Dialects of English - Why do Brits insult the American dialect?

[Sir John Franklin]

 

Hi,

 

 

Nice pics .. 

 

However, .. aside from the obvious spelling mistake (missing an r (harbor)), .. please use the English spelling for .. Harbour.     .. i.e. Martinique Harbour.

 

... for historical accuracy's sake.

 

... the Americans really didn't start cannibalizing the English language until the mid-19th Century. 

 

.. before you know it ... we'll end up with an HMS Endeavor ..   .. instead of Endeavour. 

 

Cheers

Tom

 

 

From this thread here: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/3644-some-alpha-open-world-eye-candy-large-images/ (15th Post) I'm just wondering why do some Brits insult the American dialect of English, in saying it's cannibalization, butchering or outright calling it wrong. As a Canadian I take no personal offence to this but I've always found it confusing as to the aspect of why. There are many dialects of different languages and of course every dialect spells something or says something, the dialect differing of course by region. But you don't see French people from France insulting the way those from Morocco or Algeria speak, so why then are some English speaking Brits throwing shit at the American English? Whatever your reasoning is, why then are you not throwing it right at Canadians too? With the exception of a few examples we speak and spell the same English they do.

 

I just want to know what everybody's take on this is. 

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Let's please keep this one civil and friendly.

 

Languages in different regions tend to drift apart over time, as well as being heavily influenced by various foreign cultures that also settle the area.  This usually results in different accents, spellings, etc.  The effect, I believe, was far more prominent before the invention of long distance communications, such as the telephone, and radio and television.  One might see spelling differences in a letter, but in general the pronunciation would still be in the local dialect.

 

So let's step back a little farther.  People still spell things the way they sound.  It's possible the differences in spellings have evolved as the local cultures have begun to spell the same word differently to reflect the local accent.  TextSpeak is an interesting study in this phenomenon quite frankly.

 

In the end, what is "right", and what is "wrong"??  The English language has variations on numerous words that sprung from other languages.

[maturin]

Well hold on a minute. The French heap scorn on the French they speak in Quebec.

[Sir John Franklin]

Well hold on a minute. The French heap scorn on the French they speak in Quebec.

This is true, and is also why I didn't include them as an example. Although I dislike the way the French treat Quebecois as well.

 

Let's please keep this one civil and friendly.

 

Languages in different regions tend to drift apart over time, as well as being heavily influenced by various foreign cultures that also settle the area.  This usually results in different accents, spellings, etc.  The effect, I believe, was far more prominent before the invention of long distance communications, such as the telephone, and radio and television.  One might see spelling differences in a letter, but in general the pronunciation would still be in the local dialect.

 

So let's step back a little farther.  People still spell things the way they sound.  It's possible the differences in spellings have evolved as the local cultures have begun to spell the same word differently to reflect the local accent.  TextSpeak is an interesting study in this phenomenon quite frankly.

 

In the end, what is "right", and what is "wrong"??  The English language has variations on numerous words that sprung from other languages.

 

I do not intend this to be a what is right or wrong debate, just the question of why it happens and why some people feel the necessity to insult our their dialect. I do agree that this should be kept civil and friendly. 

[Lord Hood]

Alas I don't know if this is a thread that will remain civil and friendly because it's one of those topics that seems to just conjure up different emotions. I say this as an Englishman with Received Pronunciation (technical term for posh essentially) from London who was schooled very much so on pronunciation and the English spelling (I remember receiving a tirade from my English teacher for pronouncing advertisement in the American way, something I promise that I have not done since despite living in America for five years).

I believe that this is a stone better left unturned and that for the sake of the community we invest our time and conversation elsewhere.

[SirWili]

Naah, each language is meant to be abused. If it's not evolving, its soon a dead language.

Some years ago I visited London and spent some time on southern side of it. Just with that experience I can say that English language is not dying, damn the dialect was strange and strong. I wonder how they have enough energy to follow how other nations use their language and taunt bpeople about it, while they can't even control their own backyard...

[Lord Hood]

South London much as East London are the poorer parts of the city and the rhyming slang as well as the dropping of certain letters reflects that surrounding and after years of it has become ingrained in the areas. West London is the more affluent part of the city and the language of course is a representation of that.

[William the Drake]

The thing about U.S. English  is that there are numerous different U.S. dialects alone, much like the difference between a Welsh English and Cockney English Accent, etc. Just like The different English dialects originate from different languages (Welsh being its own, rather old language) however ours are more harsh transitions, due to the large span or ancestry and peoples that created the U.S. I live in Louisiana, and have lived in cities such as New Orleans and Lafayette. Due to the cultural influences of the two places alone meant that peopel from those 2 areas, while being from the same state still sound  very different. (This is due to Louisiana's, New Orleans specifically,  unique history of being in possession of French, Spanish, and English power before finally being held by the U.S.) These influences and blends show in the culture, art, architecture and definitely the dialect. 
This alone causes differences in spelling as sometimes we tend to spell things as they sound, and then some cases the exact opposite:

Example: The name Thibedeaux, is actually pronounced "Tib-eh-dow"

And lets not forget that Americans arent the only ones that cause(d) trouble with words. We say Loo-tenant (the way the original french spelt it) while English nations say Lef-tenant (the way the original French pronounced it)

Well hold on a minute. The French heap scorn on the French they speak in Quebec.

 

As someone who lives in the area and lived among some of the rather unique division of the Francophone peoples, how are the Cajuns/creoles of Central and Southern Louisiana viewed? I always assumed that they were heard in a similar way that U.S. speakers view the "country/redneck" twang of our more southern populations.

[Mitchverr]

US english is alright i guess, accents can be horrid or good like anywhere.

 

For the actual spelling however, the way it goes (or used to go till very recently ie techno age stuff) is theres English which the world speaks then theres American English which only the Americans speak XD

 

Kinda like how the US is alone in its measuring system with 2 other countries on earth and willing to even not buy/build tanks because they are not willing to join the rest of us (true story, WW1 friench tanks were denied due to being in mm not inch)

 

Its not to be taken serious anyway, its just a bit o banter/trolling in good faith.

[Rutger Van Hoorn]

For the actual spelling however, the way it goes (or used to go till very recently ie techno age stuff) is theres English which the world speaks then theres American English which only the Americans speak XD

My impression (as a non-native English speaker) is more that while the Queen's English might be taught in foreign schools, it's Americanized English that makes it to the actual conversation on the streets, due to popular media.

Just listen to any English vocals music, even coming out of Britain; The accent always seems more "American".

 

I do agree on the imperial measurement system. But I'd dread the day of changing over something like that in a country the size of the US!

[One-Eyed Willy]

"Why do Brits insult the American dialect?"

 

Hang out with Brits long enough & you will see them diss on not just American accents but other accents as well, including the differing accents within thier own country. They're just busting balls is all. Return the favor. A word of warning tho, Brits can insult you & you won't even realise it until 3 days later & then you will be like "Hey! That wasn't really a compliment at all! What a f****er!"

[Mavsta]

Wait till an Australian starts

 

Most of it is good old ribbing, although we ALL know the poms just like to whinge

[Portsdown]

"Why do Brits insult the American dialect?"

 

Hang out with Brits long enough & you will see them diss on not just American accents but other accents as well, including the differing accents within thier own country. They're just busting balls is all. Return the favor. A word of warning tho, Brits can insult you & you won't even realise it until 3 days later & then you will be like "Hey! That wasn't really a compliment at all! What a f****er!"

 

Indeed. We tend to extract the Micheal from everything, including (especially) ourselves.

 

But the quote in the original post looks like a post from a well known UK Internet phenomenon, the grammar (and spelling) Nazi. If the target of the comment were British the use of language would have been dissected with a micro-scalpel - without an anaesthetic. People have been burned at the stake over the use, or non use, of an Oxford Comma.

[Thomas Blackwell]

I'm English but I live in Canada. So yeah I poke fun at the Americans from time to time, but I apologize afterwards. 

[GreatScott]

I'm English but I live in Canada. So yeah I poke fun at the Americans from time to time, but I apologize afterwards. 

 

This is pretty hilarious.  As an American, I just take it all as jokes.  I've never had anyone say something like what the OP is talking about in any way other then a joke.  Maybe they talk behind our backs but whatever.

 

I also learned today that there are three countries that use the Imperial system of measurement.  I sorta find that funny because a lot of people like to use the joke about two types of countries, those that use the metric system and those that have put a man on the moon.

[thisguy]

 I sorta find that funny because a lot of people like to use the joke about two types of countries, those that use the metric system and those that have put a man on the moon.

 

Yet no one would have seen it if not for the crew at Parkes in metric Australia operating the radio telescope way outside its safety limits in 110kph [70mph] winds.

 

[GreatScott]

Yet no one would have seen it if not for the crew at Parkes in metric Australia operating the radio telescope way outside its safety limits in 110kph [70mph] winds.

 

Cool, another TIL.  

 

http://www.parkes.atnf.csiro.au/news_events/apollo11/

[Destraex]

This is pretty hilarious.  As an American, I just take it all as jokes.  I've never had anyone say something like what the OP is talking about in any way other then a joke.  Maybe they talk behind our backs but whatever.

 

I also learned today that there are three countries that use the Imperial system of measurement.  I sorta find that funny because a lot of people like to use the joke about two types of countries, those that use the metric system and those that have put a man on the moon.

And then there were the Russians who got a man into space first, the moon just being one upmanship

I also remember something about both cold war nations using stolen ww2 german scientists and tech? Anyways that's another story.

 

Honestly though in the era being depicted by Naval Action even the English spelling that the British used was never correct. 

We need to look at when the first dictionaries were circulated as I believe that is where this all came from. I believe the British had dictionaries dating before 1755 and the Americans made all the spelling changes in their 1806 dictionary. Remember that English is an mixture of Saxon and Norman among many many other dialects including Gaelic, Latin, German and French. So a lot of the American settlers would have just been mixing the same stuff again as always with a bunch of new stuff. Which is why the English language is one of the most diverse and complex in the world. We have so many shades of different words and so many meanings that it is apparently one of the hardest languages in the world to learn.

 

I believe the Americans and the English both brought out dictionaries to standardise English spelling at similar times. The Americans trying to make words sound more like they were put on paper and the English still using a lot of the old ways that things were put on paper when they sounded different. Thus it is actually easier to tell where words originated from in the British English spelling than by using the American Dictionaries but easier to spell from the American dictionary. 

However there is of course a lot of cross pollination as the languages evolved. 

 

These days meaning is becoming lost as everything is being made an acronym or shortened.

 

What is really interesting about naval action and naval terminology is just how much of the English language came from nautical terms.

Since reading the Aubrey books I have been spotting nautical terms all over language I learnt in early child hood. 

 

So relatively speaking I think the British English dictionary may have been later than the American one by a short time but the spelling in the British Dictionary is much older or more ancient. So you could say that the correct one would be the older one that still has original traces to be found and pondered and a connection to its roots.

 

In general though I think that people like order and having to spell things two different ways is a pain.

For naval action it's a hard question because the time line is exactly when the two different spellings would have existed. However it is anyones guess what captains would have used in the dominant fleet of the day - the British fleet.

 

Check the link. Considering that the Americans simplified the English spelling on purpose I can understand why the English and Americans disagree on which is better. On the one hand the original would be proper and traceable and the other easier to learn and in some part born out of hatred for the English.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/info/spelling-reform.htm

 

In the end it is no big deal. The way things are spelt/spelled

[Windy]

If you think the Yanks murder the English language, you need to speak to an Aussie...lol

[UltraVires]

President Andrew Jackson's best quote:

 

"I never thought much of a man who couldn't figure out more than one way to spell a word."

 

There's a butcher-er of the English... language... for you.        (Yes, that's a War of 1812 reference. )

[Saintduiex]

Youze guyz crack me up wit dis language ting

[darkhound]

I am an American but I do love the way the brits talk. It's all good fun. I will be honest here.. If you take 2 people of equal intelligence, One american and the other a Brit.. Which one sounds smarter? The Brit of course:) I love the accent!  One of my favorite fc's in eve is german.. Talk about a whole different dialect lol. 

[Baggywrinkle]

 

Why do Brits insult the American dialect?

 

Mostly, because it's fun

 

Dialect, interestingly, is one of the things that usually get spared. Pronunciation gets a kicking because it makes Yanks sound thick, and Brits smart, so that makes us feel good about ourselves. Spelling gets a kicking because it's 'easier', so same reason as pronunciation, but also because it abandons one of the most important and interesting aspects of English - the root languages from which it stems and continually borrows from. Those words are from other cultures, other pysches, and can be used to pass on very subtly coloured information. There is never any excuse for an Englishman to say anything other than exactly what he means, or wishes to communicate, and all without leaving his native tongue (if his vocabulary is broad, and he can be bothered). We're very lucky for that, and it's irritating for MS Word to tell you that it's wrong.  That said, it's been such a fluid thing up until so recently - Shakespeare, bless, couldn't get his own name 'right' two times out of three and he seemed to do okay...

 

Also, because 'herb' has an 'h' in it.

[Elcid Barrett]

I am a Canadian with an English father and an American wife.. this is a conversation (argument) that has no end. Trust me 

 

All languages evolve over time. When one language has an ocean and no common government between two groups of people who speak it, they will both evolve differently. This is why Canadians sound more like Americans (land borders), but our language "rules" are more closely aligned to the British (we say Zed, not Zee etc).

 

Even within the US you have many dialects, someone in Washington State sounds almost nothing like someone from Georgia, by the same token someone from London sounds very little like someone from Newcastle. It is the same in Canada, East and West have different accents and dialects. The only one that is right for you is the one they teach at your local school.

[Tettric]

I would have thought the smileys were a clear enough indication of a well meant joke but hey ho!

 

Most of us don't really care what dialect you speak. As far as I know the Americans are the only ones with alternate spellings but even then it doesn't really bother us. 

 

The only time I ever had an issue was when my English teacher kept correcting my spellings to the American ones!   She was Canadian though, not American...