Qwolf Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 24 minutes ago, Souvlaki said: Because it's fun? I would rather a game allow me to have fun however I want rather than forcing me to do xyz to get ahead. The bottom line is people who want to PVP are going to do that because it's fun and the people who weren't going to PVP anyway because they are scared, still aren't going to PVP. So honestly there is no change in what people will do, only a slight tweak to the reward for doing it, which is just the icing on the cake, not the meat of why they're doing what they're doing. Having said that, I think they should do two things, up the admiralty store cost by a factor of 5 and up the PVP to PVE ratio to 5:1. That way if people start to feel the missions are boring, they can turn to PVP and be appropriately rewarded. Greater risk must equal greater profit. PvP is fun. But PvE is fun for the people that like PvE. Trading is fun for the people that like to trade, etc. The difference is PvE and trading are very profitable with low risk. PvP is very expensive with high risk. I have to run missions and trade just to support my PvP habit because I lose so much time and money on PvP. Consider this: Scenario 1: I spend all night risking my ship trying to earn 10 or 20 of these new combat marks fighting players. If I'm lucky and I don't lose my ship, maybe I'll earn a little gold (likely not enough to offset crew and damage); or Scenario 2: I spend all night running missions. I sail 5 minutes from some port 300km from trouble and earn 50 combat marks and a heap of gold running missions. Which do you chose? You might chose PvP for a while, if that's what you enjoy doing, until you run out of gold and ships. PvP marks were the fair reward that changed the above scenario to make some sense. I'm looking for balance. Not PvP dominance or PvE dominance. Using the Eve example, enormous profits could be made in nullsec for risky actions, or you could chip away in high sec and make a safe, but slow and steady profit. Why can't we have that? Its the reverse now. Risky is not profitable. Safe is profitable and has no risk. Greater risk must equal greater profit. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr RideZ Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Maybe Conquest Marks should be also just Combat Marks. Pension would be an extra source of Combat Marks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowilly Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 sorry Cuz...we need those conquest marks to protect our vast empire....defense in depth buddy.... JBSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowilly Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 and i placed an order for 25 Aggies to be delivered to Pittstown...the Ausez clan is working on it as we speak..... JBSC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Frost Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Loving the patch! really nice changes! All i wish for right now is signaling back and the game would be golden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowilly Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 ps dont tell Sir Texas Sir JBSC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragemix Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Step backwards is all I see. Where is the compensation for spending so many hours and the effort to unlock slots on ships you wont even buy with your enemies money? Yes Devs, its twice harder to earn PVP marks than PVE (hope you read between lines here). It was so hard to let them craft PVP marks from PVE marks and conquest marks with PVP marks? FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If there are so many lazy people who are whining so much because of the grinding .... you said it before the WIPE.... I am so desagree with the choices you are making. Hope the cheerings of those new players are enought for you guys, because you are losing lots of veteran players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooloo Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) PvP marks were great, now you get just as much reward for 2 quick pve missions as for a pvp kill, while it takes much less time, effort and risk to go pve. Ok you can capture ships with pvp but then you have to sail it allll the way back home and it takes a lot of time to go again after that. If someone wants to have every reward possible while playing only pve they can buy marks or play pve server ! It was great to have a very special reward if you dared to hunt alone / duo in dangerous waters, with a better reward if you tasted challenging fights. The change killed that. Too bad Edited June 21, 2017 by Zooloo 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfimp Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I get a whopping 0 PVP marks and 0 gold reward every time I capture a player trade ship. On a good night I'd capture 2 of these over the course of a 2-3 hour play session. Depending on the cargo and ship, I'd still net out a decent amount, but I'm certain the rewards for spending the same amount of time doing PVE would be higher. But if I wanted to grind PVE, I'd just play on the PVE server. That's not at all what I'm here for. The challenges around making unique PVP rewards without making an easy exploit are significant. Maybe the current solution isn't so bad, I don't know. Rest of the patch changes look fun to me! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiithnaras Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) I have to say, I cannot find one bad thing about this update. I'm back in the saddle, @admin, thanks a ton for your sensibility on this. I will say that I can understand peoples' concerns with combat marks. Items that previously took PvP marks, like bow figures and Connie permits, should understandably be more expensive, on the order of at least 5 Combat marks to former PvP marks (if they cost 10 PvP, they should now cost 50 Combat). This, I feel, would keep those high-end, valuable items rare, but not impossible for people who don't always have the time and opportunity to be successful at PvP. On the same order, being successful in PvP should earn about 3-5 times the number of combat marks compared to PvE rewards. I don't know the current ratio, but that's a good, balanced point, I feel. Regarding Demasting from before - Please reduce mast thickness. I would, personally, rather have a realistic mast thickness (good approximation is about 4/3rds hull thickness) with doubled or even tripled mast section HP, with each section going up having about 3/4ths the thickness and HP of the next lower section. This would make it feasible to do damage reliably to masts even at 250 meters, or with carronades (god-forbid), but keep the extended time to demast another ship. Of course, I'm assuming that the mast damage model with regards to thickness and penetration works similarly to the hull damage model. As it is, it's just absolutely impossible; I just worked up a mission and dedicated a good 10 minutes to attempting to demast a Cerberus. With 12pd mediums, those masts would just not budge, and I easily landed in the neighborhood of 50-100 good hits at 100-200m...and I was even focusing hard on just one mast. Edited June 21, 2017 by Kiithnaras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 with the increase (5 fold) for permits and such id be of the opinion pvp marks are probably supposed to be a 1:5 convert ratio and il wait till i see otherwise before converting what i have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JobaSet Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 And where is the option to convert my 200 plus PVP marks at? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Crowns Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Elbizor said: I thought you guys loved to pvp! you did it because it was fun! You did it before the wipe and will carry on to do so! Stop crying because you stopped getting an extra bonus. NO. now we have to go be involved in RVR. because there is now no other way for us to get conquest marks. was trading pvp marks for conquest marks now there is no reason to go out and pvp. Edited June 21, 2017 by King of Crowns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Crowns Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) @admin looks like you guys didn't hold your ground. oh well time to go back to protected waters and catch the ai as it comes it. GREAT META Edited June 21, 2017 by King of Crowns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiithnaras Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 minute ago, King of Crowns said: now there is no reason to go out and pvp Other than, for, I dunno...the fun of it? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Crowns Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 23 hours ago, Kiithnaras said: Other than, for, I dunno...the fun of it? YEA been there done that for year and 1/2. takes way to much effort to go pvp now. 2hour sails and use of your teleport. so if this is going to be the build lets go ahead and open up the teleport to free towns cuz pvp is purely recreational now. you manke 0 progression from seeking pvp. Edited June 22, 2017 by King of Crowns 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiithnaras Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, King of Crowns said: open up the teleport How bout no? This is one of the changes that I am quite fond of, and I'd rather keep it that way. People want to stage out of free towns, that's cool, but no porting between them - makes conquest a lot less meaningful. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Crowns Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Rickard said: take it easy there mister. if you just do PVP for the marks your not a PVPer but just a PVEer being forced to PVP the pvp marks were are good reason to sail 2 1/2 hours to hopefully find some one to kill. tell me why would I sail 2 1/2 hours when I can do 1 mission every 20mins and get 5x as many combat marks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodo Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, Sansón Carrasco said: I get a whopping 0 PVP marks and 0 gold reward every time I capture a player trade ship. On a good night I'd capture 2 of these over the course of a 2-3 hour play session. Depending on the cargo and ship, I'd still net out a decent amount, but I'm certain the rewards for spending the same amount of time doing PVE would be higher. But if I wanted to grind PVE, I'd just play on the PVE server. That's not at all what I'm here for. The challenges around making unique PVP rewards without making an easy exploit are significant. Maybe the current solution isn't so bad, I don't know. Rest of the patch changes look fun to me! Exactly, I go out and hunt to capture trade ships not sink them. IF they have nothing then I will sink them or if it is something light I can fit on my ship without hurting performance I will take it and sink the ship. Which means 90% of the time I get NO marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Crowns Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, Kiithnaras said: How bout no? This is one of the changes that I am quite fond of, and I'd rather keep it that way. People want to stage out of free towns, that's cool, but no porting between them - makes conquest a lot less meaningful. to afraid your gonna die? pvp is purely recreational now. so open up the teleports and bring back the PVP event. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodo Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, King of Crowns said: to afraid your gonna die? pvp is purely recreational now. so open up the teleports and bring back the PVP event. God no to the PVP event, that crap was stupid as hell. Just bring a decent reason to PVP other than because we want to... which honestly should be all the reason some of you "Hardcore" PVPers should need. Damn sometimes I wonder if you would survive in a real hardcore game like Mortal Online or Darkfall. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfimp Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, King of Crowns said: to afraid your gonna die? pvp is purely recreational now. so open up the teleports and bring back the PVP event. Teleports = no traders in the OW. No risk to trade and hence no way to have any meaningful way of threatening an enemy nation's economy. And hence no reason to defend trade ships (as they aren't in the OW, they are teleporting). And hence no reason to sheepdog. And then we wind up with much less PVP overall. Teleports are the problem and they have to be removed. Setup a base somewhere near a national border and you should be able to find plenty of PVP. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Crowns Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Sansón Carrasco said: Teleports = no traders in the OW. No risk to trade and hence no way to have any meaningful way of threatening an enemy nation's economy. And hence no reason to defend trade ships (as they aren't in the OW, they are teleporting). And hence no reason to sheepdog. And then we wind up with much less PVP overall. Teleports are the problem and they have to be removed. Setup a base somewhere near a national border and you should be able to find plenty of PVP. PVP is now dead bud. only those who enjoy destroying their own econ will go look for pvp. because all your production must be put on hold to sail 2 1/2 hours away to find them. all the traders are safe again. and my base is as on the border as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSwift Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Receiving combat marks from missions should be removed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, King of Crowns said: PVP is now dead bud. only those who enjoy destroying their own econ will go look for pvp. because all your production must be put on hold to sail 2 1/2 hours away to find them. all the traders are safe again. and my base is as on the border as you can get. People PvP'd before wipe not for the rewards but because it's fun If you're looking at PvP as a grind, something is wrong imo 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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