War Declaration - an easy RVR - GnG solution

[Koltes]

Problem at hand:

1. Pirate clan owns the port and all clans donate to build its bonuses;

2. Said clan leaves nation, but does not flip port neutral (as Im sure was intended), by leaving his alt as a creator;

3. Now the port is factually owned by an enemy clan, who can use his alt clan as leverage demanding from pirates more donations or specific actions otherwise threatening to destroy all port buildings;

4. Pirates now have no way to fight the port back from its russian owner because there is no GnG RvR.

 

Solution:

1. From clan friends list allow clans to declare war on other clans of the same nation;

2. Said clan receives in-game male notifying that in 24 hours hostility between two clans will start;

3. The War Declaration lasts 72 hours with 72 hour cool down, so the same clan that received war declaration cant be declared war on by any other clan for 72 hours;

4. During this 72 hours war period clans can attack each other in the open world and attack each others ports just like vs another nation;

5. OW ROE is the same as when two nations attacked each other. Instead of Pirates vs GB battle for example sides will read Pirate BL4CK vs Pirate VCO 😉 and you can join either;

6. WarDec - aka Clan Wars mechanic does not need to be pirate only thing. This should apply to all nations

 

Benefits - players receive an ability to sort out their problems on their own. Trash talking in nation will now have consequences, which generally means better less toxic environment. Port ownership issues will get sorted its self out.

   

[Crimson Sunrise]

20 minutes ago, koltes said:

Problem at hand:

1. Pirate clan owns the port and all clans donate to build its bonuses;

2. Said clan leaves nation, but does not flip port neutral (as Im sure was intended), by leaving his alt as a creator;

3. Now the port is factually owned by an enemy clan, who can use his alt clan as leverage demanding from pirates more donations or specific actions otherwise threatening to destroy all port buildings;

4. Pirates now have no way to fight the port back from its russian owner because there is no GnG RvR.

 

Solution:

1. From clan friends list allow clans to declare war on other clans of the same nation;

2. Said clan receives in-game male notifying that in 24 hours hostility between two clans will start;

3. The War Declaration lasts 72 hours with 72 hour cool down, so the same clan that received war declaration cant be declared war on by any other clan for 72 hours;

4. During this 72 hours war period clans can attack each other in the open world and attack each others ports just like vs another nation;

5. OW ROE is the same as when two nations attacked each other. Instead of Pirates vs GB battle for example sides will read Pirate BL4CK vs Pirate VCO 😉 and you can join either;

6. WarDec - aka Clan Wars mechanic does not need to be pirate only thing. This should apply to all nations

 

Benefits - players receive an ability to sort out their problems on their own. Trash talking in nation will now have consequences, which generally means better less toxic environment. Port ownership issues will get sorted its self out.

   

there is no logic there consider about half the clan is still pirate and quite active in port ownership only those that chose to go russian went russian many stayed pirates, there is no this port is owned by an enemy nation its owned by a pirate clan in the pirate nation and some of their members went to another nation. u only want this change so that u can justify the actions ur clan took in helping the spanish to flip neuvitas cause u see vco as a russian clan rather then a pirate clan with more then 40 members active in it

and it changes it to the largest clan/strongest clan in the nation can steal any port they want from weaker clans that they dont like or dont want owning ports. its basicly becomes join us or die.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Crimson Sunrise

[Koltes]

19 minutes ago, Crimson Sunrise said:

there is no logic there consider about half the clan is still pirate and quite active in port ownership only those that chose to go russian went russian many stayed pirates, there is no this port is owned by an enemy nation its owned by a pirate clan in the pirate nation and some of their members went to another nation. u only want this change so that u can justify the actions ur clan took in helping the spanish to flip neuvitas cause u see vco as a russian clan rather then a pirate clan with more then 40 members active in it

and it changes it to the largest clan/strongest clan in the nation can steal any port they want from weaker clans that they dont like or dont want owning ports. its basicly becomes join us or die.

Ruby go back to your tribunal page. This isn't about your clan

[Hethwill]

Adjustments

1. By declaring war on one clan you would be declaring war on all the clan's friendly clan as well. Friend lists would become locked for the duration of the civil war ( normal PB cycle + counter PB if it happens, see below )

2. Only a Clan owning a Port would be able to declare war on another clan and this must also own a port of equivalent points.

3. WarDec would have to have an objective ( not simply OW pvp ). Control of a port.

4. Stakes are equivalent ports points. 

5. Failure to conquer the objective ( the one issuing the declaration of war MUST mean it ) during the normal PB time frame would automatically setup a PB against its own port of equivalent points.

 

So, only equivalent power clans can declare war on each other. A 45 points clan cannot declare war on a 15 points clan, nor vice versa. This serves to control power creep.

At the same time, stake are high. A port for a port.

[Beeekonda]

1 hour ago, koltes said:

Problem at hand:

1. Pirate clan owns the port and all clans donate to build its bonuses;

2. Said clan leaves nation, but does not flip port neutral (as Im sure was intended), by leaving his alt as a creator;

3. Now the port is factually owned by an enemy clan, who can use his alt clan as leverage demanding from pirates more donations or specific actions otherwise threatening to destroy all port buildings;

4. Pirates now have no way to fight the port back from its russian owner because there is no GnG RvR.

Stop making up things.

VCO is still there, active and ready to defend its ports.

VCO was there at Remedios defense, at Morgan's defense (while you were grinding Pitts from neutrals) and VCO, yet again, was there at Nuevitas ready to repel hostility mission ( while you took up all defense slots to prevent us from joining the battle and feeding them kills so they can finish it in one run).

@Hethwill It looks like the same shit when 7UP did similar thing at Portillo, I posted on tribunal, and they came in here with bullshit excuses and even more BS proposals to "make things better" 

[Koltes]

12 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

Stop making up things.

VCO is still there, active and ready to defend its ports.

VCO was there at Remedios defense, at Morgan's defense (while you were grinding Pitts from neutrals) and VCO, yet again, was there at Nuevitas ready to repel hostility mission ( while you took up all defense slots to prevent us from joining the battle and feeding them kills so they can finish it in one run).

@Hethwill It looks like the same shit when 7UP did similar thing at Portillo, I posted on tribunal, and they came in here with bullshit excuses and even more BS proposals to "make things better" 

This post is not about your clan go back to tribunal and cry there. This post is about RVR clan war mechanics.

[Beeekonda]

6 minutes ago, koltes said:

This post is not about your clan go back to tribunal and cry there. This post is about RVR clan war mechanics.

you sir using too much "cry" word.

Your post if full of direct and indirect references to a current Nuevitas situation, just like 7UP case. 

 

[Koltes]

2 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

you sir using too much "cry" word.

Your post if full of direct and indirect references to a current Nuevitas situation, just like 7UP case. 

 

Thats because its an issue in the mechanic that needs to be addressed. I created the post to address that issue.
An issue with your clan using Tribunal section more than any other sections on this forum is indeed a separate issue I dont wish to discuss here or anywhere else.
Situation with Nuevitas was used as latest and current example, but is not directed at your clan.
So either stay on topic and offer constructive suggestions to just pass along, but please dont talk about Nuevitas  

[Beeekonda]

1 hour ago, koltes said:

Benefits - players receive an ability to sort out their problems on their own. Trash talking in nation will now have consequences, which generally means better less toxic environment. Port ownership issues will get sorted its self out.   

btw you are the one who brought toxic environment to pirate nation. 

also:

1) You did not invested into a port

2) But you really want it

3) You couldn't sort out your problems on your own

4) People you called to sort your problems would sort it out by themselves

5) You had to do shenanigans to try sort it out

Such 2 faced person you are

[Koltes]

I dont necessary agree with everything for the reasons below, but I like the fact that we are thinking towards the same lines 

 

44 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Adjustments

1. By declaring war on one clan you would be declaring war on all the clan's friendly clan as well. Friend lists would become locked for the duration of the civil war ( normal PB cycle + counter PB if it happens, see below )
I like that. With exception that Friends list needs to go and instead clan based Alliance introduced. Few clans form an alliance with its own name. Creator of the alliance is the leading clan. When you WarDec a clan its OW only. If you want to attack their port then you must WarDec alliance vs alliance (everyone involved automatically)
 

2. Only a Clan owning a Port would be able to declare war on another clan and this must also own a port of equivalent points.
This is unfair to clans that joined late in the game and don't own any ports. Why would they have to miss out or be limited like that?
 

3. WarDec would have to have an objective ( not simply OW pvp ). Control of a port.
Clan WarDec is just hostility between two clan members. Alliance WarDec is full on RvR and OW hostility.
 

4. Stakes are equivalent ports points. 
Sorry you lost me on this one. What do you mean?
 

5. Failure to conquer the objective ( the one issuing the declaration of war MUST mean it ) during the normal PB time frame would automatically setup a PB against its own port of equivalent points.
Disagree. Attacker is already loosing ships. What as per #2 its a new clan? it should just cost money. Declaring war on clan is 1 mil reals. Declaring RvR war (alliance war) is 5 mil reals. This will limit trolling attacks and if attacker is lost it automatically makes them wasting money for nothing

 

So, only equivalent power clans can declare war on each other. A 45 points clan cannot declare war on a 15 points clan, nor vice versa. This serves to control power creep.
People switch nations, new clans arising. What if one clan been playing for a year and most of its members left? No one can attack their 55 point port?
Simple limitation to how many counties can 1 clan to own. Max 2 full size counties should be the limit.

At the same time, stake are high. A port for a port.

 

[Koltes]

8 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

btw you are the one who brought toxic environment to pirate nation. 

also:

1) You did not invested into a port

2) But you really want it

3) You couldn't sort out your problems on your own

4) People you called to sort your problems would sort it out by themselves

5) You had to do shenanigans to try sort it out

Such 2 faced person you are

Dude just leave me the fk alone lol
 

[Hethwill]

It is unfair to the newcomer clan, but surely protects the weak against the vile and the intention is that - to control power creep inside a nation automatically.

Other than that, we are good as we are. Want ports ? Take them from enemy nations.

Else, I stand by my suggestion  Attack the ones as strong as you.

 

[Koltes]

3 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

It is unfair to the newcomer clan, but surely protects the weak against the vile and the intention is that - to control power creep inside a nation automatically.

Other than that, we are good as we are. Want ports ? Take them from enemy nations.

Else, I stand by my suggestion  Attack the ones as strong as you.

 

But dude this makes no sense. The power creep surely can be controlled by other means.
But you are stopping Clan Wars RVR right away.
How about nations that have only x1 45 point port. You are making them invincible.

Power creep would stop automatically too if you limit clan to how many counties it may own. 

[Sea Archer]

The mechanic can be misused. Some evil big clan, that wants a port from a smaller one of the own nation can just cap it. 

I cannot support this suggestion, though I see the problem. 

[Hethwill]

Nations that have only 1 port do not need a civil war.

Nations that have more than 1 equivalent port can afford a limited civil war.

There's plenty of 15 points ports for inner clan vs clan as you posted.

Power creep will be contained within the nation.

Want to prove you're worthy big fish ? No need to kick the puppies. Fight enemy nations clans that are big fish as well and steal their ports.

( or don't )

[Isaac J Smith]

Perhaps this is something more suited to a unique pirate mechanic. Make the nation more clan focused than nation focused, but allow a larger clan friends-list. Other nations, no thanks unless the port is opened to all. We have enough internal nation drama as it is, without a troll clan constantly causing problems.

[Beeekonda]

1 minute ago, Sea Archer said:

The mechanic can be misused. Some evil big clan, that wants a port from a smaller one of the own nation can just cap it. 

I cannot support this suggestion, though I see the problem. 

Is true

They only want changes that would allow them to bully smaller clans like MEME.

 

[Severus Snape]

2 hours ago, koltes said:

Problem at hand:

1. Pirate clan owns the port and all clans donate to build its bonuses;

   

What if, for example, the clan that wants the port didn't donate or contribute to building it up?  Like BL4CK didn't contribute at Nuevitas and then demanded it be changed over?  Why should they get the port?

What we need is a transfer ownership option and have needed this in game for years.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Severus Snape

[Koltes]

4 minutes ago, Severus Snape said:

What if, for example, the clan that wants the port didn't donate or contribute to building it up?  Like BL4CK didn't contribute at Nuevitas and then demanded it be changed over?  Why should they get the port?

What we need is a transfer ownership option and have needed this in game for years.

I see your point, but this is war and someone has to win and other lose. And wars never fair.
Regards Nuevitas yes we did donate and helped with the building. We gave stone, provisions and shit load of doubloons. Pretty decent for 2 week old clan at the time. But that besides the point.
I will ask your own question back to you:
If clan that never donated shouldn't be able to claim/attack the port (based on fairness), then why the clan who collected donations is able to leave to another nation and still be able to pull strings? Why should they be able to kick clans out of friends list when those clans have heavily donated?

Transfer of ownership sounds good if its compulsory. But I dont think you mean that. I tell you more. Chirstendom told everyone that he will give Nuevitas away to the first who claims it. But never happened. Same will be with the transfer of ownership.

Another option of course if devs would oversee the game and sort those issues manually. That would work

[Severus Snape]

8 minutes ago, koltes said:

Transfer of ownership sounds good if its compulsory. But I dont think you mean that. I tell you more. Chirstendom told everyone that he will give Nuevitas away to the first who claims it. But never happened. Same will be with the transfer of ownership.

Transfer of ownership would be initiated by the owner.  If they want to give it away...they give it away.  

[Raekur]

What about the situation where a clan does not own the CC but does own the small ports and just switches them to available to all without the consent of the CC owner? (Reference what occurred in the gulf between 2 russian clans that were having internal issues)? 

Also, regarding friends lists, I think you may want to amend that to where clans that are on both friends lists are excluded from the battle or are automatically removed if they fight against a former ally. Would not want to reintroduce a mechanic that allows a clan to join both sides of a conflict.

Regarding port value, with the suggestion that the only one that can attack is a clan that has a port of equal value, that may make the largest ports (55) immune to attack. Perhaps allow a port of one step lower to be used instead of an equal value if one of equal value is not available. This would allow the smaller clans who own only a 15 point port a chance to move up a step. It would be very risky for the smaller clans, but better a slim chance than none at all. More so when the larger clan makes ports available that threaten the smaller clan.

[Severus Snape]

6 minutes ago, Raekur said:

What about the situation where a clan does not own the CC but does own the small ports and just switches them to available to all without the consent of the CC owner? (Reference what occurred in the gulf between 2 russian clans that were having internal issues)? 

Also, regarding friends lists, I think you may want to amend that to where clans that are on both friends lists are excluded from the battle or are automatically removed if they fight against a former ally. Would not want to reintroduce a mechanic that allows a clan to join both sides of a conflict.

Regarding port value, with the suggestion that the only one that can attack is a clan that has a port of equal value, that may make the largest ports (55) immune to attack. Perhaps allow a port of one step lower to be used instead of an equal value if one of equal value is not available. This would allow the smaller clans who own only a 15 point port a chance to move up a step. It would be very risky for the smaller clans, but better a slim chance than none at all. More so when the larger clan makes ports available that threaten the smaller clan.

A smarter solution would be to flip the front lines system and allow smaller ports to be attacked prior to the capital.  I don’t recall who made the suggestion, but the capital unlocks when 3/5 of the smaller ports are owned by the same nation.

this would prevent the situation in the gulf, as that particular clan would need to put timers on them and/or other nations could flip the ports.

[Crimson Sunrise]

3 hours ago, koltes said:

Ruby go back to your tribunal page. This isn't about your clan

 

Quote

5. OW ROE is the same as when two nations attacked each other. Instead of Pirates vs GB battle for example sides will read Pirate BL4CK vs Pirate VCO 😉 and you can join either;

you made it about VCO and BL4CK i am part of VCO, so yes this is about my clan, 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Crimson Sunrise

[Galt]

[Teutonic]

4 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Adjustments

1. By declaring war on one clan you would be declaring war on all the clan's friendly clan as well. Friend lists would become locked for the duration of the civil war ( normal PB cycle + counter PB if it happens, see below )

2. Only a Clan owning a Port would be able to declare war on another clan and this must also own a port of equivalent points.

3. WarDec would have to have an objective ( not simply OW pvp ). Control of a port.

4. Stakes are equivalent ports points. 

5. Failure to conquer the objective ( the one issuing the declaration of war MUST mean it ) during the normal PB time frame would automatically setup a PB against its own port of equivalent points.

 

So, only equivalent power clans can declare war on each other. A 45 points clan cannot declare war on a 15 points clan, nor vice versa. This serves to control power creep.

At the same time, stake are high. A port for a port.

Yeah, I'd like this.

 

If nothing else, what also sucks is when a clan essentially becomes "inactive" but they own a profitable port, so the port will never "drop" but no one can help defend it either.

 

I've largely agreed with others in that there should be a "civil war" type mechanic to allow clans within the same nation to fight if normal diplomatic talks do not work.