Magallanes Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Today, October,12 1492.... 526 years ago. Cristobal Colón discovers American continent...for better or worse... Long life to Kingdom of Spain... Edited December 13, 2018 by Magallanes 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anolytic Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, Magallanes said: discovers "discovers" 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magallanes Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Sure,,,I said to the best and worse..just a fact more concerned here Edited October 12, 2018 by Magallanes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Ugh, the silly horned helmets that absolutely have to be included as a reference to Vikings. It was some German national romantic that pulled that idea out of his ass. We're so sorry, but it wasn't our fault that these pre-na... ...tionalists had a hard-on for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njord Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 46 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said: American natives discored European savages. Kind of amusing coming to think of it... some 500 years ago people from one corner of the world butchered some of another like animals, taking their land and dignity as if it was their divine right thinking of their victims as nothing but savages and lesser humans. Then for example some 70 years ago it happened again and even tho the circumstances were different, the mindset was exactly the same but people remember and think of it differently. The winners write the history books after all, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Oh, crap! What did I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sento de Benimaclet Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 14 hours ago, Banished Privateer said: American natives discored European savages. Wild Europeans? What did the Aztecs and the Mayans do to the peoples subjugated by their empire? Have you seen Apocalypto? To think that these people lived in a peaceful and fraternal paradise where goodness reigned, solidarity towards the neighbor until the arrival of the Europeans is deceived. The human being is wild, born where he was born, you just have to watch the news on TV. everyday. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetric de Cornusiac Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Ahh, the romantic picture of the "noble savage" lives on, as initiated by dreamer J-J. Rosseau. And all Europeans are monsters... 🙄 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetric de Cornusiac Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Let's face it: the spirit of the era (or 'Zeitgeist') determines how deeds in history are seen today. Yesterday they were seen and admired for doing heroic deeds, today explorers and conquerors are marked as vile blood-thirsty monsters. And native cultures, no matter how undeveloped, get the love of our days in public opinion. Or else you are a retarded macho. -- Yes there has been drama, blood-shed and destruction, greed and abuse. Always has been. But on the long run, those European explorers, conquerors and colonists (in that line up) have developed countries helplessly behind world standards to evolve and enable better life conditions. They brought the inventions and progress, infrastructure and a chance to leap hundreds or thousands of years ahead which local people had for some mysterious reason missed so far. In Africa, in the Americas, to a lesser extent in Asia. Europeans did not just bring havoc, they build up and made it possible new regions on Earth could develop to what they are today. And they had to pay a price for that, too. Or would we like to see today societies which are still in stone age or bronce/iron age, with all related disadvantages for their people? No, they would cry for the things the advanced nations have. And is a society on stone age level or early civilizations an harmonic place to live? They also do their wars against each other. While today most conflicts are avoided by negotiations and contracts based on international law. Instead cracking open each others' skulls on first provocation. That's progress. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvar Fañez de Minaya Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) The first mistake of the story is to interpret it from a current point of view. Whoever thinks, for example, that all Romans who had slaves were rubbish is that they do not know anything about history. The human genre evolves ... with its lights and shadows .... In the discovery of America by the Spaniards there were shadows as in any human work, but there were also lights, like all the universities that were created for example. Edit: I take this opportunity to remember that today, human trafficking moves more money than drugs and weapons together ... today there are more slaves in the world than ever in its history. Man evolves more slowly than his ideas. Edited October 13, 2018 by Alvar Fañez de Minaya 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 7 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said: Yes there has been drama, blood-shed and destruction, greed and abuse. Always has been. But on the long run, those European explorers, conquerors and colonists (in that line up) have developed countries helplessly behind world standards to evolve and enable better life conditions. They brought the inventions and progress, infrastructure and a chance to leap hundreds or thousands of years ahead which local people had for some mysterious reason missed so far. In Africa, in the Americas, to a lesser extent in Asia. Europeans did not just bring havoc, they build up and made it possible new regions on Earth could develop to what they are today. And they had to pay a price for that, too. Consider a situation in which eg a super advanced country right now invades your country. Disease that they bring kills 90% of your population. Rest is robed, exploited for force labor and subjugated. Your culture and history is getting destroyed. But hey, those guys bring cool tech discoveries, which those enslaved people of your will be able to use in a few generations. Would you be happy with such an outcome? Would you praise those people, or would your children? Remember, less than 10% of local population survived the whole process. Yes, you're right there is a zeitgeist. It doesn't nullify crimes against humanity though. If what happened in Americas would happen in Europe, our view on similar events would be much different now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetric de Cornusiac Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 If this number is correct, 90 %, it was certainly not planned that way. Suppose you counted also the disease victims caused by european illnesses imported, Smallpox, if I recall right. But there is also the other way how that went. It is believed Syphillis was brought from the New World to the Old, as early as by returning crew of Columbus. Nobody can anticipate such things. On the long run, there was no alternative to modernize those regions by colonization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said: If this number is correct, 90 %, it was certainly not planned that way. 90% is just the disease, not counting victims of destruction of states and economies, or mass murders and forced labour victims. Yes, there were alternatives to colonization. Banished mentioned one, but there were multiple other examples. It just so happened that it wasn't considered interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Alucard_ Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Another thread about this with the same bullshit propaganda? If I start writting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtiberofrog Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) Most of old European nations, with their technological superiorities, crossed oceans for wealth quest with a smelly religious legitimity... Colon has been converted to a symbol by history writters, like Aldrin, Amstrong & collins recently were. Even if we know now that this continent was already discovered by scandinavians long before. ( to Anolytic post) Consequences are not taken into account in that symbolical/historical event. Colonization is another aspect that is not always linked to land/civilization discoveries. Edited October 14, 2018 by Celtiberofrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traitorous mctraitoro Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Lets all be honest here Zheng He discovered America. And we all know that Columbus was told about the continent before he commissioned the fleet to sail there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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