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Seems like BR1 will actually break a lot more things than it will create
This means that only crafting will change slightly - ship capture will remain as it is now

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Seems like BR1 will actually break a lot more things than it will create
This means that only crafting will change slightly - ship capture will remain as it is now

Oh no. I was actually looking forward to that. I imagine it could solve some problems for us british players, as newer/poorer players might be able to make money faster in a RA Mission with a captured first rate and at the same time get some first experience with ships of the line. I know a lot of newer players who are terribly afraid of losing their expensive crafted or even gifted SoL's and could very hardly afford replacing it, even more so if they are not currently in a clan, which also does not guarantee replacement with the vic marks being so rare these days. (also finding a clan as a PvE focused player can be hard). I hope you will find another way to implement this feature. Maybe they could join fleet practice with captured SoL's which would be fun and teach them how to fight other Players and prepare them for PB's

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3 minutes ago, Jane Kennedy said:

Oh no. I was actually looking forward to that. I imagine it could solve some problems for us british players, as newer/poorer players might be able to make money faster in a RA Mission with a captured first rate and at the same time get some first experience with ships of the line. I know a lot of newer players who are terribly afraid of losing their expensive crafted or even gifted SoL's and could very hardly afford replacing it, even more so if they are not currently in a clan, which also does not guarantee replacement with the vic marks being so rare these days. (also finding a clan as a PvE focused player can be hard). I hope you will find another way to implement this feature. Maybe they could join fleet practice with captured SoL's which would be fun and teach them how to fight other Players and prepare them for PB's

the problems it will create and will require to solve outweighs the benefits. Regarding costs of the fleets. There are trade runs that make 3mln and even more per run and they cover the cost of a good sized fleet if they are crafted.  

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Vor 4 Minuten sagte Jane Kennedy:

Oh nein. Ich habe mich wirklich darauf gefreut. Ich denke, es könnte einige Probleme für uns britische Spieler lösen, da neuere / ärmere Spieler in der Lage sein könnten, in einer RA schneller Geld zu verdienen Ich kenne viele neuere Spieler, die furchtbare Angst davor haben, ihre teuren, handgemachten oder sogar begabten SoLs zu verlieren, und sie könnten es sich nicht mehr leisten, sie zu ersetzen, umso mehr so selten in diesen Tagen. (Auch das Finden eines Clans als PvE-Spieler kann schwierig sein). Ich hoffe, Sie werden einen anderen Weg finden, diese Funktion zu implementieren. Vielleicht könnten sie Flottentraining mit gefangenen SoLs beitreten, was Spaß machen und ihnen zeigen würde, wie man gegen andere Spieler kämpft und sie auf PB vorbereitet

First thing in pvp/pbs is that you should get used to losing stuff

PvE players will allways lose against pvp players you saw that yesterday in wiliams bay.

If you cant replace sol's for pvp go into the bahamas and sail shallowships. You learn the most in small ships anyway.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Seems like BR1 will actually break a lot more things than it will create
This means that only crafting will change slightly - ship capture will remain as it is now

And, just for sake of curiosity, how will craft "slightly" change?

Edited by victor

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8 minutes ago, rediii said:

First thing in pvp/pbs is that you should get used to losing stuff

PvE players will allways lose against pvp players you saw that yesterday in wiliams bay.

If you cant replace sol's for pvp go into the bahamas and sail shallowships. You learn the most in small ships anyway.

Basically yea, personally i find PvP in shallow ships much more dynamic and fun anyway, but each player has their own preferences. Me, my friendlist is filled with players I helped ranking up and supplying ships - and I saw a lot of them slowly quitting after they lost their first ships to an ambush by other players. At least some ships should be capturable again, for example 4th rates. Also let's be honest, ships captured from NPC's aren't that good anyway, mostly Oak/Crewspace or such

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Seems like BR1 will actually break a lot more things than it will create
This means that only crafting will change slightly - ship capture will remain as it is now

Unbelievable, I am out. Your professionalism is impressing me. 

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3 hours ago, admin said:

Seems like BR1 will actually break a lot more things than it will create
This means that only crafting will change slightly - ship capture will remain as it is now

Thanks for listening before making a decision.

 

1 hour ago, rediii said:

If you cant replace sol's for pvp go into the bahamas and sail shallowships. You learn the most in small ships anyway.

That's condemning most of the server population to not to participate in RvR, which is bad.

 

A good solution would be to:

  • have a single universal all-round RvR and PvE 1st-rate available to everyone, but:
  • give players an option to buy more customized ships with VM's (those that are not current meta, just more interesting ones).

Right now the VM system is broken anyway - some small nations already farm alt accounts to get huge amounts of PvP marks, others (like me) farm US and Pirates - and voluntarily exclude themselves from RvR. Some nations farm marks by setting staged battles. 2-3 nations have enough time to not to think about it at all and focus on RvR, having a huge advantage of available time.

VM system failed. The result of introduction of VM's is that:

  •  there's less RvR (eg. Poland stopped doing RvR, many nations stage battles to get marks instead of engaging in RvR)
  • VM's still don't drive nations to wars. Cartagena does. VM's only cause port-swaps.
  • Barriers for RvR increased with introduction of VM - not everyone can do this
  • There are more pointless empty port swaps
  • There's more imbalance between nations - some have free VM's, others have to loose time getting them
  • Game became more complex, with no real added value in return. This is bad for new players.

 

ps. before someone tells me "you can deal with it" - sure, I've already dealt with it. I get 2-3 VM's from a mercenary alt account, 20-40 PvP marks daily from fights, and I could buy a 1st rate every day due to gold I get for trading stuff noone else trades. Still, most people WON'T deal with it.

Edited by vazco

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6 minutes ago, vazco said:

Thanks for listening before making a decision.

 

That's condemning most of the server population to not to participate in RvR, which is bad.

 

A good solution would be to:

  • have a single universal all-round RvR and PvE 1st-rate available to everyone, but:
  • give players an option to buy more customized ships with VM's (those that are not current meta, just more interesting ones).

Right now the VM system is broken anyway - some small nations already farm alt accounts to get huge amounts of PvP marks, others (like me) farm US and Pirates - and voluntarily exclude themselves from RvR. Some nations farm marks by setting staged battles. 2-3 nations have enough time to not to think about it at all and focus on RvR, having a huge advantage of available time.

VM system failed. The result of introduction of VM's is that:

  •  there's less RvR (eg. Poland stopped doing RvR, many nations stage battles to get marks instead of engaging in RvR)
  • Barriers for RvR increased with introduction of VM - not everyone can do this 
  • There are more pointless empty port swaps
  • There's more imbalance between nations - some have free VM's, others have to loose time getting them
  • Game became more complex, with no real added value in return. This is bad for new players.

 

ps. before someone tells me "you can deal with it" - sure, I've already dealt with it. I get 2-3 VM's from a mercenary alt account, 20-40 PvP marks daily from fights, and I could buy a 1st rate every day due to gold I get for trading stuff noone else trades. Still, most people WON'T deal with it.

Is less RvR bad for the sake of more pvp?

the 3 top nation have to play in order to stay top 3. the other have to play to get pvp marks. All are busy. While without VM marks like now  nobody has a real reason to be online. Even rediii came back to the game:D

Edited by z4ys
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4 minutes ago, vazco said:

Thanks for listening before making a decision.

 

That's condemning most of the server population to RvR, which is bad.

 

A good solution would be to:

  • have a single universal all-round RvR and PvE 1st-rate available to everyone, but:
  • give players an option to buy more customized ships with VM's (those that are not current meta, just more interesting ones).

Right now the VM system is broken anyway - some small nations are already farm alt accounts to get huge amounts of PvP marks, others (like me) farm US and Pirates - and voluntarily exclude themselves from RvR. Some nations farm marks by setting staged battles. 2-3 people have enough time to not think about it at all on RvR, having a huge advantage of available time.

VM system failed . The result of the introduction of VM's is that:

  •  there's less RvR (eg, Poland stopped doing RvR, many countries stage battles to get marks instead of engaging in RvR)
  • Barriers for RvR - not everyone can do this 
  • There are more pointless empty port swaps
  • There's more imbalance between nations - some have free VM's, others have to loose time getting them
  • Game became more complex, with no real added value in return. This is bad for new players.

 

ps. "I can deal with it". I get 2-3 VM's from a mercenary account, 20-40 PvP marks daily from fights, and I could buy a 1st rate every day due to gold I get for trading stuff noone else trades. Still, most people WILL NOT deal with it.

Less rvr because BR is still wrong and 1sts are too OP compared to 2nds

I dont see many, even 1 empty portswap in recent days. I saw 1 porttrade of a shalow area to spain from russia.

 

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Just now, z4ys said:

Is less RvR bad for the sake of more pvp?

For me personally - no, I like it, at least for now.

VM's didn't increase PvP though. They just reduced RvR (at least it's epic part, 25 vs 25 1st rate battles).

For the game overall I think it's bad that there's a bigger barrier to enter RvR. It's cutting out a large part of content for a large number of players.

 

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3 minutes ago, z4ys said:

VM system failed. The result of introduction of VM's is that:

  •  there's less RvR (eg. Poland stopped doing RvR, many nations stage battles to get marks instead of engaging in RvR)
  • Barriers for RvR increased with introduction of VM - not everyone can do this 
  • There are more pointless empty port swaps
  • There's more imbalance between nations - some have free VM's, others have to loose time getting them
  • Game became more complex, with no real added value in return. This is bad for new players.

Pretty well summed up. I can't fathom why they brought it back anyways, despite the fact the we even had it before and it failed hard.

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5 minutes ago, vazco said:

For me personally - no, I like it, at least for now.

VM's didn't increase PvP though. They just reduced RvR (at least it's epic part, 25 vs 25 1st rate battles).

For the game overall I think it's bad that there's a bigger barrier to enter RvR. It's cutting out a large part of content for a large number of players.

 

The only barrier I see that the last cant take on the top. Which is fine. Make your progress through the ranks. The current system promotes even nation fights. Its more rewarding for the top 3 to fight each other than stomp a small one. Whats wrong is  that it can be even more rewarding to make deals between euqal nations

Edited by z4ys

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15 minutes ago, H2O said:

Unbelievable, I am out. Your professionalism is impressing me. 

I'm honestly not certain if this is an attempt at humor or not?  They posed an idea, listened to feedback, slept on it, and updated with their thinking afterwards.  Isn't that literally the ideal scenario for developer / player interaction?

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5 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

I'm honestly not certain if this is an attempt at humor or not?  They posed an idea, listened to feedback, slept on it, and updated with their thinking afterwards.  Isn't that literally the ideal scenario for developer / player interaction?

Sometimes you are not able to see the wood for the trees. In my opinion devs did well. The pve ship changes like proposed do more harm than good.

 

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I might repeat myself but nevermind:

Would it ease the pain, if devs gave also 1VM to the players of 4th, 5th and 6th listed nations of the conquest competition?

I‘d hope for the following: This would create bigger chances for smaller nations to get VMs and thus more motivation to participate in RvR.

Even better: If devs nerf the thickness of 1st rates they would be less op against 2nd rates. This would enhance the situation for smaller nations even more.

Edited by Navalus Magnus

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6 minutes ago, rediii said:

Less rvr because BR is still wrong

From my perspective BR-limited PB's increased number and options of RvR greatly, especially for smaller nations. I judge this as a very good addition.

Maybe I didn't understand you though.

 

2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

The only barrier I see that the last cant take on the top. Which is fine. Make your progress through the ranks. The current system promotes even nation fights. Its more rewarding for the top 3 to fight each other than stomp a small one.

In reality a stomp-protection is enforced by leaders of current nations agreeing to not to do this. This protection was active even before VM system.

With VM's it's easier for a large nation to stomp small ones. It's also more profitable, as you can quickly take a few ports in a day, instead of fighting over Cartagena for weeks. In my opinion it's just a matter of time for a new Hitler to appear - someone who will despise current unwritten rules, game a mechanic to his advantage and through his actions destroy large part of server population.

ps. a rumor definitely and surely not related to this - I heard Lord Vicious was thinking of coming back :P 

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1 minute ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Would it ease the pain, if devs gave also 1VM to the players of 4th, 5th and 6th listed nations of the conquest competition?

Yes, it would. Then again, it would make them irrelevant. In such case it's better to remove them.

The only way to make them work would be for them to give something interesting, which however is not changing the balance of forces.

Current quantities are also ridiculous. Getting 3 VM's per week will soon make them useless - just another nuissance if you don't get them automatically, and a small profit if you do.

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2 minutes ago, vazco said:

From my perspective BR-limited PB's increased number and options of RvR greatly, especially for smaller nations. I judge this as a very good addition.

Maybe I did not understand you though.

 

In reality a stomp-protection is enforced by the leaders of the nations. This protection was active even before the VM system.

With VM's it's easier for a large nation to stomp small ones. It's also more profitable, as you can quickly take a few ports in a day, instead of fighting over Cartagena for weeks. In my opinion, it's just a matter of time for a new Hitler to appear.

ps. a rumor definitely and surely not related to this:P 

With wrong BR I mean efficiency of ships compared to BF is wrong. this is why so many 1sts were jsed yesterday.

A fleet of 3rds should have a chance against a fleet of 1sts. atm it hasnt

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Just now, vazco said:

Yes, it would. Then again, it would make them irrelevant. In such cases it's better to remove them.

The only way to make them work would be for them to do something interesting, which is not changing the balance of forces.

Current quantities are also ridiculous. Getting 3 VM's per week will soon make them useless - just another nuissance if you do not get them automatically.

Give 1 mark for the cwh for each port owned a week. redhces 1sts a lot and gives chance for everyone still

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1 hour ago, admin said:

There are trade runs that make 3mln and even more per run and they cover the cost of a good sized fleet if they are crafted.  

3 mln are enough to cover the cost of about five crafted Victories or 10 Bucentaures. Definitely a good sized fleet.

Where is this value supposed to be sunk?! I doubt you dont realise that its not working like this. Sure it doesnt matter now, inflation remains. But after the final wipe you have to control inflation somehow. How are you going to do this without working on serious balancing now?! 

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7 minutes ago, Fargo said:

that its not working like this. Sure it doesnt matter now, inflation remains. 

This is not a monetary policy simulator. We had austerity patch and nobody cared about inflation control. You do/I do/ Majority of players dont.

But as an inflation control proponent you probably understand that if there is an unlimited supply at certain price - price will never go up above that level so there will be no inflation.
Almost all resources (with the exception of rare traded ones) have no inflation potential due to european traders. So prices for those resources will never exceed european traders price.

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18 minutes ago, vazco said:

From my perspective BR-limited PB's increased number and options of RvR greatly, especially for smaller nations. I judge this as a very good addition.

Maybe I didn't understand you though.

 

In reality a stomp-protection is enforced by leaders of current nations agreeing to not to do this. This protection was active even before VM system.

With VM's it's easier for a large nation to stomp small ones. It's also more profitable, as you can quickly take a few ports in a day, instead of fighting over Cartagena for weeks. In my opinion it's just a matter of time for a new Hitler to appear - someone who will despise current unwritten rules, game a mechanic to his advantage and through his actions destroy large part of server population.

ps. a rumor definitely and surely not related to this - I heard Lord Vicious was thinking of coming back :P 

ofc you could capture ports of small nations but you would need more than if you attack an equal enemy. More ports mean more to defend = makes you weaker. If russia spain and sweden would actually fight each other there would be no time to care about less important ports.

 

What we need is to make the penalty and reward for losing ports or taking depending on owned ports. So port trade isnt a thing anymore. And fighting an equal enemy is more rewarding than roflstomp.

by progressing through the conquest ranks a nation will gain access to sols.

Why should someone in the bottom league be able to fight a premier League nation? Isnt it more fun to fight equal?

 

Edited by z4ys

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3 minutes ago, z4ys said:

If russia spain and sweden would actually be a fight for each other there would be no time to care about less important ports.

 

 

Sweden is fighting spain and russia?

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