H2O Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, vazco said: Here's a short anarchist's manual for you: Attack Cartagena with 25 fireship "PvE" 1st rates and blow up enemy's 1sts, just to see them scream Attack a 2400 BR port with 22 PvE 1st rates and 3 standard ones Use 1BR ships to enter hostility missions and blow yourself up. Mix normal 1st rates with "PvE" 1sts Equip 1st rate in a way that it can still be a support ship in PvP, and enter PvP missions sometimes in a standard 1st, sometimes in a "PvE" first. This way you can get marks without any risks, and denying marks to enemy ...more ideas coming in I think admin used word 'restricted' didn't he? I am sure he knows what to restrict. Edited January 25, 2018 by H2O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) Just now, H2O said: You can practice pvp on players. Do you even read Admins post? Ships will not reward you with anything if you sink it and the baby seal who you killed will be angry at you and will call you on public chat - babyseal clubber. This will let all other players know that this famous pvp player fell that low. Unlike in real ship, baby seal will go and cap another ship and will continue his activities. Today when you kill a baby seal he can't afford to restore his loss and simply quit the game. Don't stress too much, NPC cap will maintain healthy numbers and will add new pvpers to our list. That's my point. Leave new players and people who want to PVE safely out of it. You're not helping either side having them get in each others way. Which I can see happening when PVPers who don't PVP solely for marks start attacking these weaker, less skilled captains in their debuffed boats. Edited January 25, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said: That's my point. Leave new players and people who want to PVE safely out of it. You're not helping either side having them get in each others way. You are wrong here. You can't have 100% pvp server, they already tried it and look we are down to 180 players again us time. -150 players so far who do not play anymore. Edited January 25, 2018 by H2O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, vazco said: Here's a short anarchist's manual for you: capture a trader and trade in a ship that doesn't give enemy PvP marks (as noone is interested in cargo itself) ...more ideas coming in Yeah, this 1 BR trash ship plan should not be applied to ships below 4th Rate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) Just now, H2O said: You are wrong here. You can't have 100% pvp server, they already tried it and look we are down to 180 players again. No, but you can have 100% of PVPers agree to the terms of PVP. What I mean is you can have PVE, you can have 100% safe PVE in the PVP server if you separate nations meant to do PVE and nations meant to partake in PVP, without having to compromise between the realness of less than safe PVP/RVR. and the less than safe-ness of..well less than safe PVE in areas where PVP is constantly happening around you and you can't avoid it. Or even just an area of the map where once you enter you're 100% PVE safe until you leave. I don't see anything interesting happening at the gulf. Edited January 25, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, maturin said: Yeah, this 1 BR trash ship plan should not be applied to ships below 4th Rate... Admin said all ships will be capturable with set restrictions (can't attack, can't enter PB, low mast health etc... ) what is wrong with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, H2O said: I think admin used word 'restricted' didn't he? I am sure he knows what to restrict. Sure. Devs never had issues with introducing new exploits with new functionalities. Definitely it's not an issue of an IT project, escpecially a complex game. There's definitely no need to point potential exploits out. Edited January 25, 2018 by vazco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said: No, but you can have 100% of PVPers agree to the terms of PVP. What I mean is you can have PVE, you can have 100% safe PVE in the PVP server if you separate nations meant to do PVE and nations meant to partake in PVP, without having to compromise between the realness of less than safe PVP/RVR. and the less than safe-ness of..well less than safe PVE in areas where PVP is constantly happening around you. Build a wall and remove a risk factor? NPC crap ships will be free , but the risk still be there to make sailing epic. Your strategy will cut customers in 2 types and eventually they will quit the game due to inability to enjoy the same content others enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, H2O said: Admin said all ships will be capturable with set restrictions (can't attack, can't enter PB, low mast health etc... ) what is wrong with this? They'll still be attacked. There goes the idea of safely doing PVE. Unless I'm wrong and they can't be attacked. In which I wonder how long until they're used to troll the enemy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said: They'll still be attacked. There goes the idea of safely doing PVE. Unless I'm wrong and they can't be attacked. In which I wonder how long until they're used to troll the enemy? Safety is in free ship capture. It's same thing as insurance , but requires work. Go out cap 5 ships for free and go enjoy what ever happens to you. You get me? For new guys this is perfect and they will experience that risk without risk. Edited January 25, 2018 by H2O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, z4ys said: I recently expirenced that players use basic cutters to transport their treasures. Not because they are cheap the reason is while they think that people dont attack them when using a ship that offers no reward. Most cutters without the recently killed flags are carrying something interesting if they are commandeered by rear admirals. 50 minutes ago, Liq said: so we will see 25x npc capped santis in PBs of 2400 BR? you cant enter the pb with BR of 1. Minimum requirement is above 40 i believe. You also cannot attack a player with the BR of 1. BUT YOU CAN attack any NPC fleet. 18 minutes ago, vazco said: Here's a short anarchist's manual for you: Attack Cartagena with 25 fireship "PvE" 1st rates and blow up enemy's 1sts, just to see them scream Attack a 2400 BR port with 22 PvE 1st rates and 3 standard ones Use 1BR ships to enter hostility missions and blow yourself up. Mix normal 1st rates with "PvE" 1sts Equip 1st rate in a way that it can still be a support ship in PvP, and enter PvP missions sometimes in a standard 1st, sometimes in a "PvE" first. This way you can get marks without any risks, and denying marks to enemy capture a trader and trade in a ship that doesn't give enemy PvP marks (as noone is interested in cargo itself) ...more ideas coming in cant be done except for point 4, which is fine because the such shabby support ship will only support until the first shot into the masts 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, admin said: Most cutters without the recently killed flags are carrying something interesting if they are commandeered by rear admirals. 8 minutes ago, admin said: you cant enter the pb with BR of 1. Minimum requirement is above 40 i believe. You also cannot attack anyone with the BR of 1. So I can take a pve santi make my hold full of teak logs and sail between my captial impossible to attack zone in a ship that cant even be attacked when out of the zone? Sounds broken to me Edited January 25, 2018 by z4ys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, admin said: you cant enter the pb with BR of 1. Minimum requirement is above 40 i believe. You also cannot attack anyone with the BR of 1. So you can't PvP in a ship you captured from the AI. Which is something I spent time doing yesterday and the day before. This is just another barrier to starting PvP, and further narrowing the scope of what kinds of PvP gameplay are possible and viable. Less of the sandbox remains with every restriction. It's a high price to pay just to please a few players who want to capture AI 1st Rates. So why not apply it to Rates 1-4 only? Then no current gameplay is lost. Quote cant be done Yes, at least #5 can be done. Most trade happens in capped AI trader ships. Now I won't get PvP marks for attacking a trader. And the trader will have even less chance to escape because of no counter-tag opportunity and weak sails. It's a lose/lose. Doing missions already dwarfs the utility of trading when it comes to making money (for the average player who doesn't have fleets of 4 indiamen). So as a result we just further diminish the viability of trading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, z4ys said: So I can take a pve santi make my hold full of teak logs and sail between my captial impossible to attack zone in an ship that cant even be attacked when out of the zone? Sounds broken to me You cannot attack anyone with the BR of one. You can be attacked though. br 1 will have BR too high when trying to attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, H2O said: Build a wall and remove a risk factor? NPC crap ships will be free , but the risk still be there to make sailing epic. Your strategy will cut customers in 2 types and eventually they will quit the game due to inability to enjoy the same content others enjoy. How is it splitting the customers into 2 types? Let me spin you a yarn. We already cut the servers into PVP and PVE. What keep the devs from ignoring the players who want100% safe PVE in a PVP centric server in favor of having a completely free, real, unfiltered PVP experience? Don't give me BS, no PVEr wants to be ganked by an experienced PVPer. Instead of having the devs drop the weight of PVE centrist, and pointing them back to THEIR server, they can be nice and give you guys your own area of the map, where you're free to craft, PVE, set up your own little mini economy within the safezone. Do everything you want without the interference of pesky PVPers. That way we don't have to accommodate your stay on the PVP side of things with limitations, AI, non taggable ships and whatnot. Just don't hurt both sides by trying to keep these two very different sides of the game in the same place. PVP will still have PVE, but it won't be safe so PVE centrist wouldn't want to be a part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anolytic Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, admin said: BR of 1 (no rewards whatsoever for them) which will clearly identify them in the open world, also removing any attacking capability So then we can remove the safezones? Because PvE-players can be safe anywhere by sailing capped NPC-ships which will make it pointless to attack them or jump their battles. Sailing NPC-capped ships will be like a PVE-flag. Edited January 25, 2018 by Anolytic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Anolytic said: So then we can remove the safezones? Because PvE-players can be safe anywhere by sailing capped NPC-ships which will make it pointless to attack them or jump their battles. I'm sure 1 BR ships will still get attacked for entertainment and practice. Also when you screenshot the Tab menu of the 1st Rate you killed in a Surprise, it doesn't show the BR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, maturin said: So you can't PvP in a ship you captured from the AI. Which is something I spent time doing yesterday and the day before. This is just another barrier to starting PvP, and further narrowing the scope of what kinds of PvP gameplay are possible and viable. Less of the sandbox remains with every restriction. It's a high price to pay just to please a few players who want to capture AI 1st Rates. So why not apply it to Rates 1-4 only? Then no current gameplay is lost. Yes, at least #5 can be done. Most trade happens in capped AI trader ships. Now I won't get PvP marks for attacking a trader. And the trader will have even less chance to escape because of no counter-tag opportunity and weak sails. It's a lose/lose. Doing missions already dwarfs the utility of trading when it comes to making money (for the average player who doesn't have fleets of 4 indiamen). So as a result we just further diminish the viability of trading. The best pvp server is when there are no NPCs. This feature brings it closer to this implementation, somewhat. On all other points it depends. I know you can afford to buy a crafted ship. also i know you can capture ships from players regarding traders. I know for a fact (saw on stream) that all indiamans used in BF are built in Gustavia (by players). and trader lynx does not give a lot of marks anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odol Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, admin said: Most cutters without the recently killed flags are carrying something interesting if they are commandeered by rear admirals. Most people dont attack cutters because they are OP with the endless repairs and no cost to the user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesore Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 so, the new captured ships will basically be a safety-net for PVE'rs? They can't attack ... they might aswell not be in the game? Maybe you can call those ships cannonfodder? Will attacking/sinking capped ships give pvp-marks to the attacker? If not, then they are 'safe' ... they might just aswell sail on another server? Useless eyecandy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, Odol said: Most people dont attack cutters because they are OP with the endless repairs and no cost to the user. cutter should get BR 380 too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, Eyesore said: Will attacking/sinking capped ships give pvp-marks to the attacker? If not, then they are 'safe' ... they might just aswell sail on another server? Useless eyecandy? they turn into NPCs from my point of view. but you can still sink them - get loot and 1 pvp and 1 combat mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, Odol said: Most people dont attack cutters because they are OP with the endless repairs and no cost to the user. That's if you're in an aft rigged type ship to even get a tag. Otherwise its bye-bye cutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Anolytic said: So then we can remove the safezones? Because PvE-players can be safe anywhere by sailing capped NPC-ships which will make it pointless to attack them or jump their battles. Sailing NPC-capped ships will be like a PVE-flag. probably yes. thats could be the plan, i need to see how shabby ships work first 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 minute ago, admin said: The best pvp server is when there are no NPCs. This feature brings it closer to this implementation, somewhat. The best pvp server doesn't have safezones. It really doesn't make sense to me that we are chasing that goal, in the context of huge carebear regions for crafters. Try to look at things from my perspective here: having safezones and 1-BR capped ships at the same time is weird. Like we're moving in two directions at once. But both features destroy a form of gameplay that I personally found very enjoyable. It feels like soon we'll only be allowed to play the game the way Russian streamers do. Quote It depends. I know for a fact (saw on stream) that all indiamans used in BF are built in Gustavia (by players). There are no AI indiamen. Most people use free LGVs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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