Charles Caldwell Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 East India Company are not privateers. They were British merchants that had a fleet to protect there far flung investments. Privateers are private warships (usually individual small ships less than frigate size) with letters from a nation enabling them to legally carry out commerce raiding against particular enemy nations. They were for profit not nation building or large battles with large fleets. Yes I know, its was merely an example of Private Fleets reaching a substantial size...for then bigger than some nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I agree that the speed buffs are magical which is antithetical to NA philosophy. My only other concern is the appointment of commanders. I don't believe it should be automatic. I know that in real life the fleet got what they got but those Admirals were given command because of true proof of competence which will not be in the game. Instead we will have an arbitrary mechanic that assigns, not off of merit or ability, but off of stats. That will serve to frustrate us completely. I'd rather see this mechanic.... First the group can elect an admiral for their fleet... If that person declines the offer then the game will assign someone arbitrarily. Not all players will be good at commanding large fleets and it will irritate the crap out of us if the guy that will actually command for us (on TS) doesnt have the command and control functions. I know in rl you got what you got but that wont be fun in this battle game. Otherwise i love the rest of it. Should make it fun and adding an interactive map for the commanders and purpose for the small ships should make these battles much more interactive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagann Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 The main idea sounds great. The use of smaller ships is excellent and will make them essential in a battle. But as it was said before, the "magical" buffs is not the right track. Ships could gain bonus thanks to the the admiral's proximity, but only moral buff. We can imagine thanks to this high moral and adrenaline, crew will shot faster, will be more efficient, making the ship more reponsive, etc.. But please, no damage, speed, "health" buffs and other buffs from other unreaslitic games. A moral and xp bonus should be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggywrinkle Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I'd go further, and remove any benefits of following orders from the battle itself. Something along the lines of enhanced promotion prospects, as mentioned above, is something I could get behind. Such a tricky balance to get right, but I hope the devs err away from magic. How about the ability to rate a commander, and vice versa? Not remotely historic, but might encourage good play all round. Thoughts? Baggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Caldwell Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I'd go further, and remove any benefits of following orders from the battle itself. Something along the lines of enhanced promotion prospects, as mentioned above, is something I could get behind. Such a tricky balance to get right, but I hope the devs err away from magic. How about the ability to rate a commander, and vice versa? Not remotely historic, but might encourage good play all round. Thoughts? Baggy I agree once 'Magic' is introduced the game will lose its uniqueness... morale boosts, promotion increases all seem reasonable and inline with the spirit of the game. Start on the slippery slope of magical buffs and where does it end? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinch Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Without reading many of the comments here (lack of time), i say this is icing on the cake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huliotkd Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 to grow up reputation should use a merit system e. g. : i follow orders during a battle winning or loosing or getting sunk(doesn' t care)? ok i earn rep with Navy Admiralty tha allows me to command a superior class ship...this, only following orders. the superior class ship maybe should be limited ti small ship until brigantine or light corvette (i don't know the game's ships so i just invent). but i want to command bigger ships!! ok, in addition to following orders, you need to win X battle as gregarious of your battle commander. then, if you are interested to Navy career, Admiralty can afford to you its first warship maybe 6th rate (invent). do you prefer avoid Navy career? ok your notoriety wil be redirect into tavern as you are a ''quite strong Privateer'' or ''freelancer'' ecc ecc. do you want bigger ships? ok you have to follow orders, win X battle as greg and Y as Commander...go to 5th rate ships, or reliable privateer or ''little pirate'' i don't know...as Navy officer now you have to obey Superior Order of Lord Admiral bla bla and maybe making some commerce between Royal Missions, or obtain letter of marque as prevateer and and and... must be decided whether the battles are to be considered only PVP or PVE...maybe for the starting ship classes is enough PVE or little PVP battle with AI Commander or similar sorry if i wrote something already existing but i don't know this game very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Caldwell Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Adding an incentive to following orders is a must for the Navy, otherwise as already stated why do it? By linking it directly to a promotion scale is a clever way of ensuring obedience in battle... those who go rogue or those who prefer lone wolf actions will find that the Navy isn't for them very quickly. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebooter Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I only joined the forum recently and hadn't noticed this thread until it was referenced by Charles Caldwell, who is doing sterling work in advertising this exciting game, especially amonst those of a nautical bent who will be only to keen to promote it amongst wargamers and other internet users. There are some brilliant ideas from the Devs here. The concept and scope of this project is very impressive. Hopefully some of these concepts such as orders and a chain of command will prevent it from turning out like World of Tanks, where players are often extremely selfish and which is often at the outset by a mad rush of players who "die" in the first two minutes, and are unable or unwilling to listen to others and work together. I would also hope that there will be a means of enforcing or encouraging standards of polite behaviour. Perhaps the idea of a system of rewards might help in this. I daresay the Devs will try to avoid the mistakes and shortcomings of other internet participation games. I must get properly involved with this soon. I am hesitating at the moment because I am not sure my PC is up to it, hopefully I can sort things out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviathan Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I like this idea and support where it's going. However, I have to echo the thoughts of those who are concerned about any magical abilities. I personally don't want to see any kind of unrealistic magic, buffs, or debuffs that is rampant in other games. I want victory to be awarded to those who display the most precision, skill, and strategy in a particular battle. Morale boosts or other similar elements that could be represented in real life could possibly be okay. However, I don't want to see any unrealistic speed or accuracy boosts that are determined by proximity, location, etc. Leave it skill based and let that determine the victor. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I don't know if I even like the morale boost. I can't imagine that morale would increase on a fighting ship just because the admiral is in range. That seems pretty magical as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Nothing magical at all about it. A crew is drastically less likely to surrender if they perceive that they are surrounded by the main force of allies. On the one hand they don't want to be seen giving up before their comrades do, on the other they have good prospects for being rescued from any tough spot. The trick is to tie this sort of bonus to following orders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Agreed but that is different than just the fact that the admiral is near. Its about the group as a whole. As well, if their is a morale boost than i imagine it would be given just at the beginning of the fight and not during as the admiral comes in and out of range since they are focused on firing guns and not on the fact that there is another ship next to them which they can't even see under most circumstances below deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marik Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I too am a little worried about the "magical" bonuses that may be granted. Part I didn't like about POTBS was the magical overblown skills, made it too much like all the other MMO's and much less like a naval battle/simulation. That's what got me excited about seeing this, was the more historical lead of the game. Maybe if we come up with some other ways of rewarding those that follow orders - any suggestions people? (am thinking too...) Also can we do a Horatio Nelson and look with our "blind eye" and ignore the orders? Good fortune Marik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 A game that makes Pirates & Privateers as strong as the Navy, makes the Navy redundant. Good bye Naval players! The easiest solution is to restrict the rated vessels to the Navy only. Exactly. Privateers and pirates should never be hunting navies. National navies were always untouchable. The exception would perhaps be a nation of pirates like Algeria\tunisia(barbary states). And well, they are a nation AND never hunted other navies to boot. I don't want some hippy colony of privateers who managed to get a population of millions onto their tiny island sending out 50 100 gun ship of the lines with an admiral. P.S. I am also against magic abilities. But I must say for every ship to be different they do need to be affected by the environment, upkeep and the way they were built or modified. Modified can be putting ballast in which may seem like magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggywrinkle Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I'm sure there are more elegant ways of keeping SoLs out of pirate hands than simply banning them. Previously mentioned by the community and/or devs were things like upkeep costs, supporting infrastructure and kill-on-sight rules. Seems a little more fun to me than a blanket restriction Poor devs, they suggest a nice idea and we all label it magic and jump on it! However, it definitely seems a step towards making 'skill' in NA the playing of the buff/debuff game rather than pure handiness and cohesion of vessel management. Glad we all agree that that would be a pity. Baggy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I am not suggesting a ban Tell me though that the quote below from the devs does not make you think they are allowing privateer fleets? i.e. large numbers of nation defending ships that usually include ships purpose built for war. "Progression in Navy and Privateer Fleets (or other organized Naval Organizations) " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 I am not suggesting a ban Tell me though that the quote below from the devs does not make you think they are allowing privateer fleets? i.e. large numbers of nation defending ships that usually include ships purpose built for war. "Progression in Navy and Privateer Fleets (or other organized Naval Organizations) " It's a sandbox. There are no classes. There will be no privateer fleet or a pirate fleet. It's just a player fleet. Because it's a sandbox you can go out and show them who is the boss if they are sailing ships you don't think they should be sailing. Hunt them, sink them, burn their cities and hear lamentations of their women 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Caldwell Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 The size of the fleet for me isn't that much of an issue, the consistency of the fleet is... if non naval fleets are packed with 1st raters, then the term Navy doesn't exist. Will you be allowing rated vessels to non-naval fleets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 The size of the fleet for me isn't that much of an issue, the consistency of the fleet is... if non naval fleets are packed with 1st raters, then the term Navy doesn't exist. Will you be allowing rated vessels to non-naval fleets? That was discussed extensively in the SOL topic somewhere on the forum. Lets keep this thread on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Caldwell Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Sure I shall try to locate it.... sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 It's a sandbox. There are no classes. There will be no privateer fleet or a pirate fleet. It's just a player fleet. Because it's a sandbox you can go out and show them who is the boss if they are sailing ships you don't think they should be sailing. Hunt them, sink them, burn their cities and hear lamentations of their women I must have been thinking of the campaign/open world where you choose a nation In the sand box why mention nations\privateers etc then. As for the Conan the Barbarian line. I am going to protect the Women Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Caldwell Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Hmm no Naval class.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barberouge Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Sure I shall try to locate it.... sorry. Here they are: The Economy and 1st Rates and also Method of obtaining vessels. Also there's a List if the Forum Topics referencing the subjects (Open World \ Ships). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 What I've gathered from previous posts and I guess the admin can clarify if i am wrong is that at the beginning of the game you will not create a character that is either a Naval Officer, Privateer, Trader, or Pirate. It doesn't mean that you can't join the Navy of your given country and become a Naval Officer and then later use your Naval man of war for piracy and become a pirate. Your "class" is not set in stone like in Potbs. It is determined by how you play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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