Where is the honor? Where's the fun?

[Ruy Lopez]

First of all I want to make it clear that what comes next is my personal opinion, and does not represent any group of players, including my clan.

I'm tired of hearing many veteran players that the game is deteriorating and losing players because of the developers, because the changes in the game are almost always to worst. That the game is very hard and that almost all beginners do not last even a week.

Well, my opinion as a quasi-novice is that the game is very good, but that the community of players is destroying it, and I explain why.

A community as small as that of Naval Action is very susceptible to poisoning by the influence of groups of toxic players, even if they are few. And more if the game is not finished, the mechanics are in alpha and you can make use of exploits (we are all aware of the problem of misuse of the Alts).

I call toxic players to those who do not respect the contrary, use all the exploits they can to their advantage, and enjoy ruining playing time to other players. Their motivation is more the revenge than the fun, they only present battle if they are much superior and abuse of all players that they can, not giving time to those that begin to develop like capitans.

I think this is the main reason why rookies leave so quickly, and that fewer and fewer veterans are left.

For me the limit is exceeded when attacking capitans who are training in missions. Missions are the school for those who begin and for those who want to dominate a particular ship, and also the source of income for many, and must be respected by all honorable players. That way we will get many more and better players to fight with.

The best solution is in the Devs side: please, increase the time you cannot attack or be attacked to 5 minutes and / or implement hyper-speed  when leaving a mission.

But we also have a solution: denounce this type of players and publicly showing their shameful actions. From there I'll start myself in this other post:

 

Please forgive my English, it is not my native language.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Ruy Lopez

[Captain Lust]

Everyone knows this actually... i also suggested to name and shame sealclubbers in combat news. Every game has toxic players, it's the sad truth.

[Guest]

While I agree in some aspects that players are to blame for 'gaming the game' as much as they possibly can, it's partly the fault of how the combat mechanics are currently set up.

PvP players vs PvP player -> ~15 knot ships vs ~15 knot ships -> If either side wants to disengage for whichever reason (which is the case in, what, 90% of the engagements?), it turns into an endless chase scene of bow vs stern chasers and sail repairs every now and then.

So naturally, PvPers, gankers, coast guard, whomever, is almost forced to either target slower ships or not even bother - hence PvErs and fully laden traders become the sole target available and countering PvPers in homewaters is a pointless endeavour.

It turns OW PvP into a big fat "meh" for anyone who wants to do more than just gank mission runners, couple that with the crappy hostility system for RvR and there's little else fun to be had.

With the patch they're adding (...or, well, re-implementing) that AI fleets will assist when you're attacked in national waters, but I wonder what will happen in missions.

 

Edit - And meanwhile, the admin seems surprised as to why so few players are interested in PvP at the moment.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Guest

[Captain Lust]

38 minutes ago, Aegir said:

PvP players vs PvP player -> ~15 knot ships vs ~15 knot ships -> If either side wants to disengage for whichever reason (which is the case in, what, 90% of the engagements?), it turns into an endless chase scene of bow vs stern chasers and sail repairs every now and then.

So naturally, PvPers, gankers, coast guard, whomever, is almost forced to either target slower ships or not even bother - hence PvErs and fully laden traders become the sole target available and countering PvPers in homewaters is a pointless endeavour.

It turns OW PvP into a big fat "meh" for anyone who wants to do more than just gank mission runners, couple that with the crappy hostility system for RvR and there's little else fun to be had.

With the patch they're adding (...or, well, re-implementing) that AI fleets will assist when you're attacked in national waters, but I wonder what will happen in missions.

 

Edit - And meanwhile, the admin seems surprised as to why so few players are interested in PvP at the moment.

Current state of the "pvp" game in a nutshell.

[Hodo]

1 hour ago, Aegir said:

Edit - And meanwhile, the admin seems surprised as to why so few players are interested in PvP at the moment.

He is often surprised by many things that he is supposedly paying attention to.  

PVP currently is boring, there is no real pay out for losing, running and even really winning.  

Even in EVE if you lose, and you have your ship insured you will at least get something back for losing.  It still sucks but you dont go insta broke for losing a ship.   

Here if a ship is sunk and you fought back you get NOTHING for losing.  The winner barely breaks even and no one really comes out on top.  It is like the game punishes you for fighting other players.

Then when we add in the fact there is no surrender with terms function in game.  So I cant just give the ship back to the person I just beat if they surrendered it to me.    Sometimes I dont want the ship, I just want the cargo.   

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Hodo said:

 

Well I don't find it all that different from EVE - take it with a grain of salt though since I didn't play it that much and it was years ago.

In the way that insurance only seemed to matter for T1 ships while it was still a pittance for T2 or higher ones, much like in NA where most ships are inexpensive until you get into the ones requiring combat marks and/or expensive refits to make them viable in PvP. It's very easy to for example mass-produce 15-knot fir renos - and even chuck mediums taken from PvE fights - to get some extremely cheap PvP action.

Also in the way that in both games most PvP seems to be done for the fun of it with little hope of making any profit at all, or even break even. More along the lines of making the other guy lose more rather than to gain anything.

[Prater]

5 hours ago, Ruy Lopez said:

I think this is the main reason why rookies leave so quickly, and that fewer and fewer veterans are left.

For me the limit is exceeded when attacking capitans who are training in missions. Missions are the school for those who begin and for those who want to dominate a particular ship, and also the source of income for many, and must be respected by all honorable players. That way we will get many more and better players to fight with.

Please forgive my English, it is not my native language.

Your English is very good.

 

But I agree.  I have been advocating for instant close of missions for a long time.  Yes, it does open up some possibility of minor exploit, of being able to disappear from OW for 90 minutes.  But it closes such a terrible thing where veterans jump in new player missions outside capitals and kill people trying to get established in the game.  The minor exploit is small time compared to what it would fix in my opinion.

 

If people don't want all missions instantly closing, then at least instantly close missions for Master and Commanders and below.  Post Captains and above are veterans, we need to protect those who are just getting established.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Prater

[Barbancourt]

57 minutes ago, Prater said:

 

But I agree.  I have been advocating for instant close of missions for a long time.  Yes, it does open up some possibility of minor exploit, of being able to disappear from OW for 90 minutes.  But it closes such a terrible thing where veterans jump in new player missions outside capitals and kill people trying to get established in the game.  The minor exploit is small time compared to what it would fix in my opinion.

Capital regions should be safe waters anyway. 

 

[Skully]

What you seek may never be found in this game, for

On 9/7/2016 at 7:36 PM, Skully said:

we want to live in a world of conflict, a world of war, a world of the harsh 18th century.

And that brings out the worst in us, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy and pride. (Given the chance we would add lust as well. )

Which is in direct opposition to the values we should hold true, justice, equality, conformity, symmetry and fairness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aequitas

And secretly we love this. We don't want to be judged by Mrs J or our loved ones. For they will call shame upon us.

On 9/2/2016 at 3:49 PM, Skully said:

(Lets not tell how we tied you (sic: Jeheil) up in battle during date night, she might disqualify me. )

Instead we chuckle and quickly set sail again.

[Jorge]

8 hours ago, Ruy Lopez said:

First of all I want to make it clear that what comes next is my personal opinion, and does not represent any group of players, including my clan.

I'm tired of hearing many veteran players that the game is deteriorating and losing players because of the developers, because the changes in the game are almost always to worst. That the game is very hard and that almost all beginners do not last even a week.

Well, my opinion as a quasi-novice is that the game is very good, but that the community of players is destroying it, and I explain why.

A community as small as that of Naval Action is very susceptible to poisoning by the influence of groups of toxic players, even if they are few. And more if the game is not finished, the mechanics are in alpha and you can make use of exploits (we are all aware of the problem of misuse of the Alts).

I call toxic players to those who do not respect the contrary, use all the exploits they can to their advantage, and enjoy ruining playing time to other players. Their motivation is more the revenge than the fun, they only present battle if they are much superior and abuse of all players that they can, not giving time to those that begin to develop like capitans.

I think this is the main reason why rookies leave so quickly, and that fewer and fewer veterans are left.

For me the limit is exceeded when attacking capitans who are training in missions. Missions are the school for those who begin and for those who want to dominate a particular ship, and also the source of income for many, and must be respected by all honorable players. That way we will get many more and better players to fight with.

The best solution is in the Devs side: please, increase the time you cannot attack or be attacked to 5 minutes and / or implement hyper-speed  when leaving a mission.

But we also have a solution: denounce this type of players and publicly showing their shameful actions. From there I'll start myself in this other post:

 

Please forgive my English, it is not my native language.

Learn to play my friend and don't cry...

[deltonos]

Meanwhile ... other players can loose ships without crying and using the BUAambulance:

Fight or surrender... another option is to join PVE server

[Siegfried]

I never had that problem when I played in PvE server. I only say...

[Captain Lust]

11 hours ago, Jorge said:

Learn to play my friend and don't cry...

Sealclubber detected *woop woop woop*. How can he learn when he gets bashed by cowards too afraid to fight enemies on their skill level every time he leaves port? Think about it before you head out to the next clubbing and then unload bullshit like this here 

[Jorge]

17 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

Sealclubber detected *woop woop woop*. How can he learn when he gets bashed by cowards too afraid to fight enemies on their skill level every time he leaves port? Think about it before you head out to the next clubbing and then unload bullshit like this here 

Wow, he must be the only player they've ganked, poor man. The one who does not want the same thing happens to him, that he goes to the PvE. So you better stop talking nonsense.

[Hethwill]

Let's be respectful. Either discuss the particulate aspects pointed by the players, without the silly remarks, or simply do not post at all.

 

[Captain Lust]

14 minutes ago, Jorge said:

Wow, he must be the only player they've ganked, poor man. The one who does not want the same thing happens to him, that he goes to the PvE. So you better stop talking nonsense.

So you think ganking new players is okay and should be part of the game but im the one talking nonsense? Not sure if serious / stupid or just trolling... When the game is finally dead you can go gank some NPC ships because reviews for the game will be so low nobody will want to touch it and people like you are one main reason for it. ( personal remark removed ~please stick to the subject, don't make the players a subject ~mod team )The game needs every new player and you should help them or just leave them alone so they might stay with the game and become opponents worth fighting. It's so sad the devs have to add forts and greenzones everywhere because useless sacks of flesh like you will try to gank new players everywhere...

[Captain Lust]

9 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Let's be respectful. Either discuss the particulate aspects pointed by the players, without the silly remarks, or simply do not post at all.

 

12 hours ago, Jorge said:

Learn to play my friend and don't cry...

I hope it was directed at this comment, mate but thanks either way for your effort. Also i found my analogy pretty fitting and accurate to be honest but whatever...

Edited August 23, 2017 by Captain Lust

[Hethwill]

It was directed at all comments. No discrimination.

[Chakal16]

1 hour ago, Captain Lust said:

So you think ganking new players is okay and should be part of the game but im the one talking nonsense? Not sure if serious / stupid or just trolling... When the game is finally dead you can go gank some NPC ships because reviews for the game will be so low nobody will want to touch it and people like you are one main reason for it. ( personal remark removed ~please stick to the subject, don't make the players a subject ~mod team )The game needs every new player and you should help them or just leave them alone so they might stay with the game and become opponents worth fighting. It's so sad the devs have to add forts and greenzones everywhere because useless sacks of flesh like you will try to gank new players everywhere...

So i guess you have "new player" detector when you are going to attack someone... pffff hypocrisy, everyone in this game was ganked by higher ranks and multiple enemies, so what are you talking about? Try to play PvE then because if the game mechanics are like that is going to happen anyway.

[Captain Lust]

1 minute ago, Chakal16 said:

So i guess you have "new player" detector when you are going to attack someone... pffff hypocrisy, everyone in this game was ganked by higher ranks and multiple enemies, so what are you talking about? Try to play PvE then because if the game mechanics are like that is going to happen anyway.

http://www.navalactionwiki.com/index.php?title=Player_Ranks

You're welcome buddy, glad i could help.

[Chakal16]

15 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

http://www.navalactionwiki.com/index.php?title=Player_Ranks

You're welcome buddy, glad i could help.

So? A Brigadier is a new player? You know the skill of the player only by rank? Meh, everyone fought being a higher or lower rank, there were ppl with more skill being a Captain than a Rear Admiral, and not every time someone was ganked came here to cry about it.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Chakal16

[Captain Lust]

7 minutes ago, Chakal16 said:

So? A Brigadier is a new player? You know the skill of the player only by rank? Meh, everyone fought being a higher or lower rank, there were ppl with more skill being a Captain than a Rear Admiral, and not every time someone was ganked came here to cry about it.

The discussion was about new players in general not only the OP in particular. Good to know you actually read all posts before commenting. If someone is rank 1-3 he is either a new player or a alt and if he is doing pve in a shitty small ship chances are pretty high hes a new player. At rank 5+ it is definitely not sealclubbing anymore but ganking some player with 5+ ships is still pretty cowardly and i wouldn't respect anyone doing it on a regular basis. And thats what the OP is talking about... ganking new players and also cowards that only fight with a big advantage on their side but try to avoid fair fights or even duels... those players make up the majority of players and thus the game is dying / not appealing to anyone who doesn't enjoy Naval Gank Action.

[Chakal16]

Well welcome to Naval Action, i've been ganked by 11+ ships several times and never cried about it, next time you will learn to move in group or use other routes, this is how the game actually works and you only have 3 options, learn about it and accept it, go to PvE, or don't play. Nothing more nothing less.

[Skully]

There is no honor, so it's better not to ask that question.

The only question you could ask is, how can we make being ganked fun?

[George Washington]

26 minutes ago, Skully said:

There is no honor, so it's better not to ask that question.

The only question you could ask is, how can we make being ganked fun?

We can, I will make new topic about it soon. 

Edited August 23, 2017 by George Washington