Campaign Game details?

[ETF]

Any new Campaign details that have come out recently? Seems they are keeping their cards close

Really hope it has many of the fine aspects of Rule the Waves 2 but of course with decent graphics and models this time!

What is your "guess" on the first roll out of the North Sea campaign?

Thanks friends. 

 

[Wowzery]

Been playing Rule the Waves 2 lately.  So far, if its close, I'll enjoy it.  Ship building will be more fun for me in UAD, and the battles should be more impressive.

I hope they will have other nations go to war and not include your nation.  Its my biggest grip for RtW2.

[Jatzi]

On 7/27/2021 at 11:36 PM, Wowzery said:

Been playing Rule the Waves 2 lately.  So far, if its close, I'll enjoy it.  Ship building will be more fun for me in UAD, and the battles should be more impressive.

I hope they will have other nations go to war and not include your nation.  Its my biggest grip for RtW2.

Funnily enough that's changing in an expansion for RTW 2 that might come out later this year but more likely early 2022

[Stormnet]

Sorry to ping you @Nick Thomadis

but I have to ask when will we really get to know more about the campaign.

I dont want to sound passive-agressive, but I am at a point where, as a paying customer, I want... no, I demand to know more about the status of the campaign and how will it work.

The last time someone asked this was mid June on this post:

The last time we actually saw a reply from  you about this was on a post I started on the 22 of April:

and it was basically "We'll share more info as soon as possible". At the time I was satisfied with the response, however months followed with no info.

Right now, there isnt much concentrated info about the campaign and core patch overall. Unless you dig deep into the forum and look for every comment, thread and speculation, "its gonna look like Rule the Waves" and those leaked screenshots and videos (and that is gonna save stuff) of the closed-alpha is all we really know about the campaign stuff that isnt already in the game.

I dont need to know everithing, as everithing is not done yet and is subject to changes, but could you show us some screenshots and/or descriptions about the stuff that is somewhat finished about the campaign? Doesnt need to be a half hour devblog, could just be a 5 min post of "This works like this, that works like that, and this is a screenshot of something".

I am not questioning the work you guys are doing at GL. Im sure pushing out this campaign is not easy, and I dont want to pressure nor look entitled. I really want this project to succees as much as you do. But I am starved of info about the future of this project, and communication on a early access is almost as important as the game itself, and reapeating myself, I really want some info of any kind about the campaign. Tell us something please, and not next year.

 

Thanks for reading this.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Stormnet

[Jatzi]

19 hours ago, Stormnet said:

Sorry to ping you @Nick Thomadis

but I have to ask when will we really get to know more about the campaign.

I dont want to sound passive-agressive, but I am at a point where, as a paying customer, I want to know more about the status of the campaign and how will it work.

The last time someone asked this was mid June on this post:

The last time we actually saw a reply from  you about this was on a post I started on the 22 of April:

and it was basically "We'll share more info as soon as possible". At the time I was satisfied with the response, however months followed with no info.

Right now, there isnt much concentrated info about the campaign and core patch overall. Unless you dig deep into the forum and look for every comment, thread and speculation, "its gonna look like Rule the Waves" and those leaked screenshots and videos (and that is gonna save stuff) of the closed-alpha is all we really know about the campaign stuff that isnt already in the game.

I dont need to know everithing, as everithing is not done yet and is subject to changes, but could you show us some screenshots and/or descriptions about the stuff that is somewhat finished about the campaign? Doesnt need to be a half hour devblog, could just be a 5 min post of "This works like this, that works like that, and this is a screenshot of something".

I am not questioning the work you guys are doing at GL. Im sure pushing out this campaign is not easy, and I dont want to pressure nor look entitled. I really want this project to succees as much as you do. But I am starved of info about the future of this project, and communication on a early access is almost as important as the game itself, and reapeating myself, I really want some info of any kind about the campaign. Tell us something please, and not next year.

 

Thanks for reading this.

I'd question their work. It's been 2 years since the game released in early access and Covid aside they had plenty of time to do campaign work and show us what it is exactly they were thinking with it. Instead they just keep pushing out these dumb academy missions. They abandoned the ship builder that was the major reason most of the original backers were interested in the game and didn't tell anyone until we'd already paid for the game. No information about campaign just that it's been the sole focus of the team for like a year now. Oh and when it releases it'll only be in an extremely limited state. That fact alone makes me question what exactly they're doing with the campaign because so help me god if it's just a string of missions like in Age of Sail I'm not playing the game. Having a RTW style campaign is what they advertised and it's what the leaks showed and it really wouldn't require a limited release with how it was structured, in fact imo that would hurt the testing of it. So the limited release tells me its no longer rule the waves style. If that's true the two reasons I bought the game will have been thrown out without telling anyone. I was still seeing ads for the discarded shipbuilder last year. For 2 years now people on the forums have been really polite and been like I know making a game is hard work but can we get some info or here is this bit of info that might help you with no responses. Question their work because it has not been good work. Literally the only thing this game has going for it right now is the graphics which do look pretty decent, except for how wobbly ships are in the ocean. That's it!

[Wowzery]

I'll admit, the interest of the campaign and ship builder is what drew me to the game.

[Skeksis]

...

Edited November 9, 2021 by Skeksis

[Kebla]

Guys, sorry for the silence. The campaign is ongoing, and that's the main thing we do now. The game is certainly not dead. The version you play is stable, so what remains a top priority for us is to provide you with the next Core patch which will include the first version of the campaign and many other features you have requested. When we have finished what we deem essential, we will provide all the necessary information and of course we will make the patch available.

this is the latest update I think

[killjoy1941]

Having a little experience with how these things sometimes go, I find the following to be likely speculative and generalized reasons for the campaign delay:

1. The initial design didn't function the way they envisioned it and they had to scrap and rebuild it one or more times.
2. The campaign design had serious issues functioning in Unity and they had to create their own custom code from scratch to integrate it.
3. Unity didn't have the some of the critical assets to build the campaign, so they had to create their own. Basically the inverse of #2.
4. Any combination of elements from the previous three.

Throw in pandemic disruptions large and small, and you get long delays. The reason we keep getting new ship design components is because the 3D battle portion of the game is functional, they know how to add more, and their 2D/3D artists probably aren't building the code. That means they can keep making components and the team can spend relatively little time adding them as they're built.

Also, keep in mind that the battle system isn't actually the core of the game; the campaign is the true core. Core Patch 1 is going to be the make-or-break game system, and they know it. All three of the following patches are tiny in comparison, and rely entirely on CP1 working as designed, with as few bugs as possible, right out of the box. Right now, we're probably looking at... much less than half of the critical systems needed to make the game function as intended, and the overwhelming majority of the missing content comes with the next update.

It sucks waiting, especially with devs who keep unreleased information close, but this isn't terribly unusual in the world of game design. It's also worth pointing out that Nick and the team have never once failed to deliver a finished product, and none of them have been substandard. Personally, that last point is pretty important to me, which is why I'm generally quiet here; they've earned quite a bit of grace.

[Skeksis]

...

Edited November 9, 2021 by Skeksis

[SonicB]

7 hours ago, Skeksis said:

Number 5. Life started off as a carbon copy but in 3D and sorta to be done with a minimal team, features upon results etc that kinda stuff. Then GL got a massive cash injection from StillFront, the light flashed before their eyes, thus all their wishes were to come true, i.e. lets redo everything! make it the big deal now - up the campaign to the next level - there was nothing holding them back then.

Not all delays are bad news and I really, really, really hope you're right.

Been burned more than a few times on early-access and kickstarter projects... but then none of them were taken over pre-beta by a deep pocketed pay-to-win mobile games company so what do I know.

[Dirlinger]

9 hours ago, Skeksis said:

Number 5. Life started off as a carbon copy but in 3D and sorta to be done with a minimal team, features upon results etc that kinda stuff. Then GL got a massive cash injection from StillFront, the light flashed before their eyes, thus all their wishes were to come true, i.e. lets redo everything! make it the big deal now - up the campaign to the next level - there was nothing holding them back then.

That has never, ever happened IRL..... If they had more cash + increased ambitions they would be all over this forum speaking about their new, improved vision for the product. You don't keep that kind of stuff secret. Some of the extra money would certainly trickle over into marketing  and community management. 

 

[Skeksis]

...

Edited November 9, 2021 by Skeksis

[Skeksis]

DELETED

Edited August 1, 2021 by Skeksis

[Speglord]

15 hours ago, killjoy1941 said:

Having a little experience with how these things sometimes go, I find the following to be likely speculative and generalized reasons for the campaign delay:

1. The initial design didn't function the way they envisioned it and they had to scrap and rebuild it one or more times.
2. The campaign design had serious issues functioning in Unity and they had to create their own custom code from scratch to integrate it.
3. Unity didn't have the some of the critical assets to build the campaign, so they had to create their own. Basically the inverse of #2.
4. Any combination of elements from the previous three.

Throw in pandemic disruptions large and small, and you get long delays. The reason we keep getting new ship design components is because the 3D battle portion of the game is functional, they know how to add more, and their 2D/3D artists probably aren't building the code. That means they can keep making components and the team can spend relatively little time adding them as they're built.

Also, keep in mind that the battle system isn't actually the core of the game; the campaign is the true core. Core Patch 1 is going to be the make-or-break game system, and they know it. All three of the following patches are tiny in comparison, and rely entirely on CP1 working as designed, with as few bugs as possible, right out of the box. Right now, we're probably looking at... much less than half of the critical systems needed to make the game function as intended, and the overwhelming majority of the missing content comes with the next update.

It sucks waiting, especially with devs who keep unreleased information close, but this isn't terribly unusual in the world of game design. It's also worth pointing out that Nick and the team have never once failed to deliver a finished product, and none of them have been substandard. Personally, that last point is pretty important to me, which is why I'm generally quiet here; they've earned quite a bit of grace.

These have been my thoughts for a while now. It's upsetting that the devs aren't more conversational and responsive here on the forums, but I'm willing to give them leeway for past products, possible issues with the code (after all, I believe it's their most ambitious title to date), and of course COVID. It also doesn't help that I'm personally waiting on a lot of other more niche games that won't see the light of day any time soon (Homeworld 3, Task Force Admiral, KSP 2, and maybe a few others), so I'm very insatiably hungry for stuff, even if it's just a few screenshots or short video clips.

My issue with the way people have been behaving on this forum is that some have been pretty blind as to the nature of the game. It's early access. If you bought into it even in 2019 (like me) you should know that buying an early access game is a big risk; no offense meant to the devs, it's just the nature of things. Games may be in early access for years, and may not even be completed at all. I'm not shilling for them, either. Like I said, I'm disappointed in the general lack of communication over the last few months. But I'm hopeful and I think the devs deserve some breathing room. You can't expect every issue to be fixed as soon as they're pointed out, especially with a game that is still missing what is basically its core gameplay mode. Some may bring up UBOAT as a comparison, but the game released with its main features already completed; afterward, it's a matter of adding comparatively smaller content drops, bug-hunting, and other such things.

[Skeksis]

...

Edited November 9, 2021 by Skeksis

[Dirlinger]

15 hours ago, Skeksis said:

Dicta Boelcke rule?

Maybe that’s not what you see but what I see all the time for games is, an announcement of development, a few years later promo’s and release.

What's different with Dreadnoughts is we just have a piece of that development, i.e. Academy Missions. So many can’t see that.

 

PS, you know GL didn’t actually get the dosh, only the backing, which still must be considerable. 

I suspect that we are talking from vastly different places of experience.

M&A processes and post M&A integration has tons of literature and research behind it. I was part of M&A processes in large companies twice in my life as either part of the company doing acquisition or a team assisting M&A integration efforts on operations. The people who work with this sort of things are NOT idealists.

[HusariuS]

I just hope the campaign will be similar to the campaign in "Pacific Storm" although preferably turn-based system.

[Skeksis]

...

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Skeksis

[Dirlinger]

22 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

Sure that probably is very important stuff with mega sized companies, but I kinda think with a team of 3-4, not so much!

You think wrong and really don't mean it disparagingly. Stillfronts growth is 90% through acquisition. They got position whose sole responsibility is M&A - Marina Andersson of Deloitte pedigree according to their webpage (no lightweighter in other words). You think they would drop their best practices for a company of 24 employees (3-4 may be the size of the UAD dev team and is not entire company)? No sir... I bet you there is Holy M&A and Integration handbook with plans and points and obligatory powerpoint presentations' and excel templates.

38 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

Just thinking out loud, as game creator wouldn’t you have to be some sort for idealists. Like you’re going to be creating never seen before content, with your personal artistry overlaid, be a visionary of what players might want rather than the fact of what they want, and then do it on the prospect of it all being dumped into the trashcan 2-3 years later. Kinda describes an idealist (utopian, visionary) too me, doesn't it. 

Game industry is not my field. I am consumer, using PC games as escapism instead of recreational drugs or drinking. Purely from software development or product development perspective (two vastly different subjects) you kinda need all personality types...

 

[Jatzi]

On 8/1/2021 at 4:33 PM, Speglord said:

These have been my thoughts for a while now. It's upsetting that the devs aren't more conversational and responsive here on the forums, but I'm willing to give them leeway for past products, possible issues with the code (after all, I believe it's their most ambitious title to date), and of course COVID. It also doesn't help that I'm personally waiting on a lot of other more niche games that won't see the light of day any time soon (Homeworld 3, Task Force Admiral, KSP 2, and maybe a few others), so I'm very insatiably hungry for stuff, even if it's just a few screenshots or short video clips.

My issue with the way people have been behaving on this forum is that some have been pretty blind as to the nature of the game. It's early access. If you bought into it even in 2019 (like me) you should know that buying an early access game is a big risk; no offense meant to the devs, it's just the nature of things. Games may be in early access for years, and may not even be completed at all. I'm not shilling for them, either. Like I said, I'm disappointed in the general lack of communication over the last few months. But I'm hopeful and I think the devs deserve some breathing room. You can't expect every issue to be fixed as soon as they're pointed out, especially with a game that is still missing what is basically its core gameplay mode. Some may bring up UBOAT as a comparison, but the game released with its main features already completed; afterward, it's a matter of adding comparatively smaller content drops, bug-hunting, and other such things.

It's an early access that falsely promoted a shipbuilding system that ultimately got scrapped for very inconsistent reasons btw. Was it because the AI couldn't handle it? Cuz there are easy fixes for that. Or was it because players would've thought it was too complex? Or was it too difficult to code? They've never given a straight answer for it. And they kept going with ads for it even after the release of the early access which is top level scum behavior. Early access means you listen to player feedback and respond and discuss the game. Sure they've listened to some feedback around combat: torpedoes are too weak, oh torpedoes are too strong now. Armor is weak, armor is too strong, ships don't die because bow tanking and whatnot. But they've ignored other issues that are baked into the system and would require some changes. It's fine if they think some ideas proposed to fix some issues were too drastic but say so. Say something, anything. There have been tons of people that were knowledgeable about naval warfare and irl ship design that noticed issues and brainstormed ideas about how to introduce real world stuff into the game, in either hardcore sim ways and in more arcadey ways. They were all aware that GL seems to be trying to toe the line between sim and arcade, a horrible choice imo gotta commit, and they presented ideas about how to gamify real life things in ways to fix GL's current vibe/balance. Nothing, no feedback. No agreement or disagreement, just players talking to a blank wall and eventually getting annoyed and leaving. People just want information, what's the vision now? Not blind hello kittying hope the campaign is kind of decent. If the campaign is so crucial to their development, talk to us about it. Get some hype going for it. They have handled this early access extremely poorly, if you're going to be dead silent, as of course companies often are about their games before release, don't go into early access. Simple as that.

They shouldn't have released the game without a form of the campaign working. When the game first released there was a flood of WoWs style players who wanted something similar to that and said so on the forums. The leaked campaign was not two years away. I played it, it was at most a year away if that. What I think happened is that they saw all the pure arcadey people and radically shifted direction then all those people left, who could've seen that coming, and they tried to backpedal. I know others agree with me, there were some hints here and there they were going more arcadey in patch notes, the language they used some changes they made. If I'm right that doesn't give me confidence, their team possibly imploding(?) doesn't give me confidence, them being bought by a mobile game publisher definitely doesn't give me confidence. GL has proven they can lie and present false advertising. 

Also, I'd consider naval action a subpar release. It's not a horrible game but it's vastly different from what they said the game was going to be and that seems to be what's happening here too. The key things people bought into, the ship builder and the RTW-style campaign, are either already scrapped or likely scrapped. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am. At least I learned a lesson, never ever back an early access game. Ever.