Sir_Wiener_Von_Snitzel Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 So Fire and explosions will soon be in the game , and the Damage model 4.0 system is also on it ways. I was just wondering when we will se holes in the ship, insted of these "holes" stickers thingys that is used now? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William the Drake Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Is that screenshot from Empire: Total War? Large holes would definitely be interesting. Would it mean that crew would be more susceptible to injury/anti-personnel shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoRossolini Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I believe that the damage model recognises the existence of large holes in your hull already (hence why your ship fills with water even though your hull is okay and there aren't any leaks), they just aren't modelled visually. The same with crew damage, I believe that whilst grape fired at a crew with full hull is useless, grape fired at a crew with a significantly damaged hull can be lethal (though simple ball shot is still better, grape need a lot of work currently). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 It is very costly and time consuming. If Naval Action will feature 100 ships and I am certain they will, there is no way each ship will be manually modeled to Empire, Total War standards. How many ships does that game have? It would be nice indeed. Instead, I would like to see more variety in ship sinking and debris on water though: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 It was discussed before.. Based on the admiralty drawings of ship damage after Trafalgar there were no examples of damage that exist in Total war. There were no large gaps or huge openings. Even for ships that saw a lot of action. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 It was discussed before.. Based on the admiralty drawings of ship damage after Trafalgar there were no examples of damage that exist in Total war. There were no large gaps or huge openings. Even for ships that saw a lot of action. Agree, those holes look like they were made by a torpedo. The only thing I can suggest that can visually improve the damage look is adding a tessellation layer. Wood deformation after impact. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) How it is in game is better than the Total War games. There was a Naval Realism mod for NTW that changes the damage to how Game Labs does it. Edited March 17, 2015 by Prater 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Wiener_Von_Snitzel Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Those videos where very cool, and i now realize that the stickers in game actually works very well, maybe i just feel like the huge smoke cloud after getting hit by one cannon ball should make a bigger hole. if i use santi or vic, and get hit by one cannon ball, it makes enough smoke to cover half the ship, and all these videos show no smoke but just splinters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 O'Brian spoke often of gun ports that were stove in, where a couple of ports were merged into a single port due to damage, was this just fictional fluff? I'm asking seriously, because I know the Developers have access to a lot of great historical material that I haven't seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osseon Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Agree, those holes look like they were made by a torpedo. The only thing I can suggest that can visually improve the damage look is adding a tessellation layer. Wood deformation after impact. Yes please! I think that would solve a lot of the sticker shock people are experiencing (huehuehue) O'Brian spoke often of gun ports that were stove in, where a couple of ports were merged into a single port due to damage, was this just fictional fluff? I'm asking seriously, because I know the Developers have access to a lot of great historical material that I haven't seen. I think I could see that happening after the battles that lasted half a day of broadside after broadside you often see in the O'Brian books, if the shots were impacting near each other. Maybe if the damage "Stickers" could merge into one bigger sticker if too many of them are near each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Wiener_Von_Snitzel Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) So after i read all these comments i went back and played, and enjoy alot more. Becuase i knew that is was pretty close to the real thing But then i found something. Its nothing big, just that if you hit a cannon, the wooden stickers also get put on the cannons, wouldn't it be cooler if when you hit a cannon, the cannons breaks made will not work anymore unless you repair? I know after half a battle 1/3 cannons would be destroyed, but if that was the reality thats what i want. and no wooden sticker hole on top of it Edited March 17, 2015 by mortenlnielsen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 The cannons do become disabled Ya, hopefully the wood damage decals don't get put on the cannons eventually, but I wouldn't mind it if this is on the very down low backburner. It isn't game breaking for me at least. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 What I just noticed, and love is that the picture of the Santisima's side has a gunport lid that has been hit, and you can just see the mark behind it where the hull is also showing a hit inline with the gunport lid's hole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 If you look on your ship when the gunwale gets hit, the hole will typically be on the other side of it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKPyrate Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 So after i read all these comments i went back and play, and enjoy alot mot. Becuase i knew that is was pretty close to the real thing But then i found something. Its nothing big, just that if you hit a cannon, the wooden stickers also get put on the cannons, wouldn't it be cooler if when you hit a cannon, the cannons breaks made will not work anymore unless you repair? I know after half a battle 1/3 cannons would be destroyed, but if that was the reality thats what i want. and no wooden sticker hole on top of it Apparently you were sailing your Santi with some quakers? What I just noticed, and love is that the picture of the Santisima's side has a gunport lid that has been hit, and you can just see the mark behind it where the hull is also showing a hit inline with the gunport lid's hole. Yep, that's pretty cool. I wonder, with the new damage model, will we see damage on the far side of the hull for shots that go through? If so, should those 'stickers' be different (more damage, more like the inside of the ships in these videos)? Also, any chance Admin could post an example of those Trafalgar Admiralty drawings? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 De Lotherbourg French ship captured during Glorious first of June - - this guy made a full sketchbook after a battle but only 1 of them is available online. note how high are they above water without masts supplies and cannons. John Livesay Temeraire stern damage after Trafalgar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIerrick de Badas Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 i should say that this pictures has been made by any english and probably not bye any french as any french know trafalgar is jut brit invention XD... By the wat, wood color on gun is really looking bad and mark the game as in alpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 By the wat, wood color on gun is really looking bad and mark the game as in alpha Such a minor thing makes the game unplayable for you. One solution is to take off all cannons from your ship and sail without them. Then you will never see this glitch. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP514 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Those videos where very cool, and i now realize that the stickers in game actually works very well, maybe i just feel like the huge smoke cloud after getting hit by one cannon ball should make a bigger hole. if i use santi or vic, and get hit by one cannon ball, it makes enough smoke to cover half the ship, and all these videos show no smoke but just splinters. NO SMOKE ??? because now days we use SMOKELESS powder......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Darric Vandhelm Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 NO SMOKE ??? because now days we use SMOKELESS powder......... Yeah I completely agree, it wouldn't be a very good experiment if the smoke made the filming pointless. It's often stated that during this period in both land and sea battles where judged by noise and intensity rather than line of sight not to mention line of sight signal ships. as the smoke drifted away, you could get a fleeting glimpse of the battle, then the admiral would need to predict what the sounds meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas aagaard Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) NO SMOKE ??? because now days we use SMOKELESS powder......... Now that is either a troll comment or you know nothing about guns. He is talking about smoke that show when you get hit... so the kind of powder used for the guns is irrelevant. Then add the fact that when using a 19th century cannon you use blackpower... using modern smokeless powder would be idiotic since that would make the test results wrong... And it would also be highly dangerous since the guns are not made for it... so you risk them blowing up. Edited April 16, 2015 by thomas aagaard 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kang Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I say leave the visuals on the minimal side until they are much closer to release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Two quick notes: 1. I don't think there should be "smoke" when a cannonball hits a ship. The ball isn't superheated to the point that it is going to cause a fire (which aren't implemented yet for shots that would cause one anyhow), and while there will be a spray of debris, etc. from the hit, it's not smoke, nor would it hang about. You can see from the video posted above that there isn't a smoke cloud, just a debris spray, which acts completely differently in the wind. The Devs may have a very small smoke puff to simulate the debris cloud, maybe there will be a suggestion to improve that in the future. 2. Smokeless powder doesn't mean no smoke, it just means LESS smoke. As mentioned, powder at the time was extremely smokey, and a ship firing into the wind should be shrouded heavily in smoke, making rangefinding difficult (firing a broadside was also sometimes used to mask the ship itself on approach to the enemy by creating a temporary smoke screen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Similon Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm happy with the current visual representation. While I kinda like the idea of sailing a horribly crippled wreck, full of holes, ablaze into a harbour, I kinda think It's a lot of effort to go to just to allow an apparently inaccurate (if potentially kinda awesome) representation. As for hits on cannons, I'm not bothered by it. It does make it kinda easy to see when they're damaged so from a gameplay pov, I'd say it helps. Yes, having a cannon literally knocked out would also accomplish the same thing, but that's extra work for no gain, on a minor feature. Sure, I'd be happy if its done eventually, but all in all, I don't see it making much of a discernable difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JnoAubrey Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Whilst it may not be the case that massive chunks were blown off ships in a single broadside as in the Total War games, certainly cumulative damage would result in gaping holes in the side. I'll look for more sources but one that springs to mind is Collingwood's letter to Marsden just after Trafalgar where he remarks on the poor state of the captured ships and the necessity of destroying many of them. In particular he says "the Santa Ana I have no doubt is sunk, as her side was almost entirely beat in". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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