual earth, google maps shows about 1400 nautical miles from New Orleans to Cartagena in a straight line so 140 hours if you sale unnaturally fast going 10 kn average. That is almost 6 days of real time sailing. Real time is just not feasible due to a) you would see another player every second year b.) there would be no battles because you would have to chase for a few days to catch a ship. 

 

It now takes about 6 hours to sail that distance and that is just fine if you consider how much coast there is, it will take you hundreds of hours to see every single piece of land. 

 

What you actually want is to have ow sailing experience the same as in battles and that has nothing to do with real time but with graphics and server load. You are not even sailing in real time then but faster. Unlike space or dungeon style mmo-s where you go into next instance each time you jump through a gate or enter the next dungeon/area OW is all the same instance and therefore does not have the luxury of being as detailed as ship combat. That said you need to remember that this is early alpha and there will probably be a lot more improvements before release.

Edited May 20, 2015 by scepo

[Justme]

don't forget in my original post it would be much longer than 6 days if you broke it into play sessions ofa few hours at a time.

[Devante del Nero]

don't forget in my original post it would be much longer than 6 days if you broke it into play sessions ofa few hours at a time.

 

The thing I disagree with in the original post is not sailing when you're offline. I think if there were going to be real world sailing distances and time it would be critical to let your ship (or one of your ships, or one instance of your ship) sail while offline assuming you could plot a course for your crew to follow while you go below decks and nap for 8 hours.

 

But not to let it become one of those waiting games like the hundreds of browser empire builders where you get on and click a few things then wait a day for stuff to happen. You should at the same time be able to take your ship instantly into their 24 hour ongoing battles or switch to other ships for those or instant action. And also be able to take command of your sailing ship to handle npc or pvp engagements. The only tricky thing with that is handling the pvp, so would it be fair to let an offline sailing captain be attacked by online players while on their voyage?

[Justme]

That's the trick, what happens to your ship if online and the EVIL Baron Raymondo attacks( or anyone else really). Lot of people would be ticked to find the ship they been sailing for weeks got jumped and sunk near their destination while offline. But to have it travel in most cases while your only online would take forever, and if you get sunk it will still be a waste.

I honestly don't think travel in RW time is feasible for any but the most diehard sine fans.

[Ronald Speirs]

Time compression is a must, real life wins at the end of the day, taking weeks just to get anywhere is just going to push away players that love the game but don't have that kinda time to play it, quite simple really

[kaboki]

Kaboki. Gotta respect your willingness to spend litterally weeks or months traveling in RL time.

 

I see this as a game  that could last some years, so I dont need to build rome in a day, play some when time permits, continue where i left another day, when not at work or other real life stuff. I dont have all the time in the world either, but there gotta be a way to make sailing feel like sailing in the OW too, not just in the instances without spending a lifetime in this game...

[Ronald Speirs]

Found this which isnt a bad tool to see an example of real times at average speeds

http://ports.com/sea-route/port-of-veracruz,mexico/port-of-bridgetown,barbados/

[SueMyChin]

Found this which isnt a bad tool to see an example of real times at average speeds

http://ports.com/sea-route/port-of-veracruz,mexico/port-of-bridgetown,barbados/

 

Heh, 240 hours.. That's a good year of game play for some players, just to sail the length of the map once. That's not even necessarily a whole trade run.

[Justme]

Heh, 240 hours.. That's a good year of game play for some players, just to sail the length of the map once. That's not even necessarily a whole trade run.

Dam RL and resposibilities

[Doschichis]

Dam RL and resposibilities

 

Damn school, homework, quizs, and tests

Edited May 21, 2015 by Doschichis

[kaboki]

Heh, 240 hours.. That's a good year of game play for some players, just to sail the length of the map once. That's not even necessarily a whole trade run.

 

Yeah, but isn't the map scaled down? So it wouldnt take that long ingame even with time compression off..?

[DeRuyter]

Yeah, but isn't the map scaled down? So it wouldnt take that long ingame even with time compression off..?

Even so with say a 50% scale map it is 120 hours. I think the issues with too much map compression have been discussed as well.

[Prater]

This topic is kind of pointless.  The devs aren't going to implement a non compressed map.  If they were of that mind they would have done it awhile ago.  If they did, after a few days, 90% of people wouldn't play.

[kaboki]

Now after sailing a few hours in OW, I really have to say what I always have said:p, tune the time compression down please, even just a few notches, doesnt have to be "real time"... I have already started with a workaround,,,sailing with sails set to very slow in "map mode", but the others ships going at lightning speed around me and takes away a little immersion:p, quite annoying. Been sailing back and forth in my lynx from Christensted to the closest islands around and doesnt feel the map is to "big" and sailing time is to long even when going 3.3 knots... Seeing that distant land closing in slower speeds looks more "realistic"(3.3 knot speed) is really awsome. I refuse to start my warpdrives haha...

 

 Only thing I would need to pass time would be a spyglass, and possibility to see flags in "map mode" and this game would be perfect:D.

Edited May 22, 2015 by kaboki

[Snoopy]

Get out of the Lesser Antilles mate

Trust me, I had the same initial impression but give sailing along Puerto Rico and Hispaniola (and Cuba!) a shot. This is not small.

[Devante del Nero]

Heh, 240 hours.. That's a good year of game play for some players, just to sail the length of the map once. That's not even necessarily a whole trade run.

 

If you had to manually sail the entire distance yes. It wold only be around 10 days if your ship could sail automatically while offline. And simultaneously be brought into queued instanced pvp if nothing is happening while on the voyage not unlike queue pvp instances in many popular games.

 

I think it could work like that, the only question is ship's behavior and player vulnerability while offline.

 

The coolest thing about having such travel times would be a whole new kind player and community interaction... if it takes that long to sail great distances, chances are most people are going to operate in the open world in their chosen local waters primarily, moves into other waters being major undertakings. And making the momentous move of a couple weeks all the way across to the other side of the Caribbean would be like starting a new life. Guilds would probably be locally operating around a certain port or ports and the taking of ports would be of immense significance due to the amount of time it takes to gather an organized fleet in the same place and get there. The dynamics of it could make for a pvp world where long-sighted planning and tactics are brought to a whole new level in gaming. IF players still had plenty to do during the long voyages such as the queued pvp instances.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Devante del Nero

[Devante del Nero]

 

Edited May 22, 2015 by Devante del Nero

[SueMyChin]

If you had to manually sail the entire distance yes. It wold only be around 10 days if your ship could sail automatically while offline. And simultaneously be brought into queued instanced pvp if nothing is happening while on the voyage not unlike queue pvp instances in many popular games.

 

I think it could work like that, the only question is ship's behavior and player vulnerability while offline.

 

The coolest thing about having such travel times would be a whole new kind player and community interaction... if it takes that long to sail great distances, chances are most people are going to operate in the open world in their chosen local waters primarily, moves into other waters being major undertakings. And making the momentous move of a couple weeks all the way across to the other side of the Caribbean would be like starting a new life. Guilds would probably be locally operating around a certain port or ports and the taking of ports would be of immense significance due to the amount of time it takes to gather an organized fleet in the same place and get there. The dynamics of it could make for a pvp world where long-sighted planning and tactics are brought to a whole new level in gaming. IF players still had plenty to do during the long voyages such as the queued pvp instances.

 

Sounds boring as hell and what about those players who don't want to pvp constantly? They have to sit for 4 days and do nothing...? I'm glad it's never going to happen.

[Schuetzengel]

Now after sailing a few hours in OW, I really have to say what I always have said:p, tune the time compression down please, even just a few notches, doesnt have to be "real time"... I have already started with a workaround,,,sailing with sails set to very slow in "map mode", but the others ships going at lightning speed around me and takes away a little immersion:p, quite annoying. Been sailing back and forth in my lynx from Christensted to the closest islands around and doesnt feel the map is to "big" and sailing time is to long even when going 3.3 knots... Seeing that distant land closing in slower speeds looks more "realistic"(3.3 knot speed) is really awsome. I refuse to start my warpdrives haha...

 

 Only thing I would need to pass time would be a spyglass, and possibility to see flags in "map mode" and this game would be perfect:D.

please sail to matthew town, then to port royale and back to lower antilles. and then sail that route again. in a lynx

[Justme]

Sounds boring as hell and what about those players who don't want to pvp constantly? They have to sit for 4 days and do nothing...? I'm glad it's never going to happen.

I dont belive it, we actually agree on something lol

[Devante del Nero]

Sounds boring as hell and what about those players who don't want to pvp constantly? They have to sit for 4 days and do nothing...? I'm glad it's never going to happen.

 

I suppose it wouldn't have to necessarily be pvp instances, some games also have queued missions and "dungeons" or for the sake of Naval Action perhaps cooperative pve campaigns. And it certainly would only take a few hours to very thoroughly patrol waters around a port particularly operating on a somewhat shrunken map area, or to sail to a neighboring port.

 

But understand I intend to play devil's advocate, because though I do find the kind of mechanic used by PotBS, Sid Meyer's Pirates and every sailing game I've played (that is, a greatly shrunken Caribbean with enhanced sail times) working and adequate... I don't believe any of these games have been more than moderate successes and short-lived. And the graphic elements and more realistic combat mechanics will make Naval Action something different in a flesh-deep capacity, but this idea of real distance would have the potential for a very deeply unique experience -- risky to be sure but then all untrod ground is in game development.

 

In any case I understand the developers aren't attempting this route and I don't disagree that it would be work to make it not a boring waiting game like the original Eve where you would click your production then wait for it all to happen or similarly like many basic browser mmos.

[Prater]

What is the point of sailing if we aren't actually sailing but having our ship go in a direction while we play arena pvp?  The game would be short lived if you had to sail that long.  It isn't going to happen.  The devs would have gone that route already if it was.