A Question to Devs

[pietjenoob]

I have been playing this game for a while and i see a lot of ships even some which has a doubtfull life or because of player votes and a few other reasons (the German Wapen von Hamburg III and the Danish Christian 7) but no Dutch ships. But what I don't get is why the Dutch nation is not represented in this game in even though they had their height in the 17th century they had after that still a big influence even to this day in shipbuilding.

The Dutch have a lot of ships from the 1650 till 1820 and they had very special ability's which others nation had dedicated ships for like going through relatively shallow water and a decent sized cargo hold not even to mention that the Dutch were considered a world power and an opponent to be reckon with. not the fact that Dutch 2rd and 3rd were far more heavier armed than for example the Christian 7 same size and almost same ability.

 

So my question is why is their no Dutch ship so far in the game whilst we, Dutch, have a very rich naval history and interesting way of building ships and the ships it self?

 

thanks to Steelsandwich we have a lot of Dutch ships with plans.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7683-dutch-ship-collection-with-plans/

Edited July 12, 2016 by pietjenoob

[Roelandus]

I completely agree with everything mentioned by Pietje!

[Chromey]

I would like to see a shallow water trader like the Fluyt in game. Like a 4800 tonner or something like that.

[pietjenoob]

I would like to see a shallow water trader like the Fluyt in game. Like a 4800 tonner or something like that.

pretty what you say about the Fluyt it is original a Dutch ship but a lot of other country's copied in a way but never the original with the narrow aft deck. Narrow deck was to avoid taxes in certain places.

Edited July 12, 2016 by pietjenoob

[TommyShelby]

I've heard a rumour that there is atleast 1 dutch ship on it's way to NA!  

[TvanMerksem]

I fully agree to the request of a Dutch vessel in the game.

The coice of vessel is not easy as Dutch ships of the line in Napoleonic period were in almost every case inferior to their oponnents, but a nice frigate or specialized shallow draft vessel would be great.

[pietjenoob]

I've heard a rumour that there is atleast 1 dutch ship on it's way to NA!

rumours are rumours i have heard that de amsterdam (indiaman) was going to be in the game but never made it.

Edited July 12, 2016 by pietjenoob

[akd]

rumours are rumours i have heard that de amsterdam (indiaman) was going to be in the game but never made it.

There were no plans available for Amsterdam, so they used Chapman's plans for an indiaman instead.

[maturin]

 

 

 they had very special ability's which others nation had dedicated ships for like going through relatively shallow water and a decent sized cargo hold 

At a cost, of course.

 

The full-bodied hullforms necessary for shallow draft do you no favors when it comes to sailing performance. And on top of that, the Dutch never really adopted the classic frigate layout, and kept building single-gundeck warships with excessive freeboard that would hurt their weatherliness.

[pietjenoob]

At a cost, of course.

 

The full-bodied hullforms necessary for shallow draft do you no favors when it comes to sailing performance. And on top of that, the Dutch never really adopted the classic frigate layout, and kept building single-gundeck warships with excessive freeboard that would hurt their weatherliness.

Well i have read somewhere that the sailing performance was only worst with bad weather and they had in general at least 3 Amsterdam foot from the water were the gunports were in contrast to the british 2 foot (around 90 cm vs 60 cm respectively)

[GrapeShot]

Yup, it is a travesty that there are still no Dutch ships in the game.

[Lord Amplify of Key West]

just give me the zeven provincien and i am happy

[pietjenoob]

indeed that is something very strange like i said the Dutch have a rich naval history whilst as a nation they are ingame but nothing else unfortunaly.

[OlavDeng2]

just give me the zeven provincien and i am happy

sadly the Zeven Provincien is too old for the game :/

[Roelandus]

Spain have currently only one ship ingame and its naval importance in this time period is unquestionable.

If you want more Dutch ships, take a seat and wait.

 

Atleast you have 1, we are still waiting for our 1

[pietjenoob]

Spain have currently only one ship ingame and its naval importance in this time period is unquestionable.

If you want more Dutch ships, take a seat and wait.

Well the Dutch were also very important for a very long time and you are complaining that spain doesn't have enough. Well mate the Dutch has nothing nopes nada so stop complaining please. and the Naval importance of the Dutch had/has more and impact then everybody thinks and their importance is even more unquestionable

[Thonys]

Well the Dutch were also very important for a very long time and you are complaining that spain doesn't have enough. Well mate the Dutch has nothing nopes nada so stop complaining please. and the Naval importance of the Dutch had/has more and impact then everybody thinks and their importance is even more unquestionable

true true..

 

but i feel sick all the time on those foreign build ships (seasick)

 

and i also want to know, whats the dev point of view on this matter..... do they ad a docter on the ships ? in the mean time ?

because it is getting worse and worse-er day by day

 

hope to hear there answer soon... (my goodness i used soon tm )

 

o7

[nshivers]

its well over dew  we have Russian ships and soon to be a German ship the swedes have a ship and there relay small the pirates who arent even a nation have a ship come on folks git to it also theirs was a vote and a dutch ship did get picked 

[kingslynn93]

Spain have currently only one ship ingame and its naval importance in this time period is unquestionable.

If you want more Dutch ships, take a seat and wait.

 

 

The Spanish have a ship. The Dutch have none. They were a very prominent Naval figure, and I would dare say even more important than the Spanish. So, we have taken our ticket and want to be first in line. 

[Malachi]

Well i have read somewhere that the sailing performance was only worst with bad weather and they had in general at least 3 Amsterdam foot from the water were the gunports were in contrast to the british 2 foot (around 90 cm vs 60 cm respectively)

 

 

That has been the real art in 18th/19th century naval design, a ship that behaves well in light airs and heavy seas which very few shipwrights mastered. And british frigates usually had their gunports 7 to 8 feet above the water, british SoLs a bit less (5 to 6 feet).

 

The Dutch have a lot of ships from the 1650 till 1820 and they had very special ability's which others nation had dedicated ships for like going through relatively shallow water and a decent sized cargo hold not even to mention that the Dutch were considered a world power and an opponent to be reckon with.

 

 

Dutch shipbuilding in the 18th century was considered mediocre by contemporaries...at best (see Blaise Ollivier´s REMARKS ON THE NAVIES OF THE ENGLISH AND THE DUTCH). The British didn´t quite like their dutch prizes, either.

 

If you want excellent designs with relatively shallow draughts...Sweden and to a somwhat lesser extent Denmark got those.

 

 

That being said, I´d really like to see a couple of dutch ships in the game, too.

[Thonys]

That has been the real art in 18th/19th century naval design, a ship that behaves well in light airs and heavy seas which very few shipwrights mastered. And british frigates usually had their gunports 7 to 8 feet above the water, british SoLs a bit less (5 to 6 feet).

 

 

Dutch shipbuilding in the 18th century was considered mediocre by contemporaries...at best (see Blaise Ollivier´s REMARKS ON THE NAVIES OF THE ENGLISH AND THE DUTCH). The British didn´t quite like their dutch prizes, either.

 

If you want excellent designs with relatively shallow draughts...Sweden and to a somwhat lesser extent Denmark got those.

 

 

That being said, I´d really like to see a couple of dutch ships in the game, too.

 

do you really want to know why we need dutch ships?

 

for more reasons, but one of them is...

for example and i can give you even more :The dutch wood was conserved in the water (against rotting )under the flood line

the English did not do that this way ..What in the end gave them a huge repair bill 

there was a reason we had expensive ships for sale

they lasted longer 

you even have a dutch ship wreck under the English coast in rather good condition after many hundreds of years

tell me where i can find a English wreck in that condition 

 

even the flying Dutchmen  still sails over the ocean in rather the same condition as it was hundreds of years ago

 

you know there was a advisor to your king :he told the king that the dutch navy was bigger  as the French and English fleet together 

it scared the shictk out of them.. and for a good reason to

 

and the enlish did not like our prices?

well if they where such good ship builders they would be content with their British build ship (builders prices)and had no intention to buy from the dutch 

so there where many reasons to have a dutch ship

you may have payed more, but you would get a fine ship what lasted longer and had no huge repair bill for many years to come

 

besides that, they where beautiful...

 

for me myself ,i get seasick on those foreign ships 

and if there will be be no dutch ships in 4 months 

i have to retire early for health consideration because of seasickness (i see it happen ((thats what they told me)) with many dutch captains already)

 

 

quote:Dutch shipbuilding in the 18th century was considered mediocre by contemporaries...at best (see Blaise Ollivier´s REMARKS ON THE NAVIES OF THE ENGLISH AND THE DUTCH). The British didn´t quite like their dutch prizes, either.

well of cause not they where nationalist by nature....

 

quote:If you want excellent designs with relatively shallow draughts...Sweden and to a somwhat lesser extent Denmark got those.

yes and they where called row boats,,,  

o7

Edited July 13, 2016 by Thonys

[OlavDeng2]

That has been the real art in 18th/19th century naval design, a ship that behaves well in light airs and heavy seas which very few shipwrights mastered. And british frigates usually had their gunports 7 to 8 feet above the water, british SoLs a bit less (5 to 6 feet).

 

 

Dutch shipbuilding in the 18th century was considered mediocre by contemporaries...at best (see Blaise Ollivier´s REMARKS ON THE NAVIES OF THE ENGLISH AND THE DUTCH). The British didn´t quite like their dutch prizes, either.

 

If you want excellent designs with relatively shallow draughts...Sweden and to a somwhat lesser extent Denmark got those.

 

 

That being said, I´d really like to see a couple of dutch ships in the game, too.

I might be wrong, but IIRC the swedes and danish had relatively deep draughts compared to the dutch still.

[Nash]

give me some dutch 3rd ships, I will sail her all day everyday!!!

[Idle Champion]

The swedes had two separate ship design philosophies between the Baltic ships (slightly shallow in the draft, but ocean-going) and the Archipelago Fleet (18th and 19th century holdouts of galleass and xebec-type designs, extremely shallow in the draft).

 

Still, there are plenty of interesting Dutch ships that could come into the game. The 1665 De Zeven Provincien is too old, but the 1694 one is still an impressive example of an old-fashioned three-decker if plans can be tracked down. The Wreker-class ships like Chattam and Admiral de Ruyter would make a splash in game - two-decker 80-gun ships of the line with a main deck of Dutch 36-pounders (42-pounders equivalent) and an upper deck of 30-pounders (32-pounder equivalent). Not the heaviest broadside, but solid penetrating power. Admiral de Ruyter did fairly well in the poll that doesn't yet have an announced wild card. The Dutch didn't quite embrace the bigger open-ocean frigates, but they were big fans of corvettes and man-of-war brigs.

[Malachi]

I might be wrong, but IIRC the swedes and danish had relatively deep draughts compared to the dutch still.

 

 

 

Hm, I just had a look at two plans of dutch frigates, one unnamed of ca. 1750/60 with a length of 121 (Amsterdam?) feet, and the Heldin of 1796 with length of 130 feet. The former had a draught aft of 14' 5'', the latter 18'.

 

For comparison, Chapman´s Bellona-class (156') had a draught of 17' 6'', the Enigheten and af Trolle (121') 14' 1''.

 

A typical danish frigate of the second half of the 18th century with a length of 125' had a draught of 14' 10''.

 

do you really want to know why we need dutch ships?

 

for more reasons, but one of them is...

for example and i can give you even more :The dutch wood was conserved in the water (against rotting )under the flood line

the English did not do that this way ..What in the end gave them a huge repair bill 

there was a reason we had expensive ships for sale

they lasted longer 

you even have a dutch ship wreck under the English coast in rather good condition after many hundreds of years

tell me where i can find a English wreck in that condition 

 

even the flying Dutchmen  still sails over the ocean in rather the same condition as it was hundreds of years ago

 

you know there was a advisor to your king :he told the king that the dutch navy was bigger  as the French and English fleet together 

it scared the shictk out of them.. and for a good reason to

 

and the enlish did not like our prices?

well if they where such good ship builders they would be content with their British build ship (builders prices)and had no intention to buy from the dutch 

so there where many reasons to have a dutch ship

you may have payed more, but you would get a fine ship what lasted longer and had no huge repair bill for many years to come

 

besides that, they where beautiful...

 

for me myself ,i get seasick on those foreign ships 

and if there will be be no dutch ships in 4 months 

i have to retire early for health consideration because of seasickness (i see it happen ((thats what they told me)) with many dutch captains already)

 

 

quote:Dutch shipbuilding in the 18th century was considered mediocre by contemporaries...at best (see Blaise Ollivier´s REMARKS ON THE NAVIES OF THE ENGLISH AND THE DUTCH). The British didn´t quite like their dutch prizes, either.

well of cause not they where nationalist by nature....

 

quote:If you want excellent designs with relatively shallow draughts...Sweden and to a somwhat lesser extent Denmark got those.

yes and they where called row boats,,,  

o7

 

/nonsense

 

well of cause not they where nationalist by nature....

 

 

Jesus. The british built a lot of ships based on french lines and it didn´t hurt their national pride one bit. Did they copy a single dutch design in the 18th century? No.

 

and the enlish did not like our prices?

well if they where such good ship builders they would be content with their British build ship (builders prices)and had no intention to buy from the dutch 

so there where many reasons to have a dutch ship

you may have payed more, but you would get a fine ship what lasted longer and had no huge repair bill for many years to come

 

 

 

Now this is a gem. Prizes, not prices.

 

And the british, just like the french and swedes, bought dutch ships and hired dutch shipwrights till the last quarter of the 17th century because they could produce supposedly better ships. Just as the dutch admiralities hired foreign shipwrights from the start of the 18th century onwards when they thought that they were better than their own.