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Battle screen camping, log off camping - final proposal

Log off camping/BR screen camping is a problem  

165 members have voted

  1. 1. Log off camping/BR screen camping is a problem

    • Yes
      111
    • No
      52


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Yes, indeed, this is quite a tricky question. I've read through some of the suggestions here and I find that the new update addresses this problem perfectly. However, I would add a limited range for teleportation to friendly ports, ESPECIALLY if you have cargo. Because now you can as a Danish player for example get some Bermuda wood up in Bermuda and then, through the battle screen, teleport yourself and the cargo all the way down to the Bimini (Bahamas). This is a big way for other nations too to get out of the way of pirates etc. which reduces PvP and loot.

Edited by Lz3
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I think with the question of cargo then how about you get teleported to the last friendly port visited. That way you made no progress towards your destination and is not some harsh idea that even though you escaped you still lost all your cargo - that seems unfair to me.

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3 hours ago, Bacchreus said:

I think with the question of cargo then how about you get teleported to the last friendly port visited. That way you made no progress towards your destination and is not some harsh idea that even though you escaped you still lost all your cargo - that seems unfair to me.

I very strongly disagree with that. You start off at a friendly port at one end of the map (swede for example is in a corner), sail to Bermuda or some other corner and you get a FREE teleportation all the way across the map WITH your cargo.

Your suggestion implements what the developers have been trying to prevent - getting cargo from place to place without using the open world.
(Example: Cannot teleport to capital with items in hold, cannot tow ship to outpost or teleport it (before the patch) to an outpost with hold items)

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14 hours ago, Lz3 said:

I very strongly disagree with that. You start off at a friendly port at one end of the map (swede for example is in a corner), sail to Bermuda or some other corner and you get a FREE teleportation all the way across the map WITH your cargo.

Your suggestion implements what the developers have been trying to prevent - getting cargo from place to place without using the open world.
(Example: Cannot teleport to capital with items in hold, cannot tow ship to outpost or teleport it (before the patch) to an outpost with hold items)

Seems you didn't actually read what I said. If the player that escapes combat gets teleported to the port he last visited then his entire trip up until then was a waste of time and he'd probably have to do it again. So in your edge case scenario that the player travels to bermuda with cargo. gets in a fight, escapes that fight and has to teleport back to the last port he left. Thus he never reached the goal of his journey and has to do it again.

 

However if your looking at it from a piracy point of view then sure the cargo stolen in a battle can be teleported safely to the last port he visited, but in all honesty most of the Pirate activity i've seen is more about hanging around and ganking outnumbered players and not about capturing their cargo.

 

The entire argument most were advocating was essentially that cargo haulers (traders) shouldn't be able to shortcut their journey. My solution solves that.

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25 minutes ago, Bacchreus said:

Seems you didn't actually read what I said. If the player that escapes combat gets teleported to the port he last visited then his entire trip up until then was a waste of time and he'd probably have to do it again. So in your edge case scenario that the player travels to bermuda with cargo. gets in a fight, escapes that fight and has to teleport back to the last port he left. Thus he never reached the goal of his journey and has to do it again.

 

However if your looking at it from a piracy point of view then sure the cargo stolen in a battle can be teleported safely to the last port he visited, but in all honesty most of the Pirate activity i've seen is more about hanging around and ganking outnumbered players and not about capturing their cargo.

 

The entire argument most were advocating was essentially that cargo haulers (traders) shouldn't be able to shortcut their journey. My solution solves that.

I totally agree with that, I like that suggestion. However, see here:

"

I think with the question of cargo then how about you get teleported to the last friendly port visited. "

In your comment above you say the last friendly port. That's my point. If you travel to Bermuda as a trader with a smugglers flag, Bermuda is not a friendly port. Which would mean you get teleported to the last friendly port you left, which would be idk somewhere. 

 

What you stated above is a great idea, that he gets teleported to the last visited port. But yeah, pirates etc. smh

15 hours ago, Lz3 said:

 

Edited by Lz3

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On 2016-12-06 at 1:23 PM, admin said:

If you escaped the battle you no longer will be placed in the same spot in the open world - if you escaped you escaped. No need to try to give someone a second chance to get you. To do so we will give the player the option to either exit to the open world or teleport him to the certain friendly port (for example nearest friendly port).  That's what would real life captain would do in case of certain danger - try to escape to the nearest friendly port.

On 2016-12-06 at 1:23 PM, admin said:

 

Problems

 

  1. People log off at sea (quality of life feature) and then log in to enter port battles or attack others
  2. People sit in battle result screen to attack others or avoid gank
  3. People wait outside to wait for someone to come out from the BR screen wasting time

The issue with 2 and 3 is caused by the following design. If you escaped you are still put into the same place in the open world totally disregarding the fact that you repositioned in battle. In reality problems 2 and 3 would never happen because if you escaped you escaped and got to port. In our game if you escaped you are still placed (punished) and placed to the same area giving attackers a second attempt to sink you.

 

Well it's unfortunate this never worked out. We really need another solution, this griefing is out of hand and we are right back to where we were. Basic cutters and other smaller rated ships are now griefing everyone in sight with no intention of fighting and laughing about it.Some sort of mechanic needs to be put in place and soon to stop these trolls. This is absolutely ludicrous and needs to be fixed.

Edited by Neptune

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Post battle port TP and two minute timers were removed over a year ago; two very obvious features to make OW fair. I guess the geniuses have finally realized again that invisibility is not enough to prevent you from getting curb-stomped post battle.

 

The cyclical irony of Naval Action. 

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 If it is changed, will it be changed back to how it is now in a few months time?

 Groundhog day.

 Sorry to be flippant but this happens over and over and over again with different things lol.

 

 

 

Edited by Dibbler

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I could propose that upon exiting an OW (so not in PZ nor in R areas: you hunt in enemy capitols and in PZ at your own risk) PvP (so no AI tag trick) battle a loading screen with two options:

A - enter OW. Just like now. Same invisibility timer or even dropping it granted the second option.

B - teleport to closest available OP or open port.

In B case ship will teleport to closest available port LOSING ALL CARGO.

This to prevent tricky uses and paying the action losing repairs, goods on board and so also doubloons simulating the fast retreat from area jettisoning all cargo.

This could help those already able to retreating from a battle (so already showing off being able to) saving the ship... And being able to log off due to RL, still paying the option avoiding infinite tags.

If captains want to preserve cargo/loot they have to fight they way off (thus I would say to eliminate invisibility at all).

Edited by Licinio Chiavari
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- attack a npc with a SOL

- exit battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

perfect !

-or-

- be attacked by your own alt, pvp

- end battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

even more perfect !

 

The other end of the stick has been proposed in the past though - exit to last visited port; if it is enemy port then no exit to port and only exit to OW.

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1 minute ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

- attack a npc with a SOL

- exit battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

perfect !

-or-

- be attacked by your own alt, pvp

- end battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

even more perfect !

The second scenario is valid, the first isn't. Lincinio stated the exact scenario for the screen to appear, which is an OW PvP instance excluding R-Zones and Patrol-Zones.

To be honest, the use of alts will always be problematic. An unexploitable gamemechanic with alt-accounts being a reality is basically impossible to achieve. The more important question in my opinion is where the line should be drawn. Which mechanical loopholes can be accepted, which cannot?

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Of course :)

Last port visited is my own best bet in the game design we have with the rancid alt exploits we must endure.

At least everyone can logoff and no one will self teleport ships to another place.

And yes, i like Licinio's "all cargo lost".

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6 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

- attack a npc with a SOL

- exit battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

perfect !

-or-

- be attacked by your own alt, pvp

- end battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

even more perfect !

 

The other end of the stick has been proposed in the past though - exit to last visited port; if it is enemy port then no exit to port and only exit to OW.

I underlined OW PVP battle to avoid AI trick.

Still we need to grant a player the chance to log off if they already survive a battle. So anyone will know that he needs 1h30m minimum online to save a ship.

I got tagged before going to bed around 3am... And chasing + 2 chase battle ended after 7am... And I didnt get tagged AGAIN only because a mate came to Battle spot and waited 1h the Battle end having upon exit chasers giving up.

Yordi too was chased around half map for like 4+ hours.

 

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3 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Of course :)

Last port visited is my own best bet in the game design we have with the rancid alt exploits we must endure.

At least everyone can logoff and no one will self teleport ships to another place.

And yes, i like Licinio's "all cargo lost".

I agree: even better.

Teleport to last port visited.

Thus giving a chance to hunters to guess where the fleeing ship retreated.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Doran said:

The cyclical irony of Naval Action

I told you there wasn't any whining about timers, but that cycle has started now too.

... Wait a minute! I recognize you! You're one of those RAKERS who are shaping this game to fit you at the expense of everyone else...

... How DARE you!?

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I see this come up all the time. That ppl have a right not to be forced in to long hours of fighting, when they go out to hunt. A demand to get safe away after a fight. Each time it get me to think why this demand and why ppl think the hunter have a right to better protection, then the hunted. Some of the issues I see is.

- Why should the limited be one fight? Ppl says because of real life. But what about the trader ore PvE player that have spend 1,5 trading ore taking a big AI fleet. Should they then be free of being forced in to a battle? Haven’t they too been in game long enough, that real life can make them run out of time ingame?

- What would be the concequences for the new and casual players, if we just eliminate any value of a defence fleet, because the hunters just teleport out?

- loosing all cargo in the hold, is that really an punishment. We talk about some repairs and Dbl. The real value is the ship ore am I wrong?

edit:

- If you should be allowed to teleport safe out. When should it be possible. When you can escape ore first after 1h 30 min? What if the battle only takes 15 min. Do you then still have the right to teleport to safty?

What I am trying to say is. I am fine if there a changes. Some I Like and some i proberbly won’t. But before we make a lot of changes I think I would be god if we have a set of rules that those changes should be tested against. 

Edited by staun
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53 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Of course :)

Last port visited is my own best bet in the game design we have with the rancid alt exploits we must endure.

At least everyone can logoff and no one will self teleport ships to another place.

And yes, i like Licinio's "all cargo lost".

If altsa re an issue (and i know they are) deal with them. Unless $$ from killing your own game by alt users and dlc buyers is too much to try making your game playable.

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The exit mechanics post battle need to be fixed.  We all agree with that.  Frankly, anyone who complains that he was forced to stay in battle past his bed time (or supper time) and was actually deep in enemy territory at the time, is guilty of very poor time management.  Lets not bend over backwards for someone who doesn't understand that there is a time commitment when entering dangerous waters.  Next they'll want a 'Pause" button.

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Just now, staun said:

In all fairness a pause button would be nice. Would give me time to go get a new beer.

Single player :) 

I wouldn't mind a NA "silent hunter type" sim... honestly.

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Just now, staun said:

In all fairness a pause button would be nice. Would give me time to go get a new beer.

I'm just about to finish off my foe and...…(pause)….Dammit!  Staun needs another beer!!

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19 minutes ago, staun said:

When you can escape ore first after 1h 30 min? What if the battle only takes 15 min. Do you then still have the right to teleport to safty?

If you're able to escape you are able to.

The point with today (and less an issue to me having quite plenty time in last months) RoE and possible infinite tagging it is you cant know nor manage in anyway your time: you can get entangled for hours and hours if you (rightfully) want to save your ship. That's coupled with some ships (and now some mods too) are almost unreplaciable.

Imagine a 5/5 with Naval Clock tagged on the way back home... And then hunted for HOURS: such ship has not only a very high ingame value I could equate to X playing hours dedicated to farm/trading/crafting: she could be simply not replaciable ever.

Losing such a ship in a fair fight could be acceptable. Losing her to a gank too.

Losing her because after successfully escaping for 4+ hours the player has to log off due to RL issues is inviting ragequit.

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1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

A - enter OW. Just like now. Same invisibility timer or even dropping it granted the second option.

B - teleport to closest available OP or open port.

In B case ship will teleport to closest available port LOSING ALL CARGO.

This to prevent tricky uses and paying the action losing repairs, goods on board and so also doubloons simulating the fast retreat from area jettisoning all cargo.

This could help those already able to retreating from a battle (so already showing off being able to) saving the ship... And being able to log off due to RL, still paying the option avoiding infinite tags.

If captains want to preserve cargo/loot they have to fight they way off (thus I would say to eliminate invisibility at all).

@admin This is probably the best solution / suggestion, that I have read so far. Might even take it one step further and make it so with option B you give up any fleet ships aswell. Also option B should never be available in enemy waters ( reinforcement zone ).

This not only needs to happen for the sake of fair and enjoyable gameplay but also to make NA more playable for people with limited time. Getting tagged 5 times in a row is BS and nothing but griefing in my opinion, since you don't even gain distance sailed in battle for the OW, which makes no sense at all.  It only ever happened to me a couple of times but those few times had me seriously question my further interest in the game more than anything else I have ever experienced in NA.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

If you're able to escape you are able to.

The point with today (and less an issue to me having quite plenty time in last months) RoE and possible infinite tagging it is you cant know nor manage in anyway your time: you can get entangled for hours and hours if you (rightfully) want to save your ship. That's coupled with some ships (and now some mods too) are almost unreplaciable.

Imagine a 5/5 with Naval Clock tagged on the way back home... And then hunted for HOURS: such ship has not only a very high ingame value I could equate to X playing hours dedicated to farm/trading/crafting: she could be simply not replaciable ever.

Losing such a ship in a fair fight could be acceptable. Losing her to a gank too.

Losing her because after successfully escaping for 4+ hours the player has to log off due to RL issues is inviting ragequit.

So you agree on losing the cargo isent any punishment, ore just a very small one?

But why after any battle if your argument is not to be forced too 4 hours if fighting. To you there are no different if the battle takes 10 min ore 4 hours?

What about the others issues? They just don’t Matter ore what?

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