Enforce 50% of PB Team To Be Primary Nation

[van der Clam]

This most likely will not be popular, but I suggest all PBs to require 50% of the Attacking Nation to require members of that nation and only 50% allowed as Allies. It's rather frustrating to be completely out-numbered by an enemy's ally and see only 2 or 3 of the actual nation attacking you.
It might also be interesting to allow allies to gain only 45% of the hostility. It's rather annoying for an ally of the enemy to gain 80-90% of the hostility points at their most convenient time, which is obviously early AM; not at the server's prime time. (But I understand a new hostility system is in the works.)
As stated, I'm certain this is not popular, but it is rather ridiculous facing nearly all enemy allies and hardly any actual enemy.

[Vernon Merrill]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Chesapeake

 

There is much precedent for having allies do a large part of the heavy lifting, so to speak...

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

Awwww did the little Dutch get beat by the Swedes finally cause they are in an alliance with Danes now?  How many US joined ya'll by the way?  I heard it was something like 25 vs 17/19 (heard both numbers) with some Danes still out side.  Would love to see a screen shot of how many actually where there on both sides.

 

As for the suggestion it's been mentioned on PvP1 I think too cause of smaller nations battles being filled with a larger aligned nation.   Maybe now you will know how Pirates felt who can't have any alliance and we have to fight US/BRITS/DUTCH 25+ with many out side screening so we can't even get all our numbers in which average about 10-15 most port battles if we are lucky, not counting kidds as that is the first time we got 25 in port battle since patch.

 

Alligeds only get 50% hostility of what ever the attacking/agro building nation puts on a port.  So say Swedes grind a port to 100% than the Danes only get credit as putting 50% on there, but this is so say the swedes grind it to 75%.  Than the Danes can come along and finish it off.  They only have half of that 75% so they can actually put 60% agro on that port and it will flip for the Swedes if no one stops them since that 30% of 60% would put the Swedes 75% over 100.

 

I would like to remind ya'll something.  Ya'll keep pocking a sleeping bear what happens?  He wakes up?  US keeps trying to flip Pounce. You are in an alliance with US aren't you not?   Well just think about that and let it sink in.  Who ports/regions are closer to the Danes?  Who do you think in that alliance they will counter attack and take ports/regions from?   

[van der Clam]

4 SV + 21 DN vs 16 VG + 3 US.
Rats aren't supposed to be a nation and rather be raiders able to sail in anywhere and steal anything. But until that becomes reality, the rats will continue to beg for undeserved sympathy. And we never poked the danes. Not sure why they started playing again....unless they're alts of those who already are playing. Not sure why they quit playing even, again unless they're mostly alts. But it's all good, something fun will come of this.
Still awaiting an end battle ss...

Edited January 16, 2017 by van der Decken

[Sir Texas Sir]

For the billionth and 1 time the DEVS said Pirates are a Nation they are the Pirates Republic.  Until we get are own mechanics we are treated as one.  So stop with that BS.   Just get over with it.   So until we have those mechanics and yes we want them we will have to do national things.  Do you really think you would want us raiding ports randomly with no way ya'll can conquest us cause we don't own regions?   I really think a lot of folks are going to hate that concept when it's actually put into game.  So what you have for now is way better.  Since we don't have alliance it keeps us in check so other nations can fight each other with us being the thorns in every one side.  Or even working as privateers screening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Pirates

12 years, that is a good long time by the way and that is what the Devs have linked every time some one brings up the pirates shouldn't be a nation thing. In all honesty the Pirates should be Privateers for different nations for hire.   Kinda like Mercs Unit are on MWO. My Unit almost always takes contracts with House Katrina, but a few times we have gone to work for smaller houses that are aligned with House Katrina to help them out.  While on contract they work for that nation and can use there ports/regions.   Than you can still have the true Pirates "OUTLAWS" that doesn't work for any nation.

 

Your lovely US alliance buddies have been putting agro on Pounce almost every day this week trying to flip it.  So thank them for waking the sleeping lions.  You know Dutch is way closer to any Dane port than US so think about if they want to strike back why not help the swedes and fight DUTCH.   I think ya'll just screwed your self more with an alliance with them than you think.  Remember when we went to war with Brits the US never really helped them get ports back.  All they did was capture Pirates ports (that us to be Brits) and keep them.  Yah if you have an alliance you can just cheese and use the others ports, but do you really want to have no regions and be using another nations ports/regions?   History tends to repeat it self, so watch when you poke the little nations.  Those little nations could be down to one port and than next you know they have half the server down to a few ports.  That is what happen with the Pirates.  US brought them down to Mort and camped out side it killing any new players that came out. That is why the Pirates pushed them back to 11 ports.  So watch it.  History has a lovely way of repeating it self in one way or another.  Swedes might be the new pirates....lol...ok maybe not but it's a good laugh.

 

[D4mi4nNL]

1 hour ago, van der Decken said:

This most likely will not be popular, but I suggest all PBs to require 50% of the Attacking Nation to require members of that nation and only 50% allowed as Allies. It's rather frustrating to be completely out-numbered by an enemy's ally and see only 2 or 3 of the actual nation attacking you.
It might also be interesting to allow allies to gain only 45% of the hostility. It's rather annoying for an ally of the enemy to gain 80-90% of the hostility points at their most convenient time, which is obviously early AM; not at the server's prime time. (But I understand a new hostility system is in the works.)
As stated, I'm certain this is not popular, but it is rather ridiculous facing nearly all enemy allies and hardly any actual enemy.

srs another whiner we cant do anything about that usa got other timezone that you have

dev admin or mod close this pls

[Elric]

The Danes quit playing when the PvP servers became PvE as a requirement for PB's.

The Dutch didn't seem to mind padding their PB side with GB & USA players when you took this port from the French, and now are complaining?

Allies are the only thing that keeps small nations from being wiped out by large carebear alliances - and the only hope for getting ports that can be used in crafting.

Edited January 16, 2017 by ElricTheTwo

[van der Clam]

The rat republic owned only 1 port, not even a region, and not even during the time period of the game.
We did not poke the little nation. In fact, we introduced a truce giving multiple regions to Sweden and France, agreed upon by them and the Brits and Dutch. That started well, until some rogue Swede everyone knows decided to attack a crucial region. Once that happened, friendship with Swedes was temporarily wrecked.
Thank you for the history "lesson" about what happened on the server months ago...
Oh and yes, I do think rats should be allowed anywhere and in any PB for any side. We should however get some notification that rats were spotted raiding. But I think most people could guess where they'd be raiding based on resources. 

[van der Clam]

8 minutes ago, ElricTheTwo said:

The Danes quit playing when the PvP servers became PvE as a requirement for PB's.

The Dutch didn't seem to mind padding their PB side with GB & USA players when you took this port from the French, and now are complaining?

Allies are the only thing that keeps small nations from being wiped out by large carebear alliances - and the only hope for getting ports that can be used in crafting.

With or without a French/Dutch alliance, we intended for France to regain lands. The issue preventing it was one particular begrudging Swede having access to all those war supplies and being allied with France. If France was not allied with Sweden and had a force able to prevent that Swede and his merry band taking it, it would not have been a problem.
Now with the Danes back online with a vendetta, there's nothing we can do about it. All PBs against us will just be early morning emptiness. Today was an exception being a holiday allowing many of us online. If we rejoin the BEAST alliance that others are so scaredy chicken of, it'll enable us to field a full early morning PB with our allies and only 1 or two of us. heh. Who knows what other nations/republics will force us into in the future....perhaps a repeat of history, perhaps not.
But this has little to do with the OP...it was just a suggestion to see who, if any, thought the same.

[Elric]

The fear of war supplies is a silly argument.  5-6 players can raise aggression from zero to 100% in one hour..  I raised aggression on Texas this weekend - 3 fleet missions - 40%+ aggression - I get a 5%-6% minimum aggression, an average of 8%+ , and often 12%+ on 169XP fleet missions.  10-12 169XP (or better) missions is all that needs to be run.  Given how long it often takes the aggression numbers to show accurately on the panel, nations have no defense against concerted aggression attacks through missions.  With 5 players running mission, the aggression is at 50% before the defender can react, and by the time the defenders see the numbers, the attackers are already well into their second (and final) set of missions.  Previously, I raise aggression on Texas from 0 to 100% by myself in a little over 3 hours.

Edited January 16, 2017 by ElricTheTwo

[Elric]

27 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

Now with the Danes back online with a vendetta, there's nothing we can do about it. All PBs against us will just be early morning emptiness.

The majority of the Danes are not USA based - they are in eastern Europe or the far east - so what is convenient to you and I is not to them.  Previously with the old flag system, we battled the same issue - the Danes set their port times so they were all able to play - but that was 8am eastern time (or earlier on a couple of ports) - not something the majority of west coast USA players could make.  There's no easy answer to this unless more servers are setup and you play the one best matched to your playing hours - and that won't happen with this sparse player base.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, van der Decken said:

The rat republic owned only 1 port, not even a region, and not even during the time period of the game.
We did not poke the little nation. In fact, we introduced a truce giving multiple regions to Sweden and France, agreed upon by them and the Brits and Dutch. That started well, until some rogue Swede everyone knows decided to attack a crucial region. Once that happened, friendship with Swedes was temporarily wrecked.
Thank you for the history "lesson" about what happened on the server months ago...
Oh and yes, I do think rats should be allowed anywhere and in any PB for any side. We should however get some notification that rats were spotted raiding. But I think most people could guess where they'd be raiding based on resources. 

Doesn't matter if they owned on port or 100, the devs said they are here to stay so get over your self and stop bringing it up.   You didn't, but US has been poking at Danes all week.  Guess who's in an alliance with them?  The history lesson is cause y'all don't get the hint.  You keep pushing folks back to one port some one is going to get fed up and get help and than they tend to bite back.  Taking some one down to one port will make them want to fight back harder.  Than when most of your PvPers get bored and switch nations you now have no one to fight back and get crushed.  This is what happens to US/Brits.  It wasn't cause Pirates stole the players.  It was cause your best players got bored and left.  Hasn't the Dutch lost a few good PvPers lately?   I know the Brits have lost a few too cause of the stupid alliance.  Lets not even guess what's going on with the NPG clan split thing.

Either way we can talk until we blue what we want with the pirates mechanic, but until the devs come out with those we are a Nation and have to follow the same rules every one else does just minus the alliance system.

1 hour ago, van der Decken said:

With or without a French/Dutch alliance, we intended for France to regain lands. The issue preventing it was one particular begrudging Swede having access to all those war supplies and being allied with France. If France was not allied with Sweden and had a force able to prevent that Swede and his merry band taking it, it would not have been a problem.
Now with the Danes back online with a vendetta, there's nothing we can do about it. All PBs against us will just be early morning emptiness. Today was an exception being a holiday allowing many of us online. If we rejoin the BEAST alliance that others are so scaredy chicken of, it'll enable us to field a full early morning PB with our allies and only 1 or two of us. heh. Who knows what other nations/republics will force us into in the future....perhaps a repeat of history, perhaps not.
But this has little to do with the OP...it was just a suggestion to see who, if any, thought the same.

You did not need to take France Texas/LA to stop the war supplies.  I can take a trader to just about a dozen ports and buy every thing I need to make war supplies with.  They don't need the french ports and prob weren't even using them for that.   I don't know who comes up with some of the stuff we hear that you guys think is going on, but man it's off the wall.   France was force into that alliance with Swedes and they got punished cause of it.  It was nice what Dutch did, but US had no room to take french ports over a Dutch/Swede fued.   As for taking crucial regions?  WHO'S?  Those regions weren't even ya'lls from the start.  THEY WHERE FRENCH.  Have you looked at the map lately?  Who owns the south eastern corner of the map and is number three for most regions?   Ya'll don't need a few regions here and there and they aren't crucial for ya'll cause you have those region bonus and resources all over the place in your own owned regions.  The only scaredy chickens I see are the US/BRITS/DUTCH that can't fight equal number fights so they make a super alliance so they have 35+ to fight against smaller nations that just field 5-15 at most.    Sounds like a bunch of cowards that can't fight on there own so they have to team up with each other.  Can I remember ya'll are the three biggest nations right now on the server.  While We might have more players than Dutch, we can't field that many players all the time either.  to be honest pirates and dutch are prob about equal on active players (not total) right now.  

The dutch was defending right?  So why couldn't they capped two circles and keep them?  Ya'll start out with one all ready being capped from the start.  It is harder for them to take more than two and that numbers 25 to 18 isn't that big of a difference.  If you got them spread out between two cap zones and keep a few guys back at A you could of captured one zone and split there fleet and crush half of it.  We where out number at Windward and we still won it on an attack.  You want to know how?  We where aggressive and sunk them as fast as we could to make equal numbers or more.   15 to 17 with us only loosing 4 and they lost 10.  Put it to 11 vs 7 at the end.   You got to be aggressive and not a bunch of care bear PvEr's. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, ElricTheTwo said:

The fear of war supplies is a silly argument.  5-6 players can raise aggression from zero to 100% in one hour..  I raised aggression on Texas this weekend - 3 fleet missions - 40%+ aggression - I get a 5%-6% minimum aggression, an average of 8%+ , and often 12%+ on 169XP fleet missions.  10-12 169XP (or better) missions is all that needs to be run.  Given how long it often takes the aggression numbers to show accurately on the panel, nations have no defense against concerted aggression attacks through missions.  With 5 players running mission, the aggression is at 50% before the defender can react, and by the time the defenders see the numbers, the attackers are already well into their second (and final) set of missions.  Previously, I raise aggression on Texas from 0 to 100% by myself in a little over 3 hours.

The last time we flipped Cap Frances we took all Curse mission in the same spot and hit them with I beleive 6 players.   We flipped it in just over an hour and half.  We had it above 50% before the guys even turned in one war supply  (they only count up to 50% when attacking).  It was the same when US flipped kids.  We couldn't get there fast enough to respond and stop them even though we had a few guys out trying to do fleet and hunt them down.  You get a good dedicated small group it's not hard at all to flip ports.   I notice when we do catch them.  They aren't taking curse mission and it's lower then 169 missions they are taking.  That is why it takes them so long to grind up agro and well US has War Supplied Kidds all three times they tried to flip it including the last time.  So that instant 50% gives you hardly any time to respond.  

 

The problem we have is that the stupid prot battle times don't allow us to do decent battle times.  By time most of us get home from work   So by time we get on and start grinding it's all ready past the time to get the last port battle.  They really need to fix the port battle timers back to something like when we where able to drop flags and can't pull them.  We really would like to have eve port battles but most of us are PST/CST so 5/6pm EST port battles that US/BRITS set up don't work cause we aren't home from work yet.   So instead we to get better odds just flip it and let the SEA/AUS players have fun in the mornings.

[monk33y]

I didn't read everything above so if this has already been suggested I'm sorry but couldn't a penalty for having over 50% non attacked nation players be introduced.

For example if a Spanish port is attacked and every player over the 12th man of non Spanish player automatically gives the attacking team a head start of 100 points. This would not be game breaking as a well organised team can easily overturn a hundred points down. But most importantly it adds a negative for excessive allie help.

Allies can still screen and rake part etc. If a port is defended by over the 12th man on two occasions that nations relationship gets -50 votes Durring the next voting stage!!

Just ideas but I foundation to build on

[Vernon Merrill]

LOL... this is what alliances are for...  I swear, people will complain about everything and anything...  the same people that were bitching about empty Port Battles a few months ago are probably the same ones bitching about WHO makes up the enemy fleets....

 

JUST....  STOP....  Complaining.....

[Prater]

You can't gain hostility for your ally.  This weekend we had 3 different allies showing up generating hostility on a single port, with each nation giving to their own pool.

 

Quote

(But I understand a new hostility system is in the works.)

Where have you heard this?

[Angus McGregor]

1 hour ago, Prater said:

You can't gain hostility for your ally.  This weekend we had 3 different allies showing up generating hostility on a single port, with each nation giving to their own pool.

Bingo!  I was wondering why ppl kept talking about raising hostility as a multi-national effort. Can't be done.

 

6 hours ago, van der Decken said:

(But I understand a new hostility system is in the works.)

On Dec 29th, admin said they were focused on port battles and hostility. The port battle rework is out and seems to be in good shape, so we have yet to see what they've done for hostility.

[Neverdead Ned]

The irony of a carebear nation complaining about people having their allies come in and help fight....priceless!

[Simon Cadete]

9 hours ago, van der Decken said:

This most likely will not be popular, but I suggest all PBs to require 50% of the Attacking Nation to require members of that nation and only 50% allowed as Allies. It's rather frustrating to be completely out-numbered by an enemy's ally and see only 2 or 3 of the actual nation attacking you.
It might also be interesting to allow allies to gain only 45% of the hostility. It's rather annoying for an ally of the enemy to gain 80-90% of the hostility points at their most convenient time, which is obviously early AM; not at the server's prime time. (But I understand a new hostility system is in the works.)
As stated, I'm certain this is not popular, but it is rather ridiculous facing nearly all enemy allies and hardly any actual enemy.

you didn't complain when it was the other way around and you had brits and us fill up a lot of spots on your side.

I love it!! you're an hypocrite...

[Sir Texas Sir]

I just noticed this.  Really do ya'll think every one is a pirate alt?  Are ya'll that paranoid?  I mean really?   By the way we where asked to not show up with ours so they can all get into the port battle.  We where only asked to screen and I believe only two Pirates did show up out side to screen.

We should make up a thread of the things PvP2 US/BRIT/DUTCH think the Pirates are doing.  I mean you know since we have a billion alts and we have hacks and we have special ships that can't be sunk.  Oh oh oh oh and we are zerging every one with our little numbers right now......ROLLS EYES.

[OneEyedSnake]

and in other news. the dutch have triggered 2 port battles, the british 2 and the us 2. rip pirates danes and swedes. lol. Jk. but i made you think for just a second. hehe. It would be interesting. To say the least though. Not sure thatd be good for smaller nations. But the best thing that could happen right now is better port timers for pvp.

 

[Kloothommel]

I like this.

 

[Yar Matey]

This will not work.  I am not sure if you have done any PB on PvP1, but getting to a port battle as the attackers is a massive undertaking as you are pulled into combat by screening fleets over and over.  Your allies try to help you get to the port battle, but sometimes, some of your guys don't make it to the battle, and slots need to be filled up to 25 to have even a chance at flipping the region.  The last port battle I was involved in, My Agamemnon along with 4 others that were supposed to participate in the attack on a port got pulled into combat by an overwhelming screening force of frigates, 2nd, and 3rd rates and we got sunk by the enemy and a few allies had to take our spot.  But I could see more than half our fleet getting tied up in a screening battle and we desperately need those allies in the port battle to attack.

Attacking a port and flipping a region is already a huge undertaking with the odds grossly stacked against the attackers.  Adding further restrictions on who can enter the port battle only further pushes the balance in favor of the defenders, who at this point do not need any further help from mechanics to defend a port. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Yar Matey

[Sir Texas Sir]

13 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

This will not work.  I am not sure if you have done any PB on PvP1, but getting to a port battle as the attackers is a massive undertaking as you are pulled into combat by screening fleets over and over.  Your allies try to help you get to the port battle, but sometimes, some of your guys don't make it to the battle, and slots need to be filled up to 25 to have even a chance at flipping the region.  The last port battle I was involved in, My Agamemnon along with 4 others that were supposed to participate in the attack on a port got pulled into combat by an overwhelming screening force of frigates, 2nd, and 3rd rates and we got sunk by the enemy and a few allies had to take our spot.  But I could see more than half our fleet getting tied up in a screening battle and we desperately need those allies in the port battle to attack.

Attacking a port and flipping a region is already a huge undertaking with the odds grossly stacked against the attackers.  Adding further restrictions on who can enter the port battle only further pushes the balance in favor of the defenders, who at this point do not need any further help from mechanics to defend a port. 

He's just crying cause some one other than there little carebear alliance of the three largest nations brought 25 to the port battle and it wasn't there side this time.   Why you think we keep doing morning flips.  Casue they don't show up with 35+ and we kinda might have a chance against US or Brit.  We only fight these two nations cause they are the only ones that have took our buffers and starting ports from us.  We just want them back and we will leave them alone.  Well not in the OW or screening for others.   To be honest the only reason there are any port battles on PvP2 is cause of us and the Swedes flipping them.  If it wasn't for us you might as well just make it PvE 2.

We actually joke about if there was a merger all them would rage and leave cause they won't be able to sit on over the majority of the map.  They would actually have to fight and fight against equal or more numbers.   I seen the fights on PvP1.  If the ping was better and well some of the players more friendly I would actually not mind it over there.   For one nations actually fight each other.

[van der Clam]

Read anything on here about big alliances and not having players online any more because of it and you will see who does the crying. If you want war, then use your alts in other nations and go to war. Already alts have caused havoc in politic voting. There is no reason danes, swedes, french, spanish, and rats can't all join up for war when the triliance returns...if ever it can with all the alts screwing up voting.

But who cares, every single post on here about suggestions or questions on the mechanics is created because it finally was experienced by the poster. It's all good, we will still have our fun, and should a big alliance return that certain ppl want to cry over and quit playing, then "Bye Felicias."

In the meantime, here is the current political status on PvP2. Complete fall out of the triliance, so that now each nation that was in it will no longer have support and the ones who always used to outnumber those nations can do it all over again and pad their jockstraps feeling like they've accomplished something. woot