Endurance and Final exams - How to pass them (in new damage model)

[HachiRoku]

39 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Sure thing!

How do we keep mods as a good thing and stop meta mods?

Speed failfit solo is fantastic group tackler (META)

Invincible masts (META)

Some qualities become meta real fast while others like pen, turning, heel, hp, thickness and aiming have more wiggle room before META sets in.

Elite French, Carthagena and Kiri masts are the worst. Is copper platings a problem? I don't view them speed modded ships in a negative way because speed can be countered. Chain and dismasting. 

Carthagena on frigates is a joke. it gives you 5cm (10-20%)  armor on frigates and has 0 negative effects. It is completely overpowering. 

[Rabman]

With the penetration changes thickness mods have a lot less value, with guns over penetrating from 250m out, and angling only bouncing a fraction of what they were previously.

[jodgi]

28 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

I don't view them speed modded ships in a negative way because speed can be countered.

How do you counter speed modded ships accompanied by tanky line-ships on OW?

[Vernon Merrill]

6 minutes ago, jodgi said:

How do you counter speed modded ships accompanied by tanky line-ships on OW?

This.   It was balanced (more or less) when you could pit speed vs. HP.   Now you have to assume getting tagged and kited while the 13-knot death star that joined 15 minutes later slowly catches up.

Or you can hunt in some far off area and hope to get one fight per day...

Decisions, decisions....

[Tom Farseer]

15 minutes ago, rediii said:

32 minutes ago, jodgi said:

How do you counter speed modded ships accompanied by tanky line-ships on OW?

Kill or disable the speed modded ships 

I usually tend to agree with your statements Rediii.
But you know that this is sometimes easier said than done. Even with repairs Two or three good captains in light ships can slow you down enough so that anything can catch up to you. One could argue that those people deserve their kill or loot or whatever but in my book a ganks a gank and the problem pointed out by Jodgi is not so easily solved.

[Von Gulag]

21 hours ago, jodgi said:

Pfft, if these mythical noobs can pass the exam, they're ready.

Dont worry, we won't pass. To be honest I will probally have to give up before I throw my pc out of my window.

I mean come on this tutorial punishes me harder than my mistress...

 

Dont feel sorry for me though, I knew new player support was lacking and that the learning curve was really steep. 

 

 

Regardless, if anyone has some usefull links for noobs that would be fantastic. For instance I have issues with predicting and understanding AI boarding. I mean I get what beats out what. But that is as far as I can go. (sorry there is probally a forum post somewere, I will look around just to be sure)

Cheers sailors,

A true noob with 13hrs in the tutorial.

[jodgi]

5 minutes ago, rediii said:

uneven battles are a feature in NA. I still stand with that

It's fine. I've actually never campaigned for equalized battles in OW. I have campaigned for fair battles outside OW; rooms, circles, Legends or wherever, but NOT in OW.

My comment is about speed modding.

In my dream OW there would be no speed modding at all. Then only smaller ships would work as tacklers and they would thus be easier to deal with. We, however, have to deal with fail-fit endys or what have you, and that isn't as easy as dealing with renoms, hercs or rattles.

Imagine if we had a timer from instance start that kept track of how long it took for each ship to join and then placed each ship at a distance from the tagged factoring in the OW/instance time break... Then small ships and fail fits wouldn't have been a problem to deal with as the tanky cavalry would be far off instead of being dropped on your head.

We'll prolly never get something like this and I'm not even pretending to be asking for the impossible (that groups should have to sail together in order to fight together).

I'm just saying that speed modding aggravates and compounds the problems we have to accept due to OW ≠ instance.

Yay! unfair fights are cool and part of war and all that jazz... But how can it be beneficial to recruitment and retention that vets can make fail fit bellonas that can chase down a casual player's trinco? ... Because that never happens, right? And the forum is full of praise and appreciation of ganking, right?

I'm thinking damage control and minimizing frustration.

 

[HachiRoku]

3 hours ago, jodgi said:

How do you counter speed modded ships accompanied by tanky line-ships on OW?

with friends. It is not a problem in my view that some people like ganking. There is nothing wrong with the game design there. The only problem I see that in a gank limited chain favors the gankers for reasons I don't need to explain again I hope. I warned people the second the devs told us about limited chain that ganking would be worse but I was wrong according to the forums. If chain was unlimited like repairs the line ships would not catch up to the frigates if they play their chain game into the wind.

[HachiRoku]

2 hours ago, Tom Farseer said:

I usually tend to agree with your statements Rediii.
But you know that this is sometimes easier said than done. Even with repairs Two or three good captains in light ships can slow you down enough so that anything can catch up to you. One could argue that those people deserve their kill or loot or whatever but in my book a ganks a gank and the problem pointed out by Jodgi is not so easily solved.

ganking is part of sandbox. I dont like it but what I hate more than ganking are artificial restrictions against it. Ganking is ok. There is nothing to be solved with ships that are designed to slow down a slower ship and let their friends catch up. How did the brits catch the uss president? Thats correct the Endymion did it with reinforcements behind her. To be fair the endymion is a good ship. Fast and heavy but there is nothing to solve about a gank clan with a tactic. 

[Slim McSauce]

5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

with friends. It is not a problem in my view that some people like ganking. There is nothing wrong with the game design there. The only problem I see that in a gank limited chain favors the gankers for reasons I don't need to explain again I hope. I warned people the second the devs told us about limited chain that ganking would be worse but I was wrong according to the forums. If chain was unlimited like repairs the line ships would not catch up to the frigates if they play their chain game into the wind.

The limiting of chain came with an expectation that repairs would be limited with it, that way a skillfull captain could waste the chain/reapirs of his opponents and have enough of his own to get away. NA could live off 100% even battles, even 1.5x br battles, but it would not last long if every battle was a gank. Ganks, or any scenario where the battle is mostly decided before it is even played, is not good gameplay and is not attractive to gamers looking for a good time.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[HachiRoku]

3 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

13-knot death star

those 13 knot death stars have cannot catch a frigate at 70% sails close hauled. 

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Slim McSauce said:

The limiting of chain came with an expectation that repairs would be limited with it, that way a skillfull captain could waste the chain/reapirs of his opponents and have enough of his own to get away. NA could live off 100% even battles, even 1.5x br battles, but it would not last long if every battle was a gank. Ganks, or any scenario where the battle is mostly decided before it is even played, is not good gameplay and is not attractive to gamers looking for a good time.

except that naval action is still alive after 3 years steam beta. Many games are not. Ganking is not a reason players quit. If you're all so against ganking why did noone play legends? Why was it me vs bots? Not you personally

[Tom Farseer]

3 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

those 13 knot death stars have cannot catch a frigate at 70% sails close hauled.  

say again?

Edit:
I know that is the most slanted example that could be found short of speed stacking the Vic and making the Indef as slow as possible with mods.
But still the fact that this is possible tells me something is quite wrong with ship speeds overall

Edited March 13, 2019 by Tom Farseer

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Tom Farseer said:

say again?

indefatigable is no frigate. 

[Tom Farseer]

erm.. yes it is?

even a 4th rate (that is only a 4th because of her carro stack) can be called a frigate. See american frigates (Conny & Co).

Also those 13 knot death stars can still catch and melt any 4th rate if not 5th rates. Still a bit of a problem.
I don't know why someone would build/sail a Live/White Ingermanland or Wapen to begin with. But I still don't think that 1st rates should be able to catch those.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Tom Farseer

[Slim McSauce]

5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

except that naval action is still alive after 3 years steam beta. Many games are not. Ganking is not a reason players quit. If you're all so against ganking why did noone play legends? Why was it me vs bots? Not you personally

maybe, just maybe it's because legends never launched out of closed alpha. Actually the game was it's biggest during sea trials right? so yeah, point proven.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Tom Farseer said:

erm.. yes it is?

even a 4th rate (that is only a 4th because of her carro stack) can be called a frigate. See american frigates (Conny & Co)

american frigates were designed and build as frigates. The indef was not. A teak wo connie could most likely escape that victory close hauled but in my opinion its not fair to compare a fir victory to a wo indef. Teak wo indef could arguable be a better ship than a fir fir victory if you put carros on her. Its a strong ship. A fir fir victory can be intercepted by any speed designed frigate and then sank by a bellona. Ganking goes both ways.....

[Slim McSauce]

6 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

 A fir fir victory can be intercepted by any speed designed frigate and then sank by a bellona. Ganking goes both ways.....

That's not a gank because the BR is pretty much equal in that fight. Even so a teak/wo indef is cremated by a victory in about 2 minutes.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[HachiRoku]

5 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

maybe, just maybe it's because legends never launched out of closed alpha. Actually the game was it's biggest during sea trials right? so yeah, point proven.

Every game is biggest at release but hey I guess there are exceptions to the rule im sure you will point out. 

[Slim McSauce]

1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

Every game is biggest at release but hey I guess there are exceptions to the rule im sure you will point out. 

yeah, good games tend to grow. Warframe for example.

[HachiRoku]

Just now, Slim McSauce said:

yeah, good games tend to grow. Warframe for example.

Yeah thats what I want. A free to play version like legends. Im sure we would not be having this discussion then. Streamers can actually stream the game and not get sniped. Thats the reason streamers played sea trials. 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, HachiRoku said:

Yeah thats what I want. A free to play version like legends. Im sure we would not be having this discussion then. Streamers can actually stream the game and not get sniped. Thats the reason streamers played sea trials. 

All the people who bought the game in early 2016 bought it with the expection that it was going to be an arena based naval combat sim (as close to a naval combat sim there is)
I'd bet money none of them at the time expected the game to drop the arena and go MMO. Hell the first gameplay I saw of NA was the seatrials by sidestrafe I think, that was well after the game had went MMO. I would not blame anyone for wanting the arena over the MMO, the ambition and understanding of player psychology to create the necessary short/long/medium goals, interwoven content and fleshed out game world required to make an MMO is a lot to chew. I mean you can just look at how vicious the developement cycle is going round and round trying to find some place to settle can take a toll on people.

[HachiRoku]

Just now, Slim McSauce said:

All the people who bought the game in early 2016 bought it with the expection that it was going to be an arena based naval combat sim (as close to a naval combat sim there is)
I'd bet money none of them at the time expected the game to drop the arena and go MMO. Hell the first gameplay I saw of NA was the seatrials by sidestrafe I think, that was well after the game had went MMO. I would not blame anyone for wanting the arena over the MMO, the ambition and understanding of player psychology to create the necessary short/long/medium goals, interwoven content and fleshed out game world required to make an MMO is a lot to chew. I mean you can just look at how vicious the developement cycle is going round and round trying to find some place to settle can take a toll on people.

Naval action was already a sandbox in early 2016. They did not expect it to go from arena to mmo. They asked for it. The development cycle of this game is not that bad to be fair because its a one of a kind game. Most other games already belong to a certain genre so its far easier to design from the start. This game is not. What can you compare naval action to? I for one am glad the devs take their time. I am in no hurry. Naval Action 2 will be a far easier game to make once this game is finished. 

[Greysteak]

3 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

What can you compare naval action to?

MegaWars3.  This is the game that compares most favorably to that classic.  That's why I like it so much

.

[Slim McSauce]

The developement is literal hell and it's comparable to dayz, Years of circle back developement to be released in a non-finished state, unless by some miracle we get raids, musketry, pirate mechanics and clan warfare before release, the OW is just as empty as it's always been and has never been a game but a buffer to the game.