Night flips...ad nauseam

[The Redneck]

I think it is a bit sad that we’ve managed to get to this point.

I have played NA for over a year now: found great people, made some friends. Got sunk, took prizes. We have discussed this issue at length, to no avail. I guess we all agree that NA has a lot of potential, but please let’s not forget that it is still a demo and not the final product. I have started to see a few negative reviews, mostly related to the nigh flips issue. To be honest, I cannot really understand what’s so cool about taking ports with no defence. It just seems to me a cowardly way of playing this game. As a Spaniard, I have fought against the US in numerous occasions, sometimes I have been in the winning side, sometimes not. But at least I have faced fully defended ports and screen fleets, not empty spaces.

I felt that NA was designed to be a real OW, 24/7, where every player had the chance to enjoy it. Not any longer. I think the time to tackle this issue is now, otherwise we seriously face the risk of having a one-side game. We have started to see the haemorrhage of players from the eastern alliance, and the players left refusing to engage with the US players any longer.

Let’s be mature, for the sake of the game and the community. I know that, as in real life, there are some toxic characters. Let’s ignore them and try to build a game that is enjoyable for all of us.

Or either we agree to a solution now, or the NA is in serious jeopardy.

My proposal is to revert to some kind of mix solution: the lord protector combined with flags and the current ‘heating’ system: a PB will be open once the area has reached 100% level, and its main port is open for PB within a time window of X hours around the time set up by the Lord Protector. The PB itself should open 24 hours after the zone has reached 100% heating (and not the current 48 hours, which impedes weekend attacks).

Other solutions proposed are not great, including splitting the servers. But that’s is where we are heading now.

Happy to discuss this, but only in a constructive manner. Trolls (you know who you are) please abstain of commenting here.

good wind!

[Iroquois Confederacy]

Right now, I think the best solution is to have each faction have "black-out times" where they cannot be attacked by port battles.  Those times would be determined by:

1.  Determine average peak time per faction per week.

2.  Take peak time, and swap the AM and PM.

3.  Make this (opposite of peak time) the center of the "black-out time."

4.  Adjust the "black-out time" to 4, 6, 8, 10 hours, as needed.

This effectively:

1.  Takes the control out of individuals hands.

2.  Removes the issue of "off-peak" flips on a more discrete level (as opposed to server-wide)

3.  Allows for a unified, global server.

[Corona Lisa]

Lord protector sucks because your enemy will set it to the worst possible time for you.

5 minutes ago, WinterPatriot said:

Right now, I think the best solution is to have each faction have "black-out times" where they cannot be attacked by port battles.  Those times would be determined by:

1.  Determine average peak time per faction per week.

2.  Take peak time, and swap the AM and PM.

3.  Make this (opposite of peak time) the center of the "black-out time."

4.  Adjust the "black-out time" to 4, 6, 8, 10 hours, as needed.

This effectively:

1.  Takes the control out of individuals hands.

2.  Removes the issue of "off-peak" flips on a more discrete level (as opposed to server-wide)

3.  Allows for a unified, global server.

Peak time is the evening that means your "black-out-time" would be in the morning instead of covering the night.

Would be much easier to look at the time when the least amount of players are online and black that timeframe out (for each nation individually ofc).

But then you would block people in off times. With 2 split servers they can choose which fits better to their time schedule and play there without being blocked out from RvR.

[Salty Dog.]

Here is my proposal.

Let me ask you this: Does the loss of Gasparilla's region really matter?  was it a region that had a important regional bonus or a resource that was critical to the Spanish?  For several weeks the US and spain has been trading Islamorada like a hot potato.  1/2 a week US owns it, 1/2 week Spain does.....and it doesn't matter who has it because.

1.   it has no regional bonus 
2.   I has no scarce resource that you couldn't get with a smuggler trader. 
3.   It has been a fun region to attack because usually the spanish show up.  We don't like taking empty port battles any more than the spanish do.

That is why I think a Nation should be able to protect 3-4 critical regions to the nations ability to keep playing the regions that are not critical should be single port....port battles.

[Christendom]

I think we're all a bit tired of talking about the issue now, myself included.  I'm about ready to let the devs just solve the issue for everyone regardless of what they do, port timers or setting servers to time zones.  I won't particularly like the latter solution, but it'll be an end to the constant whining.  

But since you did write a nice post about it, I'll respond.  

We're not really interested in taking empty ports and not having actual fights, whatever our opposition might say.  Just last night we were discussing the merits of "this isn't very fun" after the battle.  So far only a small number of our night flips have actually not been defended.  Even when they say they won't show, they do.  In all honestly we're just looking for battles that we can fill up with the majority of our base, which do happen to fall in the evenings.  Some would suggest that we un-ally with the brits and fight them, since it seems that they have more US players than the rest of the Eastern Alliance and there is merit to that idea.....I'm not sure they can throw together more than 10 people at night from what I've seen.  Due to close ties with them, it just isn't gonna happen.  

Currently there are 2 battles today, one in the morning of a US work day and one in the very early afternoon.  These we consider to be just as bad as night flips and have been on going for as along as we've been night flipping.  We have 2 more tomorrow.  We had one at 8:30 AM in the morning on a sunday yesterday that was even too early for most of the EU players in our alliance.  It was absurd.

So now we're in a situation where both sides do it to each other.  You guys think you're in the right, so do we.  Is this situation fixable?  Probably not.  I have suggested to the Eastern Alliance leaders that we do something similar to your time black outs, you don't attack us before a certain time, we won't attack later than a certain time.  This was rejected.  They suggested that the US switch alliances, this was also rejected.  I'm not sure what the middle ground is here.  Both sides feel wrong and are not willing to negotiate.  

I'll throw a blanket statement out there again.  If you want the night flips to stop, the US needs to stop being attacked in the late morning/early afternoon.  Those times are impossible for US based players to defend and difficult for our EU guys to make.  If you want the night flips to continue, keep attacking the US before 18:00 server and we'll keep attacking after 00:00 server.  If the other side can agree to this, I think we can too.  If you don't want to talk to me about it, go talk to Chijohnaok.  

Or the other option is to let the devs alter the game, which it seems like every one wants regardless, we'll just have to wait it out and grief each other in the meantime.  I'm ok with either option.  

[Iroquois Confederacy]

56 minutes ago, JonSnowLetsGo said:

Lord protector sucks because your enemy will set it to the worst possible time for you.

Peak time is the evening that means your "black-out-time" would be in the morning instead of covering the night.

Would be much easier to look at the time when the least amount of players are online and black that timeframe out (for each nation individually ofc).

But then you would block people in off times. With 2 split servers they can choose which fits better to their time schedule and play there without being blocked out from RvR.

Two split servers is a non-starter.  The entire purpose of this thread is to avoid that.  Obviously, there is nothing to be said on that topic further, as those cheering for it are not going to be convinced otherwise.

I have no idea what you mean by blocking people "in their off times."  All it means is that, a faction wouldn't be able to be attacked from time X to time Y.  Nothing about them not attacking other people.

Least amount of players online will always be around server maintenance time.  That's why I argue for opposite of peak time.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rediii said:

(For me) this sounds like something we could work with even with 0 server is pretty late already.

I don't want a "social" solution - it'll just hold up untill they are pressed again.. And who can predict server development post release? Again we are not players (solely) but also testers.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WinterPatriot said:

Two split servers is a non-starter.  The entire purpose of this thread is to avoid that.  Obviously, there is nothing to be said on that topic further, as those cheering for it are not going to be convinced otherwise.

I have no idea what you mean by blocking people "in their off times."  All it means is that, a faction wouldn't be able to be attacked from time X to time Y.  Nothing about them not attacking other people.

Least amount of players online will always be around server maintenance time.  That's why I argue for opposite of peak time.

But the solution has be implemented on both servers - it's one game after all..

[Guest]

Just now, JG14_Cuzn said:

Make port battles a 3 part battle:  take place 3 times....   every 8 hours.

Some maniacs will make all 3...others 1 or 2.   

Have the results tabulated in a way that attendance...damage...circle capture are all tabulated.  

then add them up after a day.  

 

 

 

Wouldn't solve nightflipping. One side would per definition always have 1 win (empty nightflip) and it wouldn't allow small nations any room for playing the game - i.e. locking the current alliance mechanic as it is - I'd rather see a bit more dynamic alliance system.

[Jorge]

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

I think we're all a bit tired of talking about the issue now, myself included.  I'm about ready to let the devs just solve the issue for everyone regardless of what they do, port timers or setting servers to time zones.  I won't particularly like the latter solution, but it'll be an end to the constant whining.  

But since you did write a nice post about it, I'll respond.  

We're not really interested in taking empty ports and not having actual fights, whatever our opposition might say.  Just last night we were discussing the merits of "this isn't very fun" after the battle.  So far only a small number of our night flips have actually not been defended.  Even when they say they won't show, they do.  In all honestly we're just looking for battles that we can fill up with the majority of our base, which do happen to fall in the evenings.  Some would suggest that we un-ally with the brits and fight them, since it seems that they have more US players than the rest of the Eastern Alliance and there is merit to that idea.....I'm not sure they can throw together more than 10 people at night from what I've seen.  Due to close ties with them, it just isn't gonna happen.  

Currently there are 2 battles today, one in the morning of a US work day and one in the very early afternoon.  These we consider to be just as bad as night flips and have been on going for as along as we've been night flipping.  We have 2 more tomorrow.  We had one at 8:30 AM in the morning on a sunday yesterday that was even too early for most of the EU players in our alliance.  It was absurd.

So now we're in a situation where both sides do it to each other.  You guys think you're in the right, so do we.  Is this situation fixable?  Probably not.  I have suggested to the Eastern Alliance leaders that we do something similar to your time black outs, you don't attack us before a certain time, we won't attack later than a certain time.  This was rejected.  They suggested that the US switch alliances, this was also rejected.  I'm not sure what the middle ground is here.  Both sides feel wrong and are not willing to negotiate.  

I'll throw a blanket statement out there again.  If you want the night flips to stop, the US needs to stop being attacked in the late morning/early afternoon.  Those times are impossible for US based players to defend and difficult for our EU guys to make.  If you want the night flips to continue, keep attacking the US before 18:00 server and we'll keep attacking after 00:00 server.  If the other side can agree to this, I think we can too.  If you don't want to talk to me about it, go talk to Chijohnaok.  

Or the other option is to let the devs alter the game, which it seems like every one wants regardless, we'll just have to wait it out and grief each other in the meantime.  I'm ok with either option.  

25 USA players in every battle....If not 25 USA, your allies can defend in our prime time. We and our allies cant...You said that you going to attack all spanish ports until devs change port Battle mechanics...Will be empty fights

[Celtiberofrog]

"...If you want the night flips to continue, keep attacking the US before 18:00 server and we'll keep attacking after 00:00 server.  If the other side can agree to this, I think we can too.  If you don't want to talk to me about it, go talk to Chijohnaok..."

This is a great step toward gentlemenship !! why not having offered this option long time ago ?

Do we have a new PRIME TIME FOR PVP1 ?

I know it's an effort for your community and i'm very gratefull. I think most of current player base might accept this good compromise.

Shall we start advertise about it on the forum and among all factions & clans ?

 

There could be 2 other solutions one easy and one harder to get:

n°1 - (easy) You convince a group of 10/20 USA players to join Spain (see my today's post on Good fight, video etc...)

n°2 - (harder) Devs find a way to adapt PB entrance proportional to Server real time number of players, for example, server number is 180 players then PB can allow a maximum of 8V8 players (numbers must be smartly chosen), server number reach its maximum (dunno today could be 350 players) then PB can allow full 25V25. In that way nightflips would become balanced very likely.  

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Celtiberofrog

[Christendom]

Just now, Celtiberofrog said:

"...If you want the night flips to continue, keep attacking the US before 18:00 server and we'll keep attacking after 00:00 server.  If the other side can agree to this, I think we can too.  If you don't want to talk to me about it, go talk to Chijohnaok..."

This is a great step toward gentlemenship !! why not having offered this option long time ago ?

Do we have a new PRIME TIME FOR PVP1 ?

I know it's an effort for your community and i'm very gratefull. I think most of current player base might accept this good compromise.

Shall we start advertise about it on the forum and among all factions & clans ?

 

There could be 2 other solutions one easy and one harder to get:

n°1 - (easy) You convince a group of 10/20 USA players to join Spain (see my today's post on Good fight, video etc...)

n°2 - (harder) Devs find a way to adapt PB entrance proportional to Server real time number of players, for example, server number is 180 players then PB can allow a maximum of 8V8 players (numbers must smartly chosen), server number reach its maximum (dunno today could be 350 players) then PB can allow full 25V25. In that way nightflips would become balanced very likely.  

 

The offer was made a while ago, the answer was rejected.  "No agreements without alliance swaps".

[Nielsnnk]

12 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

"...If you want the night flips to continue, keep attacking the US before 18:00 server and we'll keep attacking after 00:00 server.  If the other side can agree to this, I think we can too.  If you don't want to talk to me about it, go talk to Chijohnaok..."

This is a great step toward gentlemenship !! why not having offered this option long time ago ?

Do we have a new PRIME TIME FOR PVP1 ?

I know it's an effort for your community and i'm very gratefull. I think most of current player base might accept this good compromise.

Shall we start advertise about it on the forum and among all factions & clans ?

 

There could be 2 other solutions one easy and one harder to get:

n°1 - (easy) You convince a group of 10/20 USA players to join Spain (see my today's post on Good fight, video etc...)

n°2 - (harder) Devs find a way to adapt PB entrance proportional to Server real time number of players, for example, server number is 180 players then PB can allow a maximum of 8V8 players (numbers must be smartly chosen), server number reach its maximum (dunno today could be 350 players) then PB can allow full 25V25. In that way nightflips would become balanced very likely.  

 

Before 18:00 is not only bad for the United States but for EU players to (when they have a job)

We dont cry like the eastern alliance that the battles are at a bad time.

some US players cant make it to early portbattles but we still assamble what we got and go fight and sometimes die....

 

that is how you play, win or lose stop crying and fight!!!

 

.Again:

Edited March 6, 2017 by NielsVisser

[Celtiberofrog]

What ? you posted it 1 hour ago !!!

 

[D4mi4nNL]

2 hours ago, The Redneck said:

I think it is a bit sad that we’ve managed to get to this point.

I have played NA for over a year now: found great people, made some friends. Got sunk, took prizes. We have discussed this issue at length, to no avail. I guess we all agree that NA has a lot of potential, but please let’s not forget that it is still a demo and not the final product. I have started to see a few negative reviews, mostly related to the nigh flips issue. To be honest, I cannot really understand what’s so cool about taking ports with no defence. It just seems to me a cowardly way of playing this game. As a Spaniard, I have fought against the US in numerous occasions, sometimes I have been in the winning side, sometimes not. But at least I have faced fully defended ports and screen fleets, not empty spaces.

I felt that NA was designed to be a real OW, 24/7, where every player had the chance to enjoy it. Not any longer. I think the time to tackle this issue is now, otherwise we seriously face the risk of having a one-side game. We have started to see the haemorrhage of players from the eastern alliance, and the players left refusing to engage with the US players any longer.

Let’s be mature, for the sake of the game and the community. I know that, as in real life, there are some toxic characters. Let’s ignore them and try to build a game that is enjoyable for all of us.

Or either we agree to a solution now, or the NA is in serious jeopardy.

My proposal is to revert to some kind of mix solution: the lord protector combined with flags and the current ‘heating’ system: a PB will be open once the area has reached 100% level, and its main port is open for PB within a time window of X hours around the time set up by the Lord Protector. The PB itself should open 24 hours after the zone has reached 100% heating (and not the current 48 hours, which impedes weekend attacks).

Other solutions proposed are not great, including splitting the servers. But that’s is where we are heading now.

Happy to discuss this, but only in a constructive manner. Trolls (you know who you are) please abstain of commenting here.

good wind!

there we go again another spain that whine about us prime time

[Celtiberofrog]

"...The offer was made a while ago, the answer was rejected.  "No agreements without alliance swaps"......."

Alliance swaps does not make any sense as any alliance including USA will have "advantage" thx to time zone coverage.

 

[The Redneck]

D4mi4n / NielsVisser - what a surprise you guys here bringing...nothing...to the discussion. I did not expect less (or more) from either of you.

Now, any proposal at all? anything? apart from copy and paste pics or a bearded guy that definitely does not look like you? I mean though.

 

[Impie]

Tell that to your Spanish friends, Celtiberofrog. The offer was made, but fully rejected. Take it up with your diplomats.

[fremen]

As every veteran player knows, it's impossible to reach an agreement with lots of toxic people like Christendom and so many others in the USA faction. Im against any agreement/proposal signed/discused about the night flips. This USA exploit must be removed at once by the devs spliting the servers. 

 

None agreement with such scum like USA players. Go to hell to all of them.

[Christendom]

21 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

"...The offer was made a while ago, the answer was rejected.  "No agreements without alliance swaps"......."

Alliance swaps does not make any sense as any alliance including USA will have "advantage" thx to time zone coverage.

 

The offer was made.  I think Spain has repeatedly say they will not negotiate with the US ever.  That stance has been taken by Spanish leadership well before I started getting involved.  

The US would love an agreement where our ports aren't attacked before a certain time during our work day and your guys would like to not have the same done to them at night.  

To North Vikings credit the did come to the US with a similar offer, but it was agree to these terms or we're going to attack these 3 ports.  Which of course was rejected.  

If you guys want to play ball you know where to find us.

[Christendom]

7 minutes ago, fremen said:

As every veteran player knows, it's impossible to reach an agreement with lots of toxic people like Christendom and so many others in the USA faction. Im against any agreement/proposal signed/discused about the night flips. This USA exploit must be removed at once by the devs spliting the servers. 

 

None agreement with such scum like USA players. Go to hell to all of them.

And I present the jury with exhibit A.  

[Mazinger]

The solution could be simpler than we expected. My suggestion to developers:

Option 1: free slots of harbor battles are filled with IA random ships with IA elite captains. It would be interesting if a human admiral (only one) could give orders to IA ships.

Option 2: port battles with a system similar to battleratio balance of battles in the open world, with a maximum of 25 vs 25. Minimum of 1 or 2 players per side with a defined time to be able to enter the battle waiting list. If a player enters the other side, then you can enter.

Timetable systems do not work, proof of this is the American server.

[Lord Amplify of Key West]

16:00 flips are the same as nightflips so long as they continue you are all being hypocritical and therefore your position has no ground to stand on this is a global game and chasing away the U.S playerbase will simply kill it and i don't think that that is what we want.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, NielsVisser said:

Before 18:00 is not only bad for the United States but for EU players to (when they have a job)

We dont cry like the eastern alliance that the battles are at a bad time.

some US players cant make it to early portbattles but we still assamble what we got and go fight and sometimes die....

 

that is how you play, win or lose stop crying and fight!!!

 

.Again:

It must be nice - and easy - to sit and say that you don't cry because of inconevenient times - there's allways more than enough of your players around to fill a PB even if it is inconvenient for some of you.. The same cannot be said for the other side and as such are not comparable circumstances. We've lost a lot of players thx to nightflips whereas the dutch have lost players simply because you ain't very good in PBs.. One is a mechanics issue, the other isn't - So pls stop the bs about whining..

[Guest]

1 hour ago, D4mi4n said:

there we go again another spain that whine about us prime time

There we go again another troll unknowing or uncaring that one side is actively destroying the game and has been for months.