Hotfix for patch 9.97: Land in port battles

[Angus McGregor]

1 hour ago, sruPL said:

I assume logging out and screening fleets wa not fixed?

Port logging (by attacker) is fixed since they must be outside the OW attack (largest) circle to trigger the PB swords... if I understood admin correctly.

[Stilgar]

I would suggest us all not to over-analyze the proposal, but just give it a good test. In one-two PB's we'll learn more than in weeks of discussions.

I see plenty of positives and just few concerns in this new mechanics, wind management being the most important one, for it will decide much if not all. Intuitively, the wind in battle should not be entirely predictable. For example, the original direction should be identical to that in OW at the moment of joining, but it should not necessarily follow the same change pattern as in OW.

Anyway, as long as there are many ways to victory in such PBs, it should be fun.

 

[PIerrick de Badas]

you said first ship in determine the wind.

What if a defender enter in with a bad wind for attackers?

Are defender able to enter into the port before attackers?

 

Second point i'm in mood for 2 things

- Lets the screen count for the pb

or

- organise the pb with a lobby before where attackers can choose their tactic like in potbs

[van der Clam]

6 hours ago, elite92 said:

will the limit for 4th rate and shallow still remain? will the "all agamemnon" , "all ocean" remain in port battles? or u gonna do something about different ships in pb? like slots or br limit?

This is why it would be great in PB World to have cap circles in shallow areas and in deep areas. Then we could have a fleet of shallow ships run off to a shallow cap while deep ships destroy defenders, forts, and try capping the deep cap circle.

But, they said shallows in PBs are impossible.

Edited December 19, 2016 by van der Decken

[Vernon Merrill]

Admin, would it be possible to get a bird's-eye view like the two you posted of EVERY port?  Perhaps you could make them a loot drop or something? I imagine that they would be VERY valuable to players planning RvR...  Or maybe you can implement it as some sort of explorer mission?  Especially if the conquest circles became randomly-generated after each successful port attack....  Just a thought.  Cant wait to test these out!

[Siegfried]

1 hour ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Admin, would it be possible to get a bird's-eye view like the two you posted of EVERY port?  Perhaps you could make them a loot drop or something? I imagine that they would be VERY valuable to players planning RvR...  Or maybe you can implement it as some sort of explorer mission?  Especially if the conquest circles became randomly-generated after each successful port attack....  Just a thought.  Cant wait to test these out!

Were hot air balloon for observation invented in this era? They floating so high?

[Koltes]

@admin First of all great effort and THANK YOU!
 

7 hours ago, admin said:

We have not yet found an elegant solution for ship limitations in pb without the lobby and without griefing potential.

Will there be plans to create lobby for PB that players enter and organize themselves into appropriate slots prior entering battle?
e.g. sail to PB and enter join circle, this gets you into the lobby (pre-battle / deployment screen), once time has run up everyone who is in the slots joins the battle, the rest remain in the lobby.

 

Can't really comment much on PB mechanics until tried, however got 1 question. BF3 style arena is based on equal numbers. What has been done in the new coming PB mechanics to balance that? If nothing has been done is there something planned in this regard or is this a very early stage and you require player feedback first?

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by koltes

[Pasha Souvenir2]

Простите за вопрос не по теме. А сейчас в чем смысл захвата города, что глобально дает, бонусы какие? Я по прежнему не вижу смысла в обладании еще парой регионов. Бонус в характеристиках корабля при его строительстве - ну так если город захвачен, то у союзников есть похожий. Помимо земли на ПБ, которая очень надеюсь увеличит интересность, еще не хватает пользы от обладания таким городом.

В будущем, форты, можно ли будет отстраивать самим? Если они разбиты в этом сражении, то на следующее они снова целые? 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Pasha Souvenir2

[Cecil Selous]

1 hour ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Admin, would it be possible to get a bird's-eye view like the two you posted of EVERY port?  Perhaps you could make them a loot drop or something? I imagine that they would be VERY valuable to players planning RvR...  Or maybe you can implement it as some sort of explorer mission?  Especially if the conquest circles became randomly-generated after each successful port attack....  Just a thought.  Cant wait to test these out!

Could be implemented in the future raid mechanic. Obtain a map of the port and all his defenses, capture zones. Hmm, if we only had shallows and drafts.

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 hours ago, The Spud said:

I read the patchnotes obviously, but I do think the attackers will not wait on wind to change before entering, because:

- The 90 minute timer is running while the defenders have time to take position on the objectives.

- If you wait for wind to change, you're basicaly sitting ducks for screeners.

So I don't believe attackers will be "waiting" to join a PB till the wind changes in their favour.

On PB's like on the image, attackers can enter from best wind angle, but in a PB like Salamanca, belize, and many others. The angles of approach are limited of non existend (salamanca especialy) so you can have situations where you need to sail upwind or risk having to wait 20 minutes for the wind to become reasonably good.

I think it'll take some PB's till the best tactic is found.

and all that time your waiting the defenders could be  controling the three zones and getting points built up.

9 hours ago, admin said:

no. shallows in battles is a complex task requiring a lot of development hours. we tried and its impossible to do it in a reasonable time. there will be no shallows in battles. 

Do you mean no shallows period as in no shallow port battles in shallow waters or do you mean no shallow waters as in a mix of deep and shallow waters so that shallow ships can go into islands and passages that other ships can't?   I assume you mean the second one as the shallow waters are still going to be restricted on ship types right?  Same with the none Lineship battles.  Though if this could be something in the future to have actual shallow water in deep water port battles so a fleet of light ships can take a passage that other ships can't take would be cool in the future.  One step at a time.

9 hours ago, elite92 said:

will the limit for 4th rate and shallow still remain? will the "all agamemnon" , "all ocean" remain in port battles? or u gonna do something about different ships in pb? like slots or br limit?

Every been in an OW battle arond some of these ports that have a harbor or bunch of islands?  Those big slow ships will be out ran and maneuvered in those waters and you have a bunched of irons/beached ships if one of the captured zones are in some of these interesting ports.  I'm so waiting to see how some of them turn out.

9 hours ago, rediii said:

now change something on the hostilitymechanic so it's not pve pain anymore please

The times that Port battles can't be done needs to change.  The one right now means that on the PvP2 server we have to flip a port before 10PM CST to get at the latest an 8PM port battle. That is still when some folks on the west coast are just getting home from work.   Even worse it takes like 2-3 hours of a good big fleet with no resistance to flip that port in that time so you have to start before 5-6 pm when most folks are getting home from work/school CST and most folks are at work PST.  The only folks that get an advantage are the EST folks that would be all ready home from work.  And the first port battle after server time is exactly when servers come up from one hour maintenance.  So what happens when we have a patch and it's 2 or more down times?  They need to move the window to no port battles to two hours before the servers go down and three hours from when they go down.  Right now it's 4 hours before servers go down and only one hour for maintenance.  

9 hours ago, admin said:

stationary ships are vulnerable to perked mortar brigs. 

They are nice juicy targets for sure.  Have destroyed and gave a good number of them a really bad day.

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 hours ago, admin said:

no.. there are 5 circles on the screen. large outside one.. smaller inside one. and 3 capture zones. 

Attackers will be able to join anywhere outside of the large circle. its just not showing well due to fog.

 

9 hours ago, elite92 said:

maybe i misread the patch notes so... attackers can join anywhere OUTSIDE the bigger circle? and defenders anywhere inside the smaller cirlce? so no ships can join between the circles?

That how I was taking it too. The one inner small zone to cap is started in control of the defenders. The two over or in the middle for them to fight over.  Though this is kinda against smaller nations that can't split there force and can only fight at one zone or the other.  Time to get some recruiting done than.  I'm going to bet somer Mortar Brigs are going to show up more and more in these battles.  

7 hours ago, Yar Matey said:

What's wrong with simply testing a hybrid flag and hostility system.  Pulling flags for port battles can be used as a good way to generate hostility.  Griefing can be easily fixed by simply banning a player (or an alt) from pulling a flag for 1 week if the player that pulls the flag and never plants it.  Also, if the enemy manages to stop the flag carrier from planting, then he cannot buy a flag for 1 week.  

Why don't we wait for them to maybe get raid mechanics in as that seems to be in the near future.  One thing at a time.  There is nothign wrong with the current system in my book if you have a decent size nation, the problems i have is the 5 min missons timers that are closed to fast (go back to 15 or even 10)  5 gives little to no time for you to get to your scout that finds the mission and enter it.   As for the false flags things, It should create hostility for that zone or if you pull a false flag it should have a cool down for that port/zone and make agro go away.  That will stop folks from pulling flags if they have some type of system like that for raids.  We will just have to wait until that comes along if it does.

2 hours ago, koltes said:

@admin First of all great effort and THANK YOU!
 

Will there be plans to create lobby for PB that players enter and organize themselves into appropriate slots prior entering battle?
e.g. sail to PB and enter join circle, this gets you into the lobby (pre-battle / deployment screen), once time has run up everyone who is in the slots joins the battle, the rest remain in the lobby.

 

Can't really comment much on PB mechanics until tried, however got 1 question. BF3 style arena is based on equal numbers. What has been done in the new coming PB mechanics to balance that? If nothing has been done is there something planned in this regard or is this a very early stage and you require player feedback first?

 

Thanks

 

 

I'm not a big lobby fan cause when folks sit and wait on each other it breaks down the motion of things of just going for it.  That and than you have folks boss about who can enter and fight and who can't.  Remember the balance is the 25 vs 25 system assuming you have the numbers which PvP1 should, they shouldn't change the mechanics for a smaller pop server.  Later when the game is live I assume there will be more players on both sides.  What they need to fix is when the PvP2 US players can have Port Battles.  We are currently locked out of doing PB during our high pop times on the server cause we can only flip a port before 10PM CST for an 8 PM battles which means you ahve to start grinding 2-3 hours ahead.  That might be prime time for east coast players but it's not for CST and PST players.  In fact most of the PST players will still be in school or at work with most the CST just getting home.     This is why we had such low turn out for the last few fights where we got attacked by US or Brits.  It was not during server prime time to get the most players in to the fights.

['Sharpe]

Has there been anything done to address attackers coming to the port early and simply logging off, and then logging back in once the PB starts and jumping right into battle, without any risk? Part of the fun of the old flag system was intercepting the incoming attacking fleet. I can't see anything that addresses this issue, but maybe I missed it.

[Koltes]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I'm not a big lobby fan cause when folks sit and wait on each other it breaks down the motion of things of just going for it. 

Right now we sit for 5 minutes in the actual PB when they join and shift those slots in the open - center, front, rear - and it doesn't break down the motion.
What I proposed is not an actual lobby, but pre-battle deployment tools.

 

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

That and than you have folks boss about who can enter and fight and who can't.  Remember the balance is the 25 vs 25 system assuming you have the numbers which PvP1 should, they shouldn't change the mechanics for a smaller pop server.

Clan that got most hostility or pulled the flag or somehow responsible for the starting of the PB is the clan that has right to assign people to key position slots. This can actually be first in first served type or controlled entry (up to those who started the PB). Why not give an option to those who started the conquest what type entry is this?
If you remember there where fights when we pulled a flag and came with the iron fleet to cap the port and there where other pirates on 5th rates. We asked them not to join and they did leaving our 1st rates treading water outside PB.
I see this as an issue. Do you not?

 

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

This is why we had such low turn out for the last few fights where we got attacked by US or Brits.  It was not during server prime time to get the most players in to the fights.

Sorry man, the lack of turnout had little to do with the time. Yes of course inconvenience etc but the prime reason was due to huge drop of population. We have had 3 clan members online at the best no matter was it a prime time or quiet time.

 

[PongoNW]

The attacker has access to points the defender does not have. The towers can be destroyed from orbit by mortar brigs but there is no "landing fleet" for the defenders to destory. Which would be their actual mission.

[Angus McGregor]

1 hour ago, 'Sharpe said:

Has there been anything done to address attackers coming to the port early and simply logging off, and then logging back in once the PB starts and jumping right into battle, without any risk? Part of the fun of the old flag system was intercepting the incoming attacking fleet. I can't see anything that addresses this issue, but maybe I missed it.

Yep - you missed it, Attack circle explained here

Attackers must be outside the huge attack circle to trigger the PB swords for joining. This completely undoes the PB port logoff tactic.

[Wesreidau]

I'm looking forward to port battles being grand events.

[monk33y]

Admin iv noticed no information on ship capturing Durring the pb! Please could to highlight how a captured ship alters the point system. 

Do you get points for sinking or does the captured ship act as a +1 for your team?

On a side note all of these questions on be restrictions and ship sizes, wouldn't the easiest system be based around crew Size? The port limit is for example a fleet made of 7000 (number pulled out of thin air)crew (more or less for region assets) then both teams build the fleets around having a limited crew pool. This would enable for example only 15 oceans or 18 victorys but a wider mixture of smaller ships. This makes mods like gold hams more important as it gives you a bigger crew pool outside the battle restrictions.

Shallow battles have drastically smaller crew pools as it's shallow also it limits the trolls and randoms effecting a battle as it's only crew Size not br 

Edited December 20, 2016 by monk33y

[Ned Loe]

By looking at the numbers I can tell that the best way for an Attacker to get quick win would be:

1. Send Brig Group reinforced with Heavy Frigates/4th and Take out Forts/Towers. This will give an Attacker head start of 100 or 300 points.

2. Attacker then should only target SoLs who give away 40 points. So, if you take out 2 Forts you will get 300 points reducing kill requirements to 18 SoLs. if you want a quick Victory or get head room with one zone in control. Since SoLs will give away the most points, Brig group reinforced with Heavy Frigates/4th start hunting slow moving or stationary SoLs.

3. Attacker must hold 2 Zones as well, but not required. If an Attacker holds 1 zone and sink ships fast he will win anyway. 

-----------------------

Attacker With One Zone

1 Zone - 24 Points Per Minute - 42 Mins will Generate 1008 Points

Attacker With Two Zones

2 Zones 48 Points per Minute - 21 Mins will generate 1008 Points

-------------------------------------

If 2 Forts are Destroyed +300

1 Zone - 24 Points Per Minute - 30 Mins will Generate 720 Points

2 Zones 48 Points per Minute - 15 Mins will generate 720 Points

Question is how long does it take to sail from one zone to another? If it takes 10-15 mins to sail from 1 zone to another zone this will result in easy win for the team who took 2 Zones and popped 2 Forts. Other team is never going to make it on time to retake the zone.

 

 

 

 

[van der Clam]

I still believe that once we attackers build hostility to 100%, that we get to choose when to attack during the next 48 hours (like setting port timer during the Conquest Flag era) and that defenders do not get to choose when the battle starts. The PB should never close because defenders join the PB. It should stay open based on the attacker joining. Of course alts will purposely screw us, but nothing we can do about that, alts are alts...

[Eishen]

2 hours ago, Wind said:

Attacker With One Zone

1 Zone - 24 Points Per Minute - 42 Mins will Generate 1008 Points

NOt the case, according to Admin post : "

For points to tick your side has to control more zones than the enemy. 

so you cannot be receiving those. Attacker needs to control (or at least not allow defender control themselves) two zones

[elite92]

u get conquest points only if u control more zone than the enemy, so if u control 1 zone enemy must control 0 in order to get point <--- very difficult to happen. even if both control 1 zone no1 get points. maybe it will be a huge fight for the 3rd zone + frigates running to other zones

[Wesreidau]

If these battles go on without coming to a decision, I'd love if, say 45 or 60 minutes later, the battle re-opens for new ships to join. They would need to join from the outer 'attackers' circle. It would mean players who missed the battle due to tagging or screening can still join their faction if the fight has become a stalemate. Meanwhile defenders or attackers will prowl around outside a port battle for an hour, keeping the place secure so their side won't face enemy reinforcements.

[Sir Texas Sir]

6 hours ago, Wind said:

By looking at the numbers I can tell that the best way for an Attacker to get quick win would be:

1. Send Brig Group reinforced with Heavy Frigates/4th and Take out Forts/Towers. This will give an Attacker head start of 100 or 300 points.

2. Attacker then should only target SoLs who give away 40 points. So, if you take out 2 Forts you will get 300 points reducing kill requirements to 18 SoLs. if you want a quick Victory or get head room with one zone in control. Since SoLs will give away the most points, Brig group reinforced with Heavy Frigates/4th start hunting slow moving or stationary SoLs.

3. Attacker must hold 2 Zones as well, but not required. If an Attacker holds 1 zone and sink ships fast he will win anyway. 

-----------------------

Attacker With One Zone

1 Zone - 24 Points Per Minute - 42 Mins will Generate 1008 Points

Attacker With Two Zones

2 Zones 48 Points per Minute - 21 Mins will generate 1008 Points

-------------------------------------

If 2 Forts are Destroyed +300

1 Zone - 24 Points Per Minute - 30 Mins will Generate 720 Points

2 Zones 48 Points per Minute - 15 Mins will generate 720 Points

Question is how long does it take to sail from one zone to another? If it takes 10-15 mins to sail from 1 zone to another zone this will result in easy win for the team who took 2 Zones and popped 2 Forts. Other team is never going to make it on time to retake the zone.

 

 

 

 

You forget something.  Defenders can have mortar brigs too.  If attackers move theirs close enough to get the forts than the defenders are prob closer to there Mortar brigs and escorts and can rain on them.  Also any SOL sitting still is a big target for a mortar brig.  This morning at Baracoa port battle I was in the mortar brig on the attacking team (Pirates)  I did almost 10K damage to a l'Ocean, 1K to a Bucc and 500 to some 5th rate I think I randomly hit along with taking out 2 towers (only one that counted) until the defenders rushed and took me out, but I did my job.  That l'Ocean was pretty much out of the fight after that as he was sunk very quickly.  

So both attacking and defending teams will prob have to start doing a mix of ships depending on the port features.

 

I think it would be nice if we can get some screen shots of the regional ports cause some of these spots folks have never battle in and the attackers should have some clue of the features before just jumping into there first battle after the patch.  Kinda same goes for the defenders.

[Kiithnaras]

On 12/19/2016 at 8:48 AM, Snoopy said:

For testing, can we get the old flag mechanic back (for a while) to produce more PBs? (Don't remove hostility mechanic, just put the flags back on top)

No. Never ever ever. It was broke as shit and exploited to hell and back by a few organized elites. This system forces cooperation and dedication to flip ports/counties. It isn't perfect, but throwing conquest flags on top is bad news bears.

[Kiithnaras]

On 12/19/2016 at 11:41 AM, admin said:

Points distribution

[Numbers]

Based on these initial numbers, if a port is uncontested but attackers don't bring mortar brigs and instead use fast ships to take all three points quickly and then just back off to let things cap on their own, the fastest one will flip a port is just under 14 minutes (6 points every 5 seconds). With the addition of a few mortar brigs to take on towers and forts, This allows uncontested port capping down to around 6-10 minutes at the very least. Still pretty reasonable, all things considered, and in many ways still on par with the rapid port flips of uncontested ports that we have today. It's a solid design and should go far. The only suggestion I can think of at this time to add on top of would be point capture/defense XP and gold rewards. Perhaps award XP and gold to captains that participate in point captures and a slow trickle of the same for remaining in a controlled capture circle.

Edit: Also, add a 10-point bonus for each enemy ship that escapes the battle. It isn't worth as much as sinking or captures, but in forcing enemy ships to flee, you're making it easier to take the port.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Kiithnaras