alts Solving the alt problem, rewarding pvp and generate revenue for the game.

[Demsity]

Hello!

This will probably be a unpopular suggestion but the game is slowly dying. We all know it.

1. Summary
2. Alts
3. Reward PVP
4. Pay2Win?

1. Summary

I see a lot of posts about alts, alt abuse and alt bans. The developers have also stated that this is a big problem at the moment and are desperately trying to solve this. My suggestion is a form of premium currency in the game, lets call them Gems for now. This premium currency can be attained in two ways. 1, By purchase with real money. 2, By ranking highly on the PVP leader board.

Edit* If alts cannot be dealt with, why not provide a better system for the players? Make alts in the game and make it under controlled conditions. *Edit
With Gems a player can:

• Buy cosmetic items for their ships (more in chapter 3. Reward PVP)
• Buy a new character (more in 2. Alts)
• Redeem gems for gold

 

2. Alts

It is my understanding that most people use alts as an economic advantage. Acquiring rare resources, for labour hours and storage. My suggestion is that a player can purchase a second (or third) character on their main account with Gems.

 

The first new character would cost Gems equal to the cost of the full game. The second new character would cost more. The new characters would be tied to the players main character, which includes this:

 

• The new character would be tied to the same faction as the players main character
• They would share warehouses. The players warehouse would be expanded by some amount by doing this. This would make trading between alts a lot easier and make crafting less of a pain. 
• Combat marks would be shared
• New characters cannot join a clan (or proposed war company)

 

As for rare resources I have a suggestion to break the contract monopoly that some players have.
Double the amount of rare resources that gets produces. Half of these can be purchased by contract (as it is now) and the other half can only be purchased directly in the shop. This will allow players to enter the port under smugglers flag and acquire these rare resources, and alts in other nations wont be mandatory to acquire these resources.

This will require that the developers declare that a character on a second steam account is considered illegal, and that second steam character will be banned, and the main character will be punished in some fashion. The forum would open a new section, Report possible alts. This will put the player in question under investigation to find out if the claim is true.
I don´t know what the legal consequentness for this would be, or if its even possible.

Thanks to @Skully for clarifying that a second steam account alt cannot be banned. I still propose that a Gem purchased alt is made with major benefits to a regular alt.

Please feel free to come with sugestions on what those benefits might be.

 
Players with existing alts can make a petition for Gems on the forums. A admin or moderator will be tasked with proving the validity of the claim. If the admin or moderator concludes that the player has an alt (or alts), a redeemable of Gems will be provided to the player.

3. Rewarding PVP

 

As we all know, the PVP rewards are quite small, compared to the much safer and easier PVE. The introduction of Gems as a reward for the PVP leader board would change this dramatically. This would make Gems available in the game other than purchasing it with real money, but only for the top PVP players. 

Besides buying a new character, a number of cosmetic options will be available.

• Paints. Now I was not around when this was a thing but it sounds amazing. Is it possible to bring back or is it a engine limitation ATM?
• Flags. Different nation flags would be available, maybe only clan flags?
• Figureheads. Make the different bow figures actually show up on the ship. This is a lot of work I know, but would be loved by the community. 
• Ship names. Let players players name their own ships, maybe even a visual name on the stern of the ship. There is a lot of posts about this. 
• Feel free to name more suggestions.

The higher the rank on the leader board, the higher the reward. The reward should not be to high. A player should perhaps be top player on the leader board 3 - 4 times to afford to purchase a first new character.

I believe that this would revive the OW PVP, make players fight hard for a top place on the leader board.

I also have a suggestion to avoid players to use gank squads to advance their place on the leader board. If 6 Surprises attack a lonely Surprise, the PVP "points" should be much lower than in a 1v1. This could perhaps be accomplished by making the system take in to account the BR of the battle, and provide penalty's or bonuses depending on the balance of BR in the battle as a whole.

 

 

I don't know if it is possible, but can this be tied to Naval Actions: Legends as well?  Winning in Legends would provide a small amount of gems, to be used in the main game, to make the games promote each other.

 

4. Pay2Win?

 

Some players might call this pay2win. A player with a lot of real money can gain an advantage over a player with less real money. To you I say that this is already happening, its just more cloak and dagger.

It will become pay 2 win, but the premium currency, Gems, will be available by playing the game, promoting PVP in the process.
 

Now some of you might say, "If it can be acquired in the game, no one will purchase Gems with real money". This is wrong, there will always be people buying premium currency. This is the case in so many other games.

This will help the devs get continues money for their game, other than new players purchasing it.

This will also provide a end game for veteran players. Strive to be the best, acquire gems and show every one with cosmetics that you are the PVP king.



Feel free to leave constructive feedback and suggestions.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Demsity
Added part in the summary + updated alt bans

[JobaSet]

Nice try But alts are no were close for the reason this game is failing.  It  just the opposite given cash to the developers to keep game going.

Atl can be a problem, So i can agree with you on that.  but the way you have it you can only play one at a time.  That defeats the reason 99% of the players have one to do something else while you sail for 2 hours.  Take that away.  I would rather not play with the time sinks of sailing in open water.

The socalled alt problem is a made problem from people constantly getting the crap beat out of them.  For over a year and a half Pirates have used hacks or some spectacle ping interpreters to win fights. Its all bullshit Mate.  People lose and they look for a reason, to understand why they keep losing even when it not real.  On pvp2/global we have had to deal with this for over 2 years as pirates.  lol the funny thing is when a Nat comes to the dark side and we show them how we do things they freak out.  90% of every single problem in this game, is lack of understanding the game.  So when people make shit up to many people go with it.

 

1. The real problem is to hard to make money.
2. To much of a grind fest with no content at all I mean none.
3. IT IS 100% player driven is why Alt problem is a thing now. 1/2 year ago it was hacks, before that and in-between was revenge ganks list to long but u can almost set a calendar to is about 7-9 weeks.  It is what you get when all you have to do is turn one color different.  The forums make up about 60% content created for all the servers.  While the nation getting beat makes up about 35%.  While the last remaining 5% are JUST the criers and followers of the criers.  Any one of these can start a chain reaction that gets out of control real fast as people join the band wagon.  But mainly they are just plain bullshit. Propaganda to see if they can get something fixed the way they want it.  Believe it or not it works more than it don't.

Edited August 7, 2017 by JobaSet

[Demsity]

2 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

Nice try But alts are no were close for the reason this game is failing.  It  just the opposite given cash to the developers to keep game going.

Atl can be a problem, So i can agree with you on that.  but the way you have it you can only play one at a time.  That defeats the reason 99% of the players have one to do something else while you sail for 2 hours.  Take that away.  I would rather not play with the time sinks of sailing in open water.

The socalled alt problem is a made problem from people constantly getting the crap beat out of them.  For over a year and a half Pirates have used hacks or some spectacle ping interpreters to win fights. Its all bullshit Mate.  People lose and they look for a reason, to understand why they keep losing even when it not real.  On pvp2/global we have had to deal with this for over 2 years as pirates.  lol the funny thing is when a Nat come to the dark side and we show them how we do things they freak out.  90% of every single problem in this game, is lack of understanding the game.  So when people make shit up to many people go with it.

 

1. The real problem is to hard to make money.
2. To much of a grind fest with no content at all I mean none.
3. IT IS 100% player driven is why Alt problem is a thing now. 1/2 year ago it was hacks, before that and in-between was revenge ganks list to long but u can almost set a calendar to is about 7-9 weeks.  It is what you get when all you have to do is turn one color different.  The forums make up about 60% content created for all the servers.  While the nation getting beat makes up of about 35%.  While the last remaining 5% are the criers and followers of the criers.  Any one of these can start a chain reaction that gets out of control real fast as people join the band wagon.  But mainly they are just plain bullshit. Propaganda to see if they can get something fixed the way they want it.  Believe it or not it works more than it don't.

I dont recall me saying that alts is the reason the game is failing.

Look at many of the suggestions, by the players and devs, most of them come to the same conclusion. The proposed featured cannot be introduced due to a possibility for alt abuse.

And if you have a problem with OW sailing, this game might not be for you, just saying.

And as I stated, Its my understanding that most people use alts as an economic advantage, and if cloak and dagger alts cant be dealt with, why not indroduce a controlled, better way to have a alt.

[seanjo]

What the hell is a spectacle ping interpreter?

[JobaSet]

1 minute ago, Demsity said:

I dont recall me saying that alts is the reason the game is failing.

Look at many of the suggestions, by the players and devs, most of them come to the same conclusion. The proposed featured cannot be introduced due to a possibility for alt abuse.

And if you have a problem with OW sailing, this game might not be for you, just saying.

And as I stated, Its my understanding that most people use alts as an economic advantage, and if cloak and dagger alts cant be dealt with, why not indroduce a controlled, better way to have a alt.

5.  The ATLS will never go away as long a Pirate den is not the same as a Nations.

[Demsity]

2 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

5.  The ATLS will never go away as long a Pirate den is not the same as a Nations.

I agree, this will also require addressing.

[JobaSet]

9 minutes ago, seanjo said:

What the hell is a spectacle ping interpreter?

yea that was a thing we could look at you and make your game crash.  Not going to look the link up way to many Vids from US and Brits talking about it in a pb.  The best part about a US/Britt battle is listening to them talk.  So you can leave it in back ground make up shit radio. Will admit I helped this one along a little with my stream. Forgot the bounce hack

Edited August 7, 2017 by JobaSet

[Skully]

1 hour ago, Demsity said:

This will require that the developers declare that a character on a second steam account is considered illegal, and that second steam character will be banned, and the main character will be punished in some fashion. The forum would open a new section, Report possible alts. This will put the player in question under investigation to find out if the claim is true.
I don´t know what the legal consequentness for this would be, or if its even possible.

Not legally possible.

On 8/4/2017 at 11:40 AM, admin said:

you can't hang traitors. Its against steam eula.

On 7/12/2017 at 0:53 PM, Skully said:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/311310/discussions/1/143388344304613939/

And moreover ruling 257572/16/NL from ECC, EU customers are subject only to Steam EULA and EU law. Tribunal rules only apply to accounts on forum.game-labs.net.

I'm perfectly fine with kitchen-lawyering and playing it through the Tribunal, but at some point reality kicks in.

 

[Demsity]

2 minutes ago, Skully said:

Not legally possible.

 

As I suspected, Then I propose that the Gems bought characters have significant advantages that a second steam account character cannot have. Such as shared warehouse, shared marks.

[Skully]

2 minutes ago, Demsity said:

As I suspected, Then I propose that the Gems bought characters have significant advantages that a second steam account character cannot have. Such as shared warehouse, shared marks.

Second problem: you can not detect a second account (if the alter is properly set up).

In effect your suggestion makes no difference to the current situation.

We just need to address mechanics to provide players the same capabilities as an alter (to a point).

For example: why can I not place contracts in an enemy port? It's like showing up in an enemy port battle without guns.

[Demsity]

3 minutes ago, Skully said:

Second problem: you can not detect a second account (if the alter is properly set up).

In effect your suggestion makes no difference to the current situation.

We just need to address mechanics to provide players the same capabilities as an alter (to a point).

For example: why can I not place contracts in an enemy port? It's like showing up in an enemy port battle without guns.

I believe it can still make a difference. Many players cannot run 2 copies of naval action at the same time. My proposed system still provides an alternative way to have a alt. A way to have an alt without buying the game twice, not having the troubles and inconvenience of having to deal with two (or more) steam accounts. People are lazy and I believe that many players would choose an alt that is linked to the same steam account.

[JobaSet]

30 minutes ago, Demsity said:

I believe it can still make a difference. Many players cannot run 2 copies of naval action at the same time. My proposed system still provides an alternative way to have a alt. A way to have an alt without buying the game twice, not having the troubles and inconvenience of having to deal with two (or more) steam accounts. People are lazy and I believe that many players would choose an alt that is linked to the same steam account.

If you can run this game at around 30 fps then you can easy run A SECOND ACCOUNT ON SAME COMPUTER.  will no ill effects.  Some of the big boy computers can in theory (fact, but not me) can run about 8 or more at one time on 1 computer no effect.

[Demsity]

1 minute ago, JobaSet said:

If you can run this game at around 30 fps then you can easy run A SECOND ACCOUNT ON SAME COMPUTER.  will no ill effects.  Some of the big boy computers can in theory (fact, but not me) can run about 8 or more at one time on 1 computer no effect.

I can run Naval Action around 30 fps and can not run 2 copies, so your argument is invalid. I know of at least 2 other players with the same issue.

My main argument still stands, for convenience sake, I believe that an alt on the same steam account would be preferred.

52 minutes ago, Mrgoldstein said:

You can always trade them with your alt towards your main account, wich has the biggest advantage, wich is you can play it at the same time.

Alts exist because the grind is too high, and ow sailing for hours is boring, im not gonna watch te back of my lgv for 2 hours sailing from kpr to belize..i run a course and go do the fun stuff (combat) at my main account..

Yesterday i went to look for pvp sailed 3 hours without finding anyone..how fun..atleast i made some money with my trade alt in the meantime..

And for long OW travel time, watch a movie or something. A traders life during this period was boring, but is represented quite well in game. Trips that would take weeks takes hours.

People seem to forget that this is in fact a MMO. MMO´s take a long time, and you should not be the most wealthy, best equipped player easily.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Demsity said:

I dont recall me saying that alts is the reason the game is failing.

Look at many of the suggestions, by the players and devs, most of them come to the same conclusion. The proposed featured cannot be introduced due to a possibility for alt abuse.

And if you have a problem with OW sailing, this game might not be for you, just saying.

And as I stated, Its my understanding that most people use alts as an economic advantage, and if cloak and dagger alts cant be dealt with, why not indroduce a controlled, better way to have a alt.

The way to fix alt abuse/exploits is to be harsh on punishments with them.  Stop trying to make all the rules around folks that exploits.  The reason we don't get XP for damage cause folks grinding alts.  The 1 hour recently kill should solve that and if folks are caught give out char bans for them.   This is one thing that would make the grind way easier for new players and folks grinding out ships trying to get slots.

1 hour ago, seanjo said:

What the hell is a spectacle ping interpreter?

Also known as a Lag Switch.  The only real way to use one is if your hosting the game on your own computer, not a server side game like Naval Action. Which shows even more how much these folks have no clue what they are talking about when they blame there poor game skills on some one hacking or cheating.

Lag Switch

Noun:1. A device used to intentionally slow or completely stop data flow from the modem to the computer/gaming console for a short period of time. In online games, using a lag switch will allow you to become momentarily invincible. Your opponents are very easy to kill if you use a lag switch. Most leagues and ladders prohibit lag switches and consider them as cheating. 2. A device that lets you cheat in online games.
Verb:1. To use a lag switch to own an opponent. 2. A joking way of saying your going to kick some ass. Does not really mean you plan to cheat.

Either definition of both the Noun and Verb can be used depending on the context.
Noun: That guy lags out everytime I shoot at him! Lag switch alert!
Verb: That guys been camping all game! Time to lag switch that hoe!

[Anolytic]

While some people would say that this game is already pay2win because of econ alts, that is an inevitable consequence of the Steam EULA and players jumping through the hoops of having more than one Steam Account. Your proposal, with an in-game currency costing real life money that would give significant advantages to gameplay, would make this game pay2win by design. No. Simply no. Designing this game around a pay2win experience would drive away a lot of players.

[Demsity]

1 minute ago, Anolytic said:

While some people would say that this game is already pay2win because of econ alts, that is an inevitable consequence of the Steam EULA and players jumping through the hoops of having more than one Steam Account. Your proposal, with an in-game currency costing real life money that would give significant advantages to gameplay, would make this game pay2win by design. No. Simply no. Designing this game around a pay2win experience would drive away a lot of players.

Read through my proposal again.

The only real advantage that the players who pay real money would get, is more gold. Since alts already exists this would not change. Cosmetic stuff don´t make the game pay2win.

They would get no real advantage other than gold, which a dedicated player have no problem getting themselves.

 

6 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The way to fix alt abuse/exploits is to be harsh on punishments with them.  Stop trying to make all the rules around folks that exploits.  The reason we don't get XP for damage cause folks grinding alts.  The 1 hour recently kill should solve that and if folks are caught give out char bans for them.   This is one thing that would make the grind way easier for new players and folks grinding out ships trying to get slots.

My point exactly, but since the Steam EULA prevents harsh actions against players who use alts this way, its not really an option.

[Fellvred]

If alts are as large a problem as they seem I think we need to first look at why people are creating alts:  Extra labour hours, cheap storage, extra building/resource/ship slots, and long (boring) sailing hours.

 

Personally I don't think the current mechanic of gaining resources really adds anything to the game. A much more interesting way (for some people) would be some sort of active system similar to EvE online etc.  e.g. if you wanted some oak you would sail to an oak node/zone/forest and start collecting the resource. This could be done via a simple minigame or just have respawning points along the coast which could be balanced to control the flow of resources much easier than it is at the moment. 

Don't limit the number of storage or ship slots - it just irritates players and encourages alts.

Get rid of labour hours and limit crafting merely by gold and resources alone. Crafting small ships would stay very cheap in gold (and resources) while larger ships would have a much larger gold cost added to the list of resources - creating a much needed gold sink for the veteran players.

If people want to actively run two characters at the same time good luck to them - both characters would be in danger rather than having one 'passive' character in the background constantly.

 

 

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

37 minutes ago, Demsity said:

My point exactly, but since the Steam EULA prevents harsh actions against players who use alts this way, its not really an option.

I said punish those that use Exploits and you don't need an alt to do that.  There is nothing wrong with having Econ alts, it's the same as me having my three char or 5 guys that have a small clan. They by right should still out produce me if they work together as a team. I just have more control over my three man team than they do of there 5 man.  As for fights if you can't beat one guy playing two chars  when your two players than the issue isn't the alts, it's your own gaming skills. The guy playing multi accounts at one time is more distracted and has to do more things and more than likely to make more mistakes cause of it.   So can't use that as an excuse and use I have been in two fights at the same time with two different chars it is not fun.

The bans I speak of is not for having an alt, it's for breaking rules and exploiting which one doesn't need alts to do that.

[Demsity]

54 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The way to fix alt abuse/exploits is to be harsh on punishments with them.

You did say alt abuse.

But I get your point and I agree.

[Vizzini]

The most obvious way to reduce the number of alts would be having a subscription. Most players rightly would balk at that. Going forward , alts are going to be less of a problem if we end up with corporations and clans fighting each other IMHO . It won't be so easy to listen in on Nation Chat , sail on the OW with your nation not being able to sink you.

Lets be honest, there is a real paranoia about alts and what they are achieving in game right now. Most of them are wheeled out once per day or so to craft. The Devs aren't going to turn down an income stream, which is why they are so prevalent in the first place. Alts are helping development of the game, yes there are unintended side effects but the genie is out of the bottle now and he's not going back in.

 

See how things pan out if we see some changes to how the game is played

[JobaSet]

59 minutes ago, Demsity said:

I can run Naval Action around 30 fps and can not run 2 copies, so your argument is invalid. I know of at least 2 other players with the same issue. Before I got my new computer, I ran it on my laptop would get 20 fps and could easy get my main and my alt going.

My main argument still stands, for convenience sake, I believe that an alt on the same steam account would be preferred.

ok now I understand you don't know how to get a alt working on one computer and if you don't understand that. Your alt problem, you are complaining about is mute sorry mate do some research.

[Demsity]

4 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

ok now I understand you don't know how to get a alt working on one computer and if you don't understand that. Your alt problem, you are complaining about is mute sorry mate do some research.

I do not currently know no, but with some 5-10 minutes of googleing I would know. It drains to much on my quite weak processor and that is why I cannot have 2 games running at the same time. I probably could but it would not be enjoyable. And I know for a fact that quite a lot of players have quite poor computers.

But this is not the topic of my post. So if we could divert to the topic I would be much obliged.

[JobaSet]

12 minutes ago, Demsity said:

I do not currently know no, but with some 5-10 minutes of googleing I would know. It drains to much on my quite weak processor and that is why I cannot have 2 games running at the same time. I probably could but it would not be enjoyable. And I know for a fact that quite a lot of players have quite poor computers.

But this is not the topic of my post. So if we could divert to the topic I would be much obliged.

I am sorry but it is.... and points to the Hive bullshit problem.  You can't do it and some one else can.  SO its bad, "you have an advantage over me, So your bad".  No reason to even post anymore you are bitter because you fell for someone else bull shit that Alts are the only way to play the game. You are pissed because you can't do it or can't figure out how to do it.  So you want to change the game.  Its not really an advantage just something else to do while your playing Naval No Action.

I was pretty sure that was the case when I 1st posted but gave you chance.

Edited August 7, 2017 by JobaSet

[Demsity]

9 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

I am sorry but it is.... and points to the Hive bullshit problem.  You can't do it and some one else can.  SO its bad, "you have an advantage over me, So your bad".  No reason to even post anymore you are bitter because you fell for someone else bull shit that Alts are the only way to play the game. You are pissed because you can't do it or can't figure out how to do it.  So you want to change the game.  Its not really an advantage just something else to do while your playing Naval No Action.

I don´t want to do it, even if I could I would not do it. This is about solving a problem that the devs have. I don´t mind alts, if people wanna buy a game twice, go ahead.

I see so many good suggestions on the forums, thinking "that would be so awesome to see in the game". As the discussions go on, the suggestion becomes broken. The reason is often that it can be abused by alts.

I want to be able to get a reward after a good PVP fight, even if I loose. I cant because it can be abused by alts.

So drop your toxic bullshit just because someone has an idea that interferes with your way of playing the game.

Alts have never done anything do diminish my experience of this game, but its holding the development back right now because it can be abused and is being abused.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Demsity

[Sella]

Hardware fingerprint. One account per PC. If you have more than one then fine