Patch 10.2 - Changes to mission, crafting, ROE and other fixes

[King of Crowns]

1 hour ago, SeaHyena said:

Because of the 2 different instances open world and battle revenge fleets exist. Now it is a problem because of player behavior taking advantage of the game design but that does not mean it should be ignored.

Advantages of being a revenge fleet

1. 100% invisibility at enemy battle location, you cannot be seen  
2. You can completely surround enemy from all wind angles, they can't escape
3. You can keep 2-3 ships outside every time you tag to make sure that if enemy escapes instance, you can tag again. Repeat as many times as needed until you catch up or enemy runs out of real life hours and surrenders
4. When the enemy fleet is in battle, you have all the time in the world to teleport from another region and sail from port straight to the enemy's location

So revenge fleets have all this handed to them, absolutely no need to worry about enemy escaping. 

And then the "wolves" we will call them I guess? I would just like to call them "PvP players" have to sail to enemy waters take a large risk of being ganked, find a suitable target then catch them hoping they are not too close to forts. 

Both sides have wolves, so I guess if for instance

 Nation A has 5 players go to Nation B's waters to hunt for PvP

 Nation B has 5 players go to nation A's waters to hunt for PvP but they also send a revenge fleet from their capital against nation A. Nation A does  not have enough players to send a revenge fleet to their own waters.

Right now revenge fleets have it way to easy, they have to give minimal effort for huge rewards while the "wolves" have to give a much larger effort to get any reward at all.

by the way there are these great things called alts....... everyone in game has them. devs allow them. use them to scout out ur battle before you drop out.  and all of the things u mentioned here are now null and void. just take your time in battle make it last 1 1/2 hour and they will split up. but hey we don't know bout revenge fleets.

Edited June 13, 2017 by King of Crowns

[TommyShelby]

1 minute ago, King of Crowns said:

by the way there are these great things called alts....... everyone in game has them. devs allow them. use them to scout out ur battle before you drop out.  and all of the things u mentioned here are now null and void. just take your time in battle make it last 1 1/2 hour and they will split up.

Sounds like some great gameplay right there! 

Your solution: 
1 - Buy another copy of the game and dual box to scout with an alt.
2 - "Play" with your "food" for 90 minutes even though the battle could have been over in say, 20 minutes. 

Do you have anymore constructive input because your last 2 comments really reached new heights...

[King of Crowns]

7 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Sounds like some great gameplay right there! 

Your solution: 
1 - Buy another copy of the game and dual box to scout with an alt.
2 - "Play" with your "food" for 90 minutes even though the battle could have been over in say, 20 minutes. 

Do you have anymore constructive input because your last 2 comments really reached new heights...

things u gotta do if your gonna be a pvper my friend. btw I bet if you hunted off gustavia you wouldn't have a revenge fleet once u finished the battle. after a fail revenge fleet attempt about 75x people wont even bother coming after you.

Edited June 13, 2017 by King of Crowns

[Neptune]

Well that's not toxic behaviour at all... lol

Use an alt account to scout & keep your enemy in the battle for an hour just to troll them. Great fixes mate, 10/10. You would make a great developer.

[King of Crowns]

Just now, Neptune said:

Well that's not toxic behaviour at all... lol

Use an alt account to scout & keep your enemy in the battle for an hour just to troll them. Great fixes mate, 10/10. You would make a great developer.

I'm not a developer. I'm a player. BTW naval action arena is in development you guys may want to hold out for that game. it will always be a fair fight and will have no revenge fleets.  Ocean wants to bring back the days that you just sit out in front of the capital and wait for them to come out and attack you. This was very possible and was done several times when battles closed instantly. people want to be able to help their friends that are in trouble just as much as you want to sink people. being able to help your friend who is in battle because he was doing something stupid is a large part of the content we have in the game. just leave the timers alone and let the players adjust their playstyle accordingly.

[Neptune]

2 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

I'm not a developer. I'm a player. BTW naval action arena is in development you guys may want to hold out for that game. it will always be a fair fight and will have no revenge fleets.  Ocean wants to bring back the days that you just sit out in front of the capital and wait for them to come out and attack you. This was very possible and was done several times when battles closed instantly. people want to be able to help their friends that are in trouble just as much as you want to sink people. being able to help your friend who is in battle because he was doing something stupid is a large part of the content we have in the game. just leave the timers alone and let the players adjust their playstyle accordingly.

You seem a bit salty over something. This isn't just the ocean clan that wants the stupid revenge fleets fixed. You clearly having something bigger on your mind than contributing to this discussion, and it's showing mate. This is about fixing a problem that will hurt the games health.

[King of Crowns]

Just now, Neptune said:

You seem a bit salty over something. This isn't just the ocean clan that wants the stupid revenge fleets fixed. You clearly having something bigger on your mind than contributing to this discussion, and it's showing mate. This is about fixing a problem that will hurt the games health.

its not the PVP players that will leave the game because its to hard. its the causal that gets ganked and cant get help due to game mechanics that will leave the game.

[Neptune]

3 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

its not the PVP players that will leave the game because its to hard. its the causal that gets ganked and cant get help due to game mechanics that will leave the game.

When players realize they can keep getting tagged again and again to a fleet they had no way of escaping, they will quit. The players who have 10+ hours a day to play won't mind it, but I'm sure that isn't many.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Neptune
Spell error

[Cmdr RideZ]

Mast thickness could be actually pretty good.

Now you cannot just focus all your energy to cut masts, you actually have to learn the rest as well.

Creates purpose for chain shots, as smaller ships cannot any more just remove masts from every ship.  They have to chain bigger ones, and combat gets way more skill based for these ships.  Mast sniping was just simply way too easy mode.

Bigger ships have easier time taking down masts, which is good.  If smaller ships are trying to rake, they should be able to do it.

Also really nice to see that now that top mast actually could be worth a shot.  This needs still way more testing.

Double Charged shots still provide means for better dismasting, and is a very important perk once again.  With DC, you actually can still snipe masts fast.  Not sure if too fast, will be left for testing.  Based on thickness values, I would say that pretty equal to what it was before wipe.  Not sure if this is too easy, will be seen.

Basically this means, simplified here tho...  Do you have DC/DB, and which ships you are facing, then you define your tactic, how to fight this specific battle.  You cannot just shoot masts in every possible battle.  Mast snipers were taking this game to direction that you do not have to understand nor learn anything about this game, just shoot masts.  Guys who say demasting is not an option any more, you are wrong.  It can be an option, but not in every situation.

Very nice.  GJ devs.

...edit...

You still have to fix that revenge gank issue.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[King of Crowns]

2 minutes ago, Neptune said:

It's the players who keep getting tagged again and again to a fleet they had no way of escaping that will quit. The players who have 10+ hours a day to play won't mind it, but I'm sure that isn't many.

if that's not how you want to play the game there are other ways to play the game and there are ways to solve the issue if it is the way you want to play the game. if you don't want to be chased by a revenge fleet stay with the large fleets within your nation. It is a sandbox and if you don't like the way one area of the sandbox looks then go to a different area.

[King of Crowns]

1 minute ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Mast thickness could be actually pretty good.

 

maybe this wouldn't have been that big of an issue if  everyone wasn't given a surprise. the only way to insure a kill on a surprise is to demast it. though I must admit that they probably did need a buff.

[Neptune]

2 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

if that's not how you want to play the game there are other ways to play the game and there are ways to solve the issue if it is the way you want to play the game. if you don't want to be chased by a revenge fleet stay with the large fleets within your nation. It is a sandbox and if you don't like the way one area of the sandbox looks then go to a different area.

Whatever man. Just because it's a sandbox doesn't mean that the revenge fleet b.s should be ignored. It doesn't make it any more acceptable. But judging by steam reviews it looks like we are in for a rocky road down the stretch.

Though I wish I had 10 hours of free time a day to spend on games but whatevs.

[Pada]

So we sailed now for 2 hours trying to avoid the capitals and find a fight. We ain't found shit. If you are lucky and see someone he is close to port or some forts.

If you want to have OW/PvP fun in this game you are forced to go to capital. And if you try this you are pretty much dead. This is the big problem there is just no motivation to leave the capital area. Why are we getting punished for playing the game?

[Sureshot]

1 minute ago, Pada said:

So we sailed now for 2 hours trying to avoid the capitals and find a fight. We ain't found shit. If you are lucky and see someone he is close to port or some forts.

If you want to have OW/PvP fun in this game you are forced to go to capital. And if you try this you are pretty much dead. This is the big problem there is just no motivation to leave the capital area. Why are we getting punished for playing the game?

 

[Snoopy]

Please don't use "arena is in development" when people are talking about problems (imagined or perhaps even real ones) in this game.

It makes it evident you ran out of arguments.

[Koltes]

31 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Look, i know its hard for you guys to understand the whole "Revenge fleet" stuff since this the first time in a long long time there has been potential for it to be an issue.
Look I know its hard for you to comprehend that someone can be right and that you can't be right 100% of the time.
Let me spell this out for you once again Mr Know It All Be It My Way Only. I hunt solo 99% of the time. I get ganked hunting solo about 50% of the time. I lost 2 ships since patch (1 due to disconnect and 1 due to my own stupidity). Got the picture? I know all about being ganked. For MY OWN good I would benefit from insta close battles because then no one can come and save whoever I attacked. But then people get pissed off with the game. They start leaving and I have less targets to hunt. So yeah I want them to gank me. Do you understand? I WANT to be ganked!


But some of us were around the last time it was an actual issue. Where your only option was to log off, or face a revenge fleet. Where we tested in combination with both 1 minute invisibility and 2 minute invisibility. 
When was that Tommy? 1,5 year ago? How long have you missed? Have you actually came back to the game after the patch? I know that you've been away for over 6 months or so. Are you still getting ganked by revenge fleet today that you can't deal with? Ganked wth invisibility? Ganked with no GPS? Ganked with no coordinates to share? Ganked with no teleport to Free Towns? Care to show screens or videos? Or are you speaking of the past and past only? Or are you just trolling the game. No offense man. This is what it looks like to me.


We had less players back then than you have on the Global server now, yet it became a huge issue.. As soon as people start figuring out how to place themselves on the OW to be 100% sure of catching whoever exits that battle it is going to be absolute hell. The only way to escape those "revenge fleets" will be if the "revenge fleets" make some huge mistakes.
You are contradicting yourself. First you told me that we don't know shite because PVP2 or Global doesn't have enough player base to "comprehend" your logic. Now you saying that we actually have enough player on Global to have this issue.... yet where is that issue? With battle timers entry increased I have been ganked less. Full stop.


As for the timer, 3 minutes. I will push for 2 minutes no matter what. 
2 minutes is where you hit the "what you see is what you get RoE" that is good. 
Once more, i know its hard for some of you to understand since maybe you weren't here when longer timers were tested (Before EA). But as soon as people start to understand how to take advantage of it, it will once again become a big issue. And there is no doubt here, back then even with 100-150 people online it was an issue so how you can possibly argue that it wont be an issue is something i simply cannot comprehend.. 
That's because you are locked in the square thinking for the last 2 years of this game development. 2 years ago it was a completely different game.
Today we have 350 players on Global on the average which is 250 people more than before when you have issues. Yet we don't seem to have these problems. Maybe this has something to do with other supportive mechanics that indirectly improved the game and reduced possibility for gank fests while still leaving it... well a possibility.


I'll also argue that 2 minute timer + modified version of signalling perk (allowing defenders to get up to 1,25 or so in BR) is the best compromise we will ever get.
Signalling perk needs to go. It was supportive mechanic that was implemented to balance past issues that today only exist in your head. Also Signaling takes valuable perks and most people don't take them. Newbs don't take them because they can't spare a perk point that they could otherwise use for trading / crafting or leveling. You Signaling perk is an old news, but you cant comprehend that because you are living in the past.

Koltes, the whole: "These guys just want the game to fit their playstyle" is the worst argument you can possibly come up with. I can say the exact same about you so lets not do that yeah?
It is valuable comment and this is why. 2-3 months ago I invited you to a private conversation and offered you to discuss ROE and timers matter as representatives of two camps. I thought that if we could work on this together and come to one conclusion we could unite those camps and live happy ever after. I was ready to adjust and compromise and take your side of view into account. We wrote answer after answer to each other and I literally offered tons of solutions that could have united both camps. To which your answer was always solid:
- No, my way is the only way! - to all of them. Then I came to the point of realization that I was there to make game working for everyone and you are here to make the game working for yourself. As I said that personally I would benefit more from 2 mins and even insta close battles. However, I see this gradually killing game for those who I hunt. You don't see it this way. We already have proof that this have not worked and this is why devs changed it. But you still want to see it your way, because its the only way

 

Edit: 
Oh, i'd also like to add the following about current RoE. 
On the very first day of the patch i was "griefed" by a basic cutter for almost 3 hours straight. He couldn't catch my trader brig in battle but he could catch in OW, guess what? 
Every time i exited battle he would retag me
Now you might say; "Oh this is only issue because OW Speed is weird". But no... Several people have even wrote comments about it in other topics about how they have been griefed for many hours because of this mechanic. Hell, it was a big issue last time we tested this shit as well. 
Why did you bring this here? Basic Cutter was a free ship allowed to PVP issue which is now fixed. Another pointless argument without grounds like your past experiences
 

 

29 minutes ago, SeaHyena said:

Yeah, I guess you could say us vets aren't the biggest fans of surrounding enemy on open world while they can't see you. Then tagging over and over so your line ships end up being faster than a speed renomee.

But I guess you wouldn't understand that since you play on global, am I right? with 6 ppl. 

You need to stop bringing this BS about being a vet into the argument if you played back during Sea trials. This was a different game we play now. Completely different. Today you (the person who gets ganked) is invisible, not the fleet outside.

You are right. I play on Global
You are wrong. We have 350 people on the average with some spikes of 400+
But then again you were just trolling right?

 

18 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Perhaps, just perhaps, there is "Home defense fleets" that are no where near their home waters? 
Or maybe that is not an option. 
Could you please tell that to the "Home Defense Fleets" i encountered after winning PvP battles at Les Cayes, La Mona, Cayo Romano and San Agustin?

Can't tell you without the whole story. Most of these so called battles are near Free Towns were enemy fleet could teleport to in the past. Are you talking about the past again?
If this is recent, then get this registered already. If they are an enemy in your waters your nation have much bigger options to gank them in return. All it takes is a bit of organization. It works both ways.
What do you expect? A single player game?

 

7 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Sounds like some great gameplay right there! 

Your solution: 
1 - Buy another copy of the game and dual box to scout with an alt.
2 - "Play" with your "food" for 90 minutes even though the battle could have been over in say, 20 minutes. 

Do you have anymore constructive input because your last 2 comments really reached new heights...

No our solution is get organized.

 

5 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

things u gotta do if your gonna be a pvper my friend. btw I bet if you hunted off gustavia you wouldn't have a revenge fleet once u finished the battle. after an fail revenge fleet attempt about 75x people wont even bother coming after you.

I went to Cartagena solo hunting and killed a trader. Then was hunted in return. Totally fair gameplay to me. I know for a fact that your lot are hunters as a small fleet. I'm also a hunter but solo. Both of our game play style screaming to be ganked. Especially outside nations capitals where we spend lots of time. Yet... where are those gank fest issues they are crying about? I don't think we can get through to their heads mate. Been playing every freaking day after the patch. Just like in the last 1,5 year.

 

[Neptune]

Koltes can I have whatever you are smoking? I need me some of that man, hook me up.

[Cmdr RideZ]

I cannot believe that I am going to write this but...

We do not have safe zones.  We do have Surps hunting noob Brigs for PvP marks.  We do have revenge ganks to make areas secured.

Heavy stuff.  I still would like to give a change for wolves to runaway.

[jodgi]

35 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

it will always be a fair fight

You brought that up, we never even mentioned fair fights.

 

32 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

its not the PVP players that will leave the game because its to hard. its the causal that gets ganked

So, on one hand you bring up alts as a way to play the game and now your heart is filled with love for the casuals... Take your time, think through what your opinion is about timers, ganks, revenge-ganks, casuals and pvp-gamers. State that opinion instead of running around here and there shooting from the hip.

I've seen you stating you're very good at pvp, with such skill comes great responsibility. You shouldn't look down on us that find pvp hard, but rather help us with one line of reasoning, not several (or imagined).

[Sureshot]

Quote

This was a different game we play now. Completely different. Today you (the person who gets ganked) is invisible, not the fleet outside.

Ahem, I thought I'd clear this up.

What I was saying is the players Inside of the battle cannot see the revenge fleet coming, they have no idea it's outside on top of their location. That's a pretty cool mechanic right? 

 And the rest well I can't really be bothered to reply to. 

[King of Crowns]

32 minutes ago, Pada said:

So we sailed now for 2 hours trying to avoid the capitals and find a fight. We ain't found shit. If you are lucky and see someone he is close to port or some forts.

If you want to have OW/PvP fun in this game you are forced to go to capital. And if you try this you are pretty much dead. This is the big problem there is just no motivation to leave the capital area. Why are we getting punished for playing the game?

follow the hostility around man. if you find the hostility grinders you will find pvp. and if EU server is like GLOBAL then leave kpr and go to cartagina to find brits. only the newbs are going to stay around the capitals. experienced players don't want to be around capital for the same reason you don't want to be around yours (nothing to do that's fun). just leave that EU server and come on over to global things are better over here anyway

[King of Crowns]

4 minutes ago, jodgi said:

You brought that up, we never even mentioned fair fights.

 

So, on one hand you bring up alts as a way to play the game and now your heart is filled with love for the casuals... Take your time, think through what your opinion is about timers, ganks, revenge-ganks, casuals and pvp-gamers. State that opinion instead of running around here and there shooting from the hip.

I've seen you stating you're very good at pvp, with such skill comes great responsibility. You shouldn't look down on us that find pvp hard, but rather help us with one line of reasoning, not several (or imagined).

I'm not saying you have to have an alt to play the game. I'm saying that this is one way that there is to counter revenge fleets. the real way to counter revenge fleets is be in ships that cant be caught. ie surprise/ renomee it doesn't matter if they tag you 15x they cant catch you. once they realize that they cant they will stop tagging you. the problem is that if your running a surprise fleet or a renomee fleet your targets are limited. people want the best of both worlds. they want to be out there in bellonas or heavy frigates and not have to worry about being counter-ganked. and that's just not an option.

[Pada]

3 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

follow the hostility around man. if you find the hostility grinders you will find pvp. and if EU server is like GLOBAL then leave kpr and go to cartagina to find brits. only the newbs are going to stay around the capitals. experienced players don't want to be around capital for the same reason you don't want to be around yours (nothing to do that's fun). just leave that EU server and come on over to global things are better over here anyway

We are 2 hours away from homewaters and here is no hostility only PVE carebares. 

[Koltes]

48 minutes ago, Neptune said:

When players realize they can keep getting tagged again and again to a fleet they had no way of escaping, they will quit. The players who have 10+ hours a day to play won't mind it, but I'm sure that isn't many.

They can't get tagged again and again. If they are they need to learn game mechanics better. With the current game mechanics the outcome is the following:

If you are slower AND weaker than your enemy you will die. This is how it supposed to be.
If you are weaker but faster you will be able to run. This is how its supposed to be.
If you are faster AND stronger they will die. This is how its supposed to be.

What is there that you disagree with?

 

16 minutes ago, Neptune said:

Koltes can I have whatever you are smoking? I need me some of that man, hook me up.

You need to learn to handle the green tea first before asking for real shit

 

2 minutes ago, SeaHyena said:

Ahem, I thought I'd clear this up.

What I was saying is the players Inside of the battle cannot see the revenge fleet coming, they have no idea it's outside on top of their location. That's a pretty cool mechanic right? 

 And the rest well I can't really be bothered to reply to. 

There is no way to tell players in the battle instance if someone is waiting for them outside. This is the specific of this game. In EVE you are fighting the the OW. In NA you can't due to server limitations. The answer to this is invisibility after the battle. When you out you can use your invisibility to escape. If you are slower, then you will die of course. See above - and this is how its supposed to be, no?


 

[King of Crowns]

2 minutes ago, Pada said:

We are 2 hours away from homewaters and here is no hostility only PVE carebares. 

we have been sailing from Haiti to South America and we find the fights we need down there. stay down there a day or two until we run out of repairs then come home. the hostility grinding fleets are extremely exposed with current build. they have to split iinto groups of 4/5 in order to get the hostility up like they need to. that's prefect for gankers. surely somewhere on pvp EU there is some clan out there grinding hostility.