Cetric de Cornusiac Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Almost daily we have on global chat someone asking about a wipe coming up, the fear is great. Most people there agree they don't want to see their belongings, warehouse content, ships, upgrades, books, money, doubloons etc etc getting lost at that dreadful day known as "the wipe" coming up. What are the imaginable pros and cons of a wipe from view of a developer? I'll try to sum up: Pro - server reset, cleaned database, less storage on server (cost reduction?) - people have equalized chances when everyone has to start over again, together with new players, at zero (*) - no advantage by veteran players in perfected ships which frustrate beginners (**) - you can create new statistical material with wipe, as a starting point of a new era, about player behavior and progression, investigate for future improvements - renewed incentives for RvR, conquest, getting stuff from ports (***) Con - players are driven away from game as they don't want to do all their previous efforts again, feels like hamster wheel - players get angry because you take their beloved golden or purple class ships with rare upgrades from them (maybe upgrades which are in some specific pairing no longer possible) - motivation is sinking as players think, with having paid full price like for finished game, they have a right to keep what they have achieved in the pre-wipe period - time before a wipe is dampening activities as players anticipate wipe and calculate it's useless to play on, as the results are going to be annihilated anyway **** Some of those arguments do not apply for PvE peace server, or at a very reduced rate. I will elaborate: (*) The competition on PvE PS is not the same as on PvP War Server. We don't fight each other, the focus is on cooperation. Thus no well equipped player is enjoying an advantage over a badly equipped player, and this controversial relationship does not need to be reset by a wipe (with both of them being 'badly equipped for a while) for some fake 'equality'. I have to remind that admin himself said that two weeks after a wipe, all equality will be gone anyway. Thus the differences in equipment and related fighting value see only a short interruption by any wipe. We do trade material, upgrades, books as well on PvE PS, but still you often find people who are willing to give away stuff to beginners for free. How they can help and give away if their possessions are annihilated by wipe? They will see to their own, first. This is counterproductive for the cooperative spirit on PvE PS. (**) Lacking direct confrontation with other players in battle, people on PvE PS experience no disadvantage opposite veteran players using well-equipped golden and purple class ships. Unless the better equipment becomes a factor in competitions like the weekly events. But skill is the much stronger factor here. (***) No RvR and no conquest by port battles on PvE PS mean there does not need to be a renewal of incentives for such things. The map borders concerning national possessions stay always the same, at least at the present state of game. *** I see however all con-arguments valid also for PvE PS. Players took a long time to collect rare materials and books, not to speak of a golden class ship they have waited a year for. The impact of a wipe in terms of anger and frustration, when all will be gone and you look into an empty warehouse and dockyard, seems unmeasurable to me. We noticed a huge player base increase starting with the major patch last autumn and some precious words of devs showing appreciation of the PvE community. I don't want to see that progress destroyed again, by a wipe. What I do understand and support, though, is a wipe of old accounts which have not been used for a year or longer. If that dead load is a burden for servers, their setting back to zero is understandable. But you just don't cut living flesh with your knife. If the wipe is still impossible to impede, let's think of a way to make it easier and more exceptable for veteran players. Like cutting their belongings in two halves and let them keep one half. And by giving them the choice of 5 ships out of 30 with DLC admiralty connection, and 3 ships out of 20 without that DLC, which they handpick and will be allowed to be taken over into the after-wipe period. *** Please, folks, as I can foretell PvP WS players will comment here and shift the discussion over to their interests on War Server, let's keep this topic strictly PvE PS orientated and not get watered by your motives and arguments of purely PvP character. Consider opening your own thread for that. Thank you. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Hernán Cortés Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 As a new player , i would like to not have a full wipe as its pointless in a lot of ways , i would love to keep playing and dont have my ships , money, rank, items ... wiped out , this game takes alot of time to rank , farm and make youre fleet . I would be really disapointed and probably dont play anymore if theres a full wipe and i think alot of players that just PVE would do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anymn Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I'm wondering what purpose a PvE server wipe would serve. The only thing I can imagine, is that there would be a fair starting point for everyone. But considering there is not competition on PvE anyways, that really isn't a big deal. The drawbacks however are not good. Players will lose a lot of progress in their ship/upgrade collection without any benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azenya Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) Wipe it... lets have a fresh start! Edited January 24, 2019 by Azenya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durin Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said: + option to keep 2-5 ships yeah that would be perfect for me so i can keep all my op gold hunting ships. a problem with that regarding a equal start i see not at all ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetric de Cornusiac Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Azenya said: Now I hear that a wipe is incoming. I did not mean to spread panic. A wipe is not imminently awaiting us, at the moment. It is scheduled to happen at release. But it's worth discussing the topic as early as possible, as you have noticed, the topic is already resurfacing for months in chat and always some people start panicking. So if we had some relief on that by devs telling us something of the sort I proposed here, it will be good for the time until release and sooth players. Maybe keep some more in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Why panic ? Is a game. A comfortable pass-time. No panic involved except when the enemy ship in next to you in fire shock, then you can panic. Get wiped ?!... no Sir, all the knowledge about the game you acquired by being a player-tester during Early Access will never be wiped ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anymn Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Durin said: yeah that would be perfect for me so i can keep all my op gold hunting ships. a problem with that regarding a equal start i see not at all ;D But why is an equal start necessary on a PvE server? It doesn't matter if someone has 30 first rates, all golden. They worked hard for it, let them have their fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetric de Cornusiac Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, Durin said: regarding a equal start On 11/12/2018 at 9:39 AM, admin said: I understand the beauty of the fresh start. But this is an a MMO and this fresh start feeling will be gone in less then 7 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 You do know EA is subject to change and that includes wipes? You seriously think all these changes being made don't warrant a fresh testing slate? The devs work too build this game too, so let them decide if they feel a wipe is necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marquês do Bonfim Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I don't mind losing my ships, my only concern is rank, ship knowledge, books, upgrades, warehouse content, craft xp and level xp, reals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 It has been confirmed multiple times that rank and crafting lvl was secure. @Ink stated in a post by @HachiRoku that ship knowledge was secure from a wipe as well.. As to the ships, goods etc. it has no meaning. A wipe won't change anything in terms of econ since the players will have 20+ ships etc after 14 days anyway. There really is no need for a wipe unless significant changes comes to the economy, a slide from alpha to beta to release will be the same as a wipe every year... It won't change a thing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 @Lars Kjaer can you link the ship knowledge bit ? Thanks a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Just now, Chevalier du Ethuville said: @Lars Kjaer can you link the ship knowledge bit ? Thanks a ton. I can, but that's almost a year ago.. just search the topics @HachiRoku has made, he hasn't written a lot in a while.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Lowe Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Well although I disagree with one counter claim for not wiping the PvE server, and I'll explain in s moment. I do think that a full wipe, as the devs have laid it out, specifically on release day is not the best idea for the overall health of the game moving foward from that day. First why wipe anything from the PvE server. The PvE server is a unique beast from a testing and data stand point. It is essentially like a sanitized laboratory environment. Which provides alot of good "uncorrupted" base data. This is because of the lack of the more complex interactions that occur due to PvP and RvR on the war server. Each server provides it's own unique set of data that taken together helps determine areas of deficiency. This along with feedback from players is what determines many of the adjustments and priorities for future development. In the case of a major patch which will fundamentally change mechanics and there interactions such as this upcoming econ patch having a clean slate to start from can be necessary for both servers. This is because they provide two different unique types of data. Now when I say wipe that should not be interrupted to mean toss out everything. Only those things that will possibly corrupt the testing data needs to be reduced or removed. Its not a matter of the devs hating on us and cruelly taking away our toys it's an unfortunate necessity in order to get the best possible game they can produce. Now as for the release wipe. I think in the first place a wipe on release day itself is probably a bad move. When the game is released new players should come into a vibrant living world with a community in game willing and , more importantly, able to help them along there grind. However we dont want to drag in things from old ideas or exploits that will start us out on a bad foot from day 1. I like the idea of allowing us to keep 3 to 5 ships as well as all experience and knowledge. I just dont think allowing each player to pick is practical. The game has sold over 100,000 copies. Even if only 10,000 place their desired choices that could be an overwhelming task for such a small team draining all resources from other endeavors for days or even a couple weeks. Also what of those who didn't get the message and thus didn't get to put in their request. Thus here is what I think provides the best compromise. The player base will vote on a number of ships they would most like to keep as a community. This should equate to the overall most popular models. They may get to choose 1 SOL, 1 Frigate, 1 shallow or any other combination as determined by the devs to be fair. Those ships will be given as redeemables after wipe. They may not be gold and all might not be each players favorite but there should be something there for everyone. Second wipe should occur 2 to 4 weeks prior to release. During this time RvR is suspended so we have a fresh start on release day. All other OW ROE is in affect. This short period allows us all time to get things prepared so we will on be ready for war and second ready to help the influx of new blood we expect to receive. I believe that provides the most seamless transition from test to launch. We get some starting ships, which is all any enterprising captain should need to make his fortune. We have time to get ready for each other as well as our new and returning mates, and on launch day players coming in should find what they expect a world that's already prepared for them to jump into and immerse themselves in. They will also find a community ready and able to do what they can to get them off to a good start and having fun as quickly as their skill level will allow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) Though I would not like it myself, I do believe the progression from ensign MUST be tested. Therefore a complete wipe of everything including rank is a necessary evil. There will be only one game release, where previous, new and old players alike will return and try the game in its entirety, one and only shot at a large playerbase, best to get it right now. Edited January 18, 2019 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetric de Cornusiac Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 20 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said: A wipe won't change anything in terms of econ since the players will have 20+ ships etc after 14 days anyway Ships are not ships. Took me a full year until I got a golden class Endymion. Keep your blue average 'substitute', mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetric de Cornusiac Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 PvE PS has served all the time as 'reserve anchor' to keep people in game, just other server, who otherwise would have dropped out completely. This will especially become evident when PvP WS will be struck by wipe and we won't. Many posts and chat protocols show people are worried about wipe and think about leaving game because of this. We don't want this. You PvP ganking kings don't want this. Nobody here wants this. Think about it. A player which drops off the boat is lost completely, also as your prey on WS. A player which lands on PvE PS because here he has not to fear losses due to wipes, he will be kept in the game and anytime return to your precious hunting grounds on PvP WS anytime later again. So, indirectly WS profits from no wipe on PS too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 You trying to convince yourself of the righteous cause you defend or the developer/design team of the correct course of action ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetric de Cornusiac Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said: You trying to convince yourself of the righteous cause you defend or the developer/design team of the correct course of action ? Can't it be both? We could write an academic thesis paper on this alone. Meanwhile, I am still fascinated by this sexy new sophisticated French name and title you adopted, Hethwill. Well done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I was forced to do it... 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlatkowar Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I'm okay with the "keep your XP and knowledge" compromise, but I can totally understand why someone who spent 1k+ hours grinding to get that golden ship would be discouraged and give up doing it all over again. I'd be in the same situation if I played that hard too. One way to do it would be to allow alpha players to pick one, max two ships they can keep into release and make them untradeable. I can also understand why a full wipe seems necessary, fresh start to give a fair chance for everyone and remove the possibility to screw up the economy from day one. I guess it is theirs to take both positive and negative aspects of a wipe into account even if logic says "hey, it's an alpha, you were warned, you knew it was coming", but they should really, reeeeaaally be careful and pick the best decision for the playerbase. Giving a fair chance to newbs is important, and so is keeping your veterans happy. It's all about finding balance. Key question is "what positive effect will this action have on game release" and the points raised here about PvE server mentality is important. Cooperation and competition are different mindsets and there's not much use treating both the same way. Theres another thing, a bit off topic though, that will be crucial... And that's the Steam evaluations. I'm wondering whether it gets reset at game release, and I believe it should, because games change a hell lot between alpha and release and it would be unfair to keep those. And I know theres a lot of people who rely on this to choose whether they are buying the game or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/17/2019 at 8:14 PM, Chevalier du Ethuville said: @Lars Kjaer can you link the ship knowledge bit ? Thanks a ton. https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/27445-pre-release-and-release-wipe-plans-definitive-guide/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Thanks. Almost definitely in bold is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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