Archaos Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, z4ys said: because the the way how to fight is dictated by game meta. You know exactly what the other will do and how to avoid and counter and when on the same skill lvl that will last for ever. Thats boring and most of the time a waste of time. So what you are saying is that skilled players would have more fun beating up on unskilled players rather than facing players of equal or better skill than themselves. Well then dont blame the unskilled players from beating up on AI as that is more fun than getting beaten up by skilled players. I do not agree with what I have just said, but I am just pointing out the flawed logic in your thinking. The one thing that is true in your thinking is that most people asking for safe zones to be removed are just looking for easy targets to beat up on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaos Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said: That moment when players think that PvP is what kills the server and population... PvP'ers do not kill the game, but the people that think everyone should be forced to PvP all the time do. If the percentage of the people who play this game just for PvP is so high, then why are they struggling to find PvP? As can be seen from some of the responses, some people just want to PvP against easy targets rather than look for challenging PvP against equal or better opponents. Its this constant beating up on less skilled players and camping them in capital regions that chases people from the game. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundgemunkey Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 not sure if its possible to do but as the whole game is risk v reward .. there should be a way of adding a pvp mark multiplier it wont work on rank because there are plenty of rear admirals that have never made a pvp kill so the current pvp leader board should be extended to a weekly total . and the top 100 captains listed ... these are then split int quartiles ,, top 25 group 1 25-50 group 2 50 -75 group 3 75- 100 group 4 not in top 100 group 5 if you attack a player in same group as you normal pvp points .. if you sink someone in a higher group pvp marks are uplifted by 25% for every group difference for instance someone in group 5 sinks a group 1 player pvp marks are increased by 25% for every group difference so group 5 player gets 100% uplift in pvp marks so intead of receiving say 4 pvp marks they would get 8 ... if a group 5 player sank a group 2 player they woul get a 75 % uplift they sink group 3 50% group 4 25% if a group 1 player sinks a lower group player the opposite occure pvp marks earned are reduced so goup 1 player sinks group 5 player .. and normal reward is 4 marks they would only get 2 marks this will make attacking noobs less of a reward for skilled captains ..but still leaves a reward for skilled v skilled pvp also a great incentive for noobs to take part in pvp due to the points difference by attacking different groups and the points you gain this will make the pvp leader board far more fluid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) Sorry same question again @admin do you really think it is no Problem that the biggest part of the community is sitting in safezones? you know they dont sit there because they hate PvP but if you give them the opertunity to do all theire common stuff inside the safezone they will do it because all other way to do it are stupid because the risk is higher... the guys have to leave the safezones so you get your map alive... aslong you can doo all you dailystufff inside youve got no Need for it.... and Archaos... they cant find PvP because all are hiding inside the safezone... are they hiding because they dont want PvP ? No ! theyre inside because they can.. because they can do all what they Need inside and the risk is lower.. if you would remove this zones the Players would look around for other places to do their missions safe. they have to transport their resources outside of a safezone so you can be attacked or have to be secured... thats what a open world PvP game should be Edited February 27, 2018 by the Kidd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaGeoff Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Archaos said: PvP'ers do not kill the game, but the people that think everyone should be forced to PvP all the time do. If the percentage of the people who play this game just for PvP is so high, then why are they struggling to find PvP? As can be seen from some of the responses, some people just want to PvP against easy targets rather than look for challenging PvP against equal or better opponents. Its this constant beating up on less skilled players and camping them in capital regions that chases people from the game. Well said. Add to that game mechanics that make it impossible to defend a capital with players. You want more PvP... get rid of join timers and the closer you are to a port the closer the defenders spawn into the battle when they join. That will get rid of easy pickings and generate more effective defense and PvP around defense of ports. Give those that will defend a nation enough tools to actually stop gankers and gank fleets and sink them. Nothing is more disheartening to a new player than being told... "yea, he sunk you and nobody can stop it the next time he does it unless you can call reinforcements." Nothing is more heartening to a newbie than being in a fight, an experienced nation mate tells him "Just stall and stay alive, we have 4 guys on the way". There have been times in the game (and higher population levels) when you could count on your nation having your back when you got jumped. With the timers today... it's not even worth it because nobody is getting in. It is doubtful you can even get a revenge fleet and even if you do, the odds the revenge gank fleet is going to catch and kill the perp is close to zero. Edited February 27, 2018 by IndianaGeoff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Archaos said: So what you are saying is that skilled players would have more fun beating up on unskilled players rather than facing players of equal or better skill than themselves. Well then dont blame the unskilled players from beating up on AI as that is more fun than getting beaten up by skilled players. I do not agree with what I have just said, but I am just pointing out the flawed logic in your thinking. The one thing that is true in your thinking is that most people asking for safe zones to be removed are just looking for easy targets to beat up on. I am not blaming the players alone. I blame the game for its bad game mechanics that do everything to help the good players and do nothing for the weak. Player that have known names ingame have access to everything while no name players struggle. Try to buy mod xy as no name player you wont get it. Fighting weak players is fun because you can do whatever you want try out stuff and still win or run away. Furthermore you get high reward for killing a noob in SOL without risk for yourself. That are all flaws that exist till NA OW exist. But we have such a strong vet lobby and people are lazy that changes in the right direction are a dead end because of wrong reasons. NA is a pvp game. Do you see any other content for pve as stupid AI doing the same over and over again or missions that are all the same just ships alter? Would you call that pve content? I wouldnt. To keep pve'ing just makes you quit sooner or later just like the mechanics for pvp. 17 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said: You are correct the game is all about PvP. I suggest the game be expanded. But if not, the direction for the game is clear. But it's OK. Legends will be the better PvP solution so they have a plan. yeah but i still dont get it. They have NAL up ones sleeve why they make NA a flat simcade. all whats left in NA currently is RvR and even that is meaningless most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, z4ys said: atfer all what you guys wrote we must see a lot of skilled vs skilled battles because they are so much fun. so why pvp grps just skip each other? why not attack the R fellows when they attacked the us coast but rather side with them because it was easier to kick the "noobs" ? Oh brother, give me 100% chance of winning and 100% of bragging rights, not a headache 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said: You want more PvP... get rid of join timers and the closer you are to a port the closer the defenders spawn into the battle when they join. That will get rid of easy pickings and generate more effective defense and PvP around defense of ports. Give those that will defend a nation enough tools to actually stop gankers and gank fleets and sink them. Lets say we would change it the way do you suggest. what would happen is everyone wait in port for a battle any nobody would actually sail in ow. Because waiting in port and jumping a battle would be the meta. While everyone is sitting in port no battles would happen. while no battles are around people would logout. why? because we already had that. Edited February 27, 2018 by z4ys 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) Sry guys but the main question is and will be the same (if we go backt to topic). Aslong you havent to leave the safezone you will not get real open world PvP. The admin said this is not a Problem... they have reasons to leave... Sometimes i ask my self if the admin Play his own game.. if he really dont see that it is a Problem of NA when all the Players are most of time inside their safezone Edited February 27, 2018 by the Kidd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaGeoff Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, z4ys said: Lets say we would change it the way do you suggest. what would happen is everyone wait in port for a battle any nobody would actually sail in ow. Because waiting in port and jumping a battle would be the meta. While everyone is sitting in port no battles would happen. while no battles are around people would logout. When joining a battle was possible, there are often a couple guys around capitals and ports near the capital. Some will sail into the fight. Some guys are crafting or waiting for a group. I might be in Shoud Cay waiting for some buds, the call goes out, I teleport to Cayo Biscano, grab a ship I have there and run out to join the fight. The bad part of that meta was hidden gank fleets. You would put bait out there with guys in a nearby port or logged off at sea. The fight would start and ships would head out or log back in, join the fight and rape the victim. That was a problem at times. But it was a known problem.. Is it 100%, nope. But it added the risk that if a ganker got a mark, there was a good chance that the fight would turn ugly on him. And the closer you were to a port that had a good clan base, the greater the odds you were going to get nicked. Clans didn't all base in the capital port, they often had bases of operations in different ports so that clans kinda did the defense in that area. If you got jumped in Cayo Biscano, X clan would probably help you. If you got jumped in Savannah, Y clan had ships and people based there. Edited February 27, 2018 by IndianaGeoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, the Kidd said: Sometimes i ask my self if the admin Play his own game.. if he really dont see that it is a Problem of NA when all the Players are most of time inside their safezone I have to resort to camping enemy zones and dont pve at all. I am often ignored unless enemy have 7x advantage. What i am saying is that pvp ing - atacking my ship 2v1 or 1v1 is not happening even though sinking my ship might give 10 marks to enemy (which at current prices greatly exceed the cost of building and fitting 2-3 similar vessels. So i will repeat. No reward will force player out of the safety zone. If someone wants pvp he is already out there somewhere - chasing or running. Those who are in the safe zone they dont want out and no incentive will force them. UNLESS pvp is the only way to progress 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 They are camping the next safezone... there are they... Sure if you remove the safezones for bigger Players or bring resources for "building ships" outside the safezone they have a reason to leave it... But aslong the Players can: earn money gather all resources they Need lvling ships in safezone they havent a reason to leave ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trino Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, the Kidd said: Sry guys but the main question is and will be the same (if we go backt to topic). Aslong you havent to leave the safezone you will not get real open world PvP. The admin said this is not a Problem... they have reasons to leave... Sometimes i ask my self if the admin Play his own game.. if he really dont see that it is a Problem of NA when all the Players are most of time inside their safezone I'm just against forceing people to leaving the zones. Admin says there is no real incentive possible because a real carebear ever stays in safezone, even if you promise him a golden kingdom. Maybe! But there are others, that maybe go out of safezones if there is a reward. So why not just double the loot chance of rare books and upgrades outside safezone? Maybe even XP! Edit: really dont read admin posting above before writing this Edited February 27, 2018 by Trino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaGeoff Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Trino said: I'm just against forceing people to leaving the zones. Admin says there is no real incentive possible because a real carebear ever stays in safezone, even if you promise him a golden kingdom. Maybe! But there are others, that maybe go out of safezones if there is a reward. So why not just double the loot chance of rare books and upgrades outside safezone? Maybe even XP! I have always been a defense guy. The times I go out and hunt other players, even if it was a good, fair fight just don't satisfy me. In a fleet running down an enemy coast... not enjoyable if you find action or not. Now sailing with buds up my coast to defend it... love it. I don't like breaking other peoples stuff. I loved the flag era. Everyone that joined in those fight was agreeing to put it at risk for the cause. But going out and looking for a trader or a combat ship to sink when the guy is minding his own business... no, not fun. Not something I have ever gotten joy from. But defense is useless now. Edited February 27, 2018 by IndianaGeoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 But aslong the Players can: earn money gather all resources they Need lvling ships in safezone they havent a reason to leave ... You @admin talking about rewards to leave safezones... yea that is a Problem too but you cant see it... but the biger Problem is still they dont have to leave the safezone... so why should they do that.... if you wanna get a good open world pvp game you have to bring the community to leave the safezone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, the Kidd said: They are camping the next safezone... there are they... Sure if you remove the safezones for bigger Players or bring resources for "building ships" outside the safezone they have a reason to leave it... your theory was disproven 10x times already they will just leave mate. they are not going to sail anywhere if eve removed highsec - online would drop 10x in that game 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) @adminso youre receipt to a successful open world PvP game is, that a Player can do all he Need in safezone ? for sure ??. Why should a Player leave the game if he Need to sail outside the safezone to build a ship ? thats nonsense.. You bring content in this game if you force Player to leave their safezone because you revital the map... I mean the one central question still is open: You dont think ist a Problem that all ressources are avaiable in safezone? You dont think its a Problem that a Player dont have to leave a safezone for earning money or lvling ships to max ? Edited February 27, 2018 by the Kidd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, the Kidd said: so youre receipt to a successful open world PvP game is, that a Player can do all he Need in safezone ? for sure ??. Why should a Player leave the game if he Need to sail outside the safezone to build a ship ? thats nonsense.. You bring content in this game if you force Player to leave their safezone because you revital the map... because people want everything on a silver plate. And when its not served warm they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, the Kidd said: so youre receipt to a successful open world PvP game is, that a Player can do all he Need in safezone ? for sure ??. How many ports have your lord protectorship? You probably forgot that you need victory marks to build ships of the line and you have to conquer ports to get them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Do you read the combat news channel in game? All you will see is ships being sunk. There is plenty of action going on you just need to stop crying on the forums get off your asses and go out and get some. You cant force people to do anything, best way to get people out the safe zones is recruit them into your pvp clans and make good use of them. or provide lucrative game content that will drag people out. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trino Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 minute ago, z4ys said: because people want everything on a silver plate. And when its not served warm they go. Exactly! But since you are not god and can kill them all and create them new, you have to deal with them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 minute ago, admin said: How many ports have your lord protectorship? You probably forgot that you need victory marks to build ships of the line and you have to conquer ports to get them best question... i am playing this game for 2 month have 5 lord protector and more then 20 victorymarks... i dont have to leave the safezone ever again... if i want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, z4ys said: fighting skilled players is no fun because of game mechanics It's not a matter of fun. It's simply that: "why the hell fighting when there is a risk to sink when I can farm helpless carebears in my failfitted fir/fir ship and get PVP marks in huge amounts?". Funny thing is that this kind of PVPer is just like the carebears they accuse: they want easy (PVP mark) farming with no risk. That's the only reason why this kind of players want to take away the safe zones. Edited February 27, 2018 by victor 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 But can you answer my question @admin its just for interess.... I mean the one central question still is open: You dont think ist a Problem that all ressources are avaiable in safezone? You dont think its a Problem that a Player dont have to leave a safezone for earning money or lvling ships to max ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, victor said: It's not a matter of fun. It's simply that: "why the hell fighting when there is a risk to sink when I can farm helpless carebears in a failfitted fir/fir ship and get PVP marks in huge amounts?". Funny thing is that this kind of PVPer is just like the carebears they accuse: they want easy PVP mark farming with no risk. That's the only reason why this kind of players want to take away the safe zones. No it is not... i miss a real open world sandbox PVP mmorpg.... I want to sail around the world want to craft my owen stuff and will permanteny been able to attack/get attacked on open world... thats what i want... a real simulation... nothing against a safezone or a spot for newbys but not a safezone for everyone and all the time Edited February 27, 2018 by the Kidd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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