Hotfix 1 for patch 10.3

[Wigermo]

1 hour ago, OldJeb said:

Just remove battle and make a real open world and you will have a real PVP.

Demasted at sea without repair = uninstall

[OldJeb]

3 hours ago, Wigermo said:

Demasted at sea without repair = uninstall

Or go playing My little Pony.

Edited June 29, 2017 by OldJeb
Quote missied

[Hodo]

10 hours ago, Farrago said:

This might actually work as long as other ships were invisible to the invisible player. No sneaking up or regrouping while invisible. 

That could be interesting.. but seeing as some of my battles with a Lynx can last upwards of 30-40min, I can sail from Cayo Biscayno to Wilmington NC in that time.

[Cmdr RideZ]

HC means that you have to do plenty of PvE grind (Trade,Crafting,PvE) to be able to play PvP.  In PvP you lose ships fast.  Since "HC" -> Win or be ready to grind tremendous amounts more.

PvP is ganking oriented, everything in this game supports ganking.  If that is not ganking, it is revenge ganking.

1 dura could work if we had plenty of ships in shops.  Economy should be built so that you go to PVP, you lose a ship, you buy another and sail to PvP.  If you cannot do that, it is hard to find targets.  As losing a ship sets you back couple days.  It is also hard to motivate yourself back to World Of Grind.

Books and upgrades are RNG drops, and already stated many times that this is a fail.

Huge upgrade bonuses made those to be very important, very expensive -> Ships are very expensive to lose.

Huge Book/Upgrade bonuses made this gear based, not skill based.

Multirepairs made this Mass > Skill

etc.

Motivation to play NA is not high

[Cmdr RideZ]

One more thing...

No reward if you lose a fight?  This is really bad GAME design.

[Grundgemunkey]

9 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

One more thing...

No reward if you lose a fight?  This is really bad GAME design.

rewards for losing ..????   really

why should you get a reward for losing ....its a liberal concept that Ive never understood in games or real life

[Cmdr RideZ]

6 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

rewards for losing ..????   really

why should you get a reward for losing ....its a liberal concept that Ive never understood in games or real life

It is a fact, nothing more.

You do not have to motivate winners to stay in game, but you have to motivate losers.  If losers lose their motivation, there will be less targets for winners -> Empty servers.

I can see perfectly that devs do not understand this concept.  This makes me worried, as game developers really should understand this kind of basic concepts.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[Cmdr RideZ]

13 minutes ago, vata said:

great idea...

like an insurance for your lost ship etc...

Every game developer should know that idea, as it is a very important concept to keep their servers full.  Devs were at some point trying to understand why people leave after 10 hours of gameplay.  It seems like that they never really understood.

Insurance is one option, it is how many games are handling this.  It is not the only one.  It could be also so that our economy runs well.  This means that crafters craft ships and they actually start to sell those.  Competition between crafters and prices go down.  Ships are cheap and it does not matter that much if you lose a ship, you can buy a new one and you are back in business.

If ships were cheaper, people have more ships, when they have enough ships they can afford to lose one or more.  Then they sail to PvP.  So basically devs should try to boost the economy to support constant war.  They need T-34 factory that is pushing ships out 24/7, so that we can sail those directly out from factory and get wrecked.

Port Battles should be rate and/or BR limited.  People want to have even Port Battles, so they go there only when they have full 1st rate fleet.  The idea to make 1st rates rare does not work, it just means that people do not sail at all.  If they set a limit like 1x1st rate, 4x2nd rate, 12x3rd, ...  This will boost RvR as you do not need that many 1st rates.  Wars will be cheaper -> More RvR.

For OW PvP, it is and it was obvious that people do not want to sail a pickle.  They want to sail a Surprise because it is slightly OP for gank wars.  5th rates in general should be devs pickles, else the game may have difficult times in the future.  There are not many who want to sail a pickle.  Even if devs want to balance it this way, it does not mean that it is going to be like that.  People just quit the game.

 

We need total war economy, not total peace economy.

[Cmdr RideZ]

Ship specific XP also sucks balls.

I have to now sail one specific ship always. I really do not see any sense in this. There are plenty of ships and I have to choose one to sail?  Why?  I want to have fun, and when I get bored to one ship I can try another one.

[The Wren]

3 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Port Battles should be rate and/or BR limited.  People want to have even Port Battles, so they go there only when they have full 1st rate fleet.  The idea to make 1st rates rare does not work, it just means that people do not sail at all.  If they set a limit like 1x1st rate, 4x2nd rate, 12x3rd, ...  This will boost RvR as you do not need that many 1st rates.  Wars will be cheaper -> More RvR.

 

We need total war economy, not total peace economy.

The current PB ratings only mean that you will need 25 of the top allowed ship in order to be competitive in a PB. Watching a PB of 50 of the exact same ships is unbelievably stupid and completely phony.

I've always felt that there should be limits of what how many of each type of ship that should be allowed in a Port Battle. 50 Aggys in a PB is ridiculous. If the limits were say 5 Line Ships, 5 4th rates, 5 5th rates and then 10 of everything else. (I'm just going off the top of my head here to illustrate. Don't go crazy over these numbers!  )

I think that would make PB's much more accessible to every player. As it stands now, why would I go to a Line Ship rated PB if I don't have a SOL? I guess I'm stuck trying to get into shallow water PBs for the rest of my career?

[Cmdr RideZ]

And now that I started to cry a river...

When they said we go 1 dura, they said that ships will be also cheaper.  Soon a copper plating will cost 10m, because none has energy to grind those bots.  Basically ship prices went sky high.  Also I had to buy 10m Gold Marines just once, not every time I lose a ship.

1dura is ok, if I can go to capital and see at least 5x more 5th rates than before this, and prices are 1/5, when ship + cannons + those rare permanent upgrades are summed together.

More gear to make war means that there will be more people for RvR and OW PvP.  Less gear means that we grind more trade/craft/PvE.

Do we want this to be a Wargame or FarmVille?

[Mrdoomed]

On 6/27/2017 at 7:03 AM, Daguse said:

The only time I really see this is an issue is if there is an overwhelming force outside of yours battle. If there is shouldn't you be sunk? If you head to enemy waters and the enemy mounts a force to hunt you down, they should be able to take you out. If it is in home waters, then you need to work with your nation to stop the enemy from mounting such a large force in your waters. If you don't want to get ganked, don't put yourself in a situation that it can happen. 

 

Why? TP to FP only supports the idea of ganking and no recourse. If you TP to a Freeport that is not in your nation's waters, then you are hunting or trading in those waters. You should be open to attack any time you are in enemy waters. 

 

It sounds like you want to be able to safely hunt enemy waters and not worry about the enemy mounting a counter attack. 

Because with unlimited teleports that means ANY port no matter how far from the factions capital is basically the capitals water. Once the game is set up for a few months players have outposts all over the map because its easy to do then all theu have to do is teleport to ANYWHERE there is a friendly ship being attacked. 

Unless of course you think that you should only hunt bad guys who are in your own waters but then thats the same thing only reverse.  No cooldown teleports ruined this game months ago and the decision to hold that thought sank NA and it will never recover.

This game is only going to be for the most hard core clan/hive minded players who enjoy massive battles only.

[Daguse]

35 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

Because with unlimited teleports that means ANY port no matter how far from the factions capital is basically the capitals water. Once the game is set up for a few months players have outposts all over the map because its easy to do then all theu have to do is teleport to ANYWHERE there is a friendly ship being attacked. 

Unless of course you think that you should only hunt bad guys who are in your own waters but then thats the same thing only reverse.  No cooldown teleports ruined this game months ago and the decision to hold that thought sank NA and it will never recover.

This game is only going to be for the most hard core clan/hive minded players who enjoy massive battles only.

See I think they can balance the Hardcore aspect of it. Adding in Raids with a lower 6-12 man cap in a similar way they had the old flag system would go a long ways. As well as balancing the defense of national waters with the ability to attack players in enemy waters.  You can't let the defenders, ie. revenge fleet can't run rampant, however, nations should be able to defend their waters. Its all about balance. 

You can't remove revenge fleets and add FP TP, that gives the attackers too much advantage. 

[Mrdoomed]

30 minutes ago, Daguse said:

See I think they can balance the Hardcore aspect of it. Adding in Raids with a lower 6-12 man cap in a similar way they had the old flag system would go a long ways. As well as balancing the defense of national waters with the ability to attack players in enemy waters.  You can't let the defenders, ie. revenge fleet can't run rampant, however, nations should be able to defend their waters. Its all about balance. 

You can't remove revenge fleets and add FP TP, that gives the attackers too much advantage. 

A cooldown on teleports allows nations to defend thier waters but makes them actually think about how far they teleport before they do it. As itnis it is now 15 guys with alt can take over the map with ease because they can teleport anywhere as fast as they want ( once established ) and this is a fact because it happenedon  pvp2 and was happening again by same clan on global when i stopped playing again.

A simple cooldown forces factions to stay within thier means and if they do spread out it makes them acually play in the " zones" they go conquer or at least think long and hard before wasting thier only teleport for 3 hours on a teleport to go revenge gank a lone sailor.

It is what it is and the devs would rather let NA fail then rethink the idea but the facts stand.

[Hodo]

38 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

A cooldown on teleports allows nations to defend thier waters but makes them actually think about how far they teleport before they do it. As itnis it is now 15 guys with alt can take over the map with ease because they can teleport anywhere as fast as they want ( once established ) and this is a fact because it happenedon  pvp2 and was happening again by same clan on global when i stopped playing again.

A simple cooldown forces factions to stay within thier means and if they do spread out it makes them acually play in the " zones" they go conquer or at least think long and hard before wasting thier only teleport for 3 hours on a teleport to go revenge gank a lone sailor.

It is what it is and the devs would rather let NA fail then rethink the idea but the facts stand.

The teleport option is really the only good option for some.  The problems without it in a game like this is, well it can take a half of a day to sail from one end to the other.   I am not a huge fan of it, but it is a necessary evil with the current state of the game.

IF we had 4-10k players I would say get rid of the teleports, but until that happens we need them to have any real action anywhere.  I know I have no problem sailing 30-60min somewhere, I do it all the time.  BUT I also sail smaller faster open world ships than most.  

[PG Monkey]

I'd like to see no teleports tested (apart from the emergency nearest port one)  

[Mrdoomed]

11 hours ago, Hodo said:

The teleport option is really the only good option for some.  The problems without it in a game like this is, well it can take a half of a day to sail from one end to the other.   I am not a huge fan of it, but it is a necessary evil with the current state of the game.

IF we had 4-10k players I would say get rid of the teleports, but until that happens we need them to have any real action anywhere.  I know I have no problem sailing 30-60min somewhere, I do it all the time.  BUT I also sail smaller faster open world ships than most.  

I have never bought into the idea that we have to have teleports because it takes all day to cross the map. It only takes all day to cross the map if you feel the odd reason or need ton sail the entire map every time you log on. Thats akin to me saying i need to be awarded 500 iron every ship i loot because otherwise it will take me all day to get 500 iron a 1 ship per 30 minutes.  

Ive seen the reasoning that if we had more players teleport could go away BUT like i said to those people,  we used to have 1400 on our serve till the teleport ran them off. Now its the catch 22 of nobody will play ( including me) because teleports allow to many exploits against the solo or small time player but teleports wont be taken away till players come back...ie catch 22.

My theory is this, the game was a smashing success when w had 4 hour cooldowns and though a few people bitches they couldnt sail the carrebean in an hour most people loved it and it wasnt untill no cooldown teleports where added that the population crashed immediately  (not a coincidence )and has never come back. We have tried it the devs way of instant travel and the game is dead and been dead since a few weeks after they was implemented.  How about we test it with cooldown on tp and then allow players to tp to freeports again but keep the no ship teleports. 

Not sure what the devs have to lose at this point considering the game is doa before the a unless you like playing an ant colony simulator and belong to one of the big hives.

[Cmdr RideZ]

There should be BR balancing for OW PvP.  Battles left open for weaker side until balanced.

Would be a very good step forward from pure gank PvP.

[Hodo]

1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

There should be BR balancing for OW PvP.  Battles left open for weaker side until balanced.

Would be a very good step forward from pure gank PvP.

Tried that... doesnt really work.  

You end up with someone in a Pickle vs a Trader brig, which is a 30v10 BUT the T-Brig has 16 guns now and stern chasers, while the Pickle has 12.    Or a Lynx vs a T-Snow, 30 vs 10 BR, and the Lynx has 8 guns vs the T-Snows 26.  

So now a Renomee jumps into the fight,  now you have 110+10 VS 30....  

Or you have the inverse situation.

A Rattlesnake attacks a LGV (not that we have Rattlesnakes) so BR50 vs110,   So again the Rattlesnake can EASILY deal with a LGV, but now a Surprise can jump in with the Rattlesnake and help obliterate the already horribly over matched LGV.

[akd]

Bring back signal perk and make it work for defender only.

Also the specific issue of trader BR post full-armament is something that needs to be addressed by the devs.

Edited July 1, 2017 by akd

[Cmdr RideZ]

Battle balancer after battle join timer will work for sure. It is simply too obvious solution that hard to understand why it has not been tested in general. It probably has to be a bit more than pure BR balancer, but should not be too hard. For example, if you have Constitution vs 3x Surprise, Constitutions side should get another Constitution in. Could also be so that defenders side can always get 1 friendly in, simply decreases ganking. I am pretty sure they could create a nice system.

The biggest issue is that devs announced that there shall be no fair fights, fair fights are for Legends. Now we basically wreck the current game, we make it like EVE and EVE PvP sucks. They had a better concept than what Arena and EVE like games have, but I suppose that no. EVE PvP is pure gank PvP, it is the worst possible PvP I have played. Could be a reason why EVE is and always will be a niche game.

I gank someone with my friends 4vs1. Only a carebear PvP player would not want to balance this fight. Even after 60 minutes would be 100% fine.

When you are about to improve something, but it is not like the rest, cannot do that.

[Captain corn blower]

On 6/30/2017 at 10:08 PM, Mrdoomed said:

I have never bought into the idea that we have to have teleports because it takes all day to cross the map. It only takes all day to cross the map if you feel the odd reason or need ton sail the entire map every time you log on. Thats akin to me saying i need to be awarded 500 iron every ship i loot because otherwise it will take me all day to get 500 iron a 1 ship per 30 minutes.  

Ive seen the reasoning that if we had more players teleport could go away BUT like i said to those people,  we used to have 1400 on our serve till the teleport ran them off. Now its the catch 22 of nobody will play ( including me) because teleports allow to many exploits against the solo or small time player but teleports wont be taken away till players come back...ie catch 22.

My theory is this, the game was a smashing success when w had 4 hour cooldowns and though a few people bitches they couldnt sail the carrebean in an hour most people loved it and it wasnt untill no cooldown teleports where added that the population crashed immediately  (not a coincidence )and has never come back. We have tried it the devs way of instant travel and the game is dead and been dead since a few weeks after they was implemented.  How about we test it with cooldown on tp and then allow players to tp to freeports again but keep the no ship teleports. 

Not sure what the devs have to lose at this point considering the game is doa before the a unless you like playing an ant colony simulator and belong to one of the big hives.

Or also to be able to teleport back to your base that was perty cool .one it saved me from sitting in front of my pc for a hour and a half to go home .

[Mrdoomed]

17 hours ago, Captain corn blower said:

Or also to be able to teleport back to your base that was perty cool .one it saved me from sitting in front of my pc for a hour and a half to go home .

Yeah the tp to capital was a tp I was always in favor of. Just made sense. ...which is why they removed it probably.