June content patch expected date

[Ledinis]

The idea of having capturable AI is wonderful because it gives people things to do. just dont let people cap 4th rates and up.

People can capture them now also as far as i remember just get money. So no it doesn't give extra stuff to do it just provides an endless supply of ships crippling the economy, crafting and removing any sense of war attrition. I would understand it if was only for open world AI fleets (not AI from missions), that would be assembled by players donating ships to a city to form protective fleets and the fleets filling actual tasks like protecting friendly waters and engaging enemy forces. But instead we get an endless swarm of brain dead AI that just sails in a straight line doing nothing, spawning back as soon as the last one is captured/killed.

 

So yeah lets recap:

It harms the economy and crating: Ship production already out scales possible ship consumption at anything below line ships. Its so over-saturated that even Trincs and Essex sell bellow what you could get for raw materials. Adding an endless supply of the ships as a free alternative wont help the matter much.

It promotes suicidal game play void of any realistic tactics or consequences, this can be attested by anyone who played when AI was free for capture. (The enemy has a 1st rate ? Ok people i want all 25 of you to rush the ship ramming and exploding yourself next to it, we will get this fleet back up in 5 mins he will need a week to craft it)

Makes war attrition nonexistent. Why on earth would i bother going out of port to engage that enemy frigate ganking squad, knowing that in the time it will take me to pursue, engage and sink them they will have 5x the ships captured from an endless stream of brain dead AI. 

 

The only half reason i can see good in this is that it will make some people that are terrified of loosing a durability finally participate in pvp, while making an equal part loose motivation in it. So yeah the cutter ramming a line ship patch will finally loose its leader position as the worst patch to date of the game once they return this. Im half inclined to organize a lynch mob to get some negative steam reviews going after they launch this, since im starting to get a distinct feeling developers are shifting from the "we are trying to make a game we ourselves would like" to "omg that guy that didnt get a free Santisima 2 hours in the game gave us a bad review on steam, we must give him 10 Santisimas and implement a soothing AI voice that would repeat "your the best captain in the world" every 2 mins" -.-      

[Anne Wildcat]

I really don't think capturing ships really hurts the Econ.

What would you rather have, a 5 dur gold frigate or a 1 dur maybe fine frigate?

Players that use upgrades will be too afraid to lose those upgrades on 1 dur ships.

[Ledinis]

I really don't think capturing ships really hurts the Econ.

What would you rather have, a 5 dur gold frigate or a 1 dur maybe fine frigate?

Players that use upgrades will be too afraid to lose those upgrades on 1 dur ships.

I think a better comparison would be a Connie or an Inger since a frig atm costs about the same as one mid grade note.

But to answer your question, if you played back in spring, back when AI was capturable and 90% of people sailed in hordes of captured 3rds suicide rushing giving 0 f...s i doubt you would need to ask the question what will people choose in most cases.

[Mrdoomed]

People can capture them now also as far as i remember just get money. So no it doesn't give extra stuff to do it just provides an endless supply of ships crippling the economy, crafting and removing any sense of war attrition. I would understand it if was only for open world AI fleets (not AI from missions), that would be assembled by players donating ships to a city to form protective fleets and the fleets filling actual tasks like protecting friendly waters and engaging enemy forces. But instead we get an endless swarm of brain dead AI that just sails in a straight line doing nothing, spawning back as soon as the last one is captured/killed.

So yeah lets recap:

It harms the economy and crating: Ship production already out scales possible ship consumption at anything below line ships. Its so over-saturated that even Trincs and Essex sell bellow what you could get for raw materials. Adding an endless supply of the ships as a free alternative wont help the matter much.

It promotes suicidal game play void of any realistic tactics or consequences, this can be attested by anyone who played when AI was free for capture. (The enemy has a 1st rate ? Ok people i want all 25 of you to rush the ship ramming and exploding yourself next to it, we will get this fleet back up in 5 mins he will need a week to craft it)

Makes war attrition nonexistent. Why on earth would i bother going out of port to engage that enemy frigate ganking squad, knowing that in the time it will take me to pursue, engage and sink them they will have 5x the ships captured from an endless stream of brain dead AI.

The only half reason i can see good in this is that it will make some people that are terrified of loosing a durability finally participate in pvp, while making an equal part loose motivation in it. So yeah the cutter ramming a line ship patch will finally loose its leader position as the worst patch to date of the game once they return this. Im half inclined to organize a lynch mob to get some negative steam reviews going after they launch this, since im starting to get a distinct feeling developers are shifting from the "we are trying to make a game we ourselves would like" to "omg that guy that didnt get a free Santisima 2 hours in the game gave us a bad review on steam, we must give him 10 Santisimas and implement a soothing AI voice that would repeat "your the best captain in the world" every 2 mins" -.-

I agree on all but the last point , about people not being terrified to lose thier free ship. Ill bet if anything it will make them even more scared not that thier fake ship has 1 dura. Those people just have a cowards mentality or something.

Back when they could cap and keep ships before they still ran all the time and name called you the whole time

[Ledinis]

I agree on all but the last point , about people not being terrified to lose thier free ship. Ill bet if anything it will make them even more scared not that thier fake ship has 1 dura. Those people just have a cowards mentality or something.

Back when they could cap and keep ships before they still ran all the time and name called you the whole time

Depends on the situation i guess, im mainly referencing the Port battles and screening fleets i participated in back when ships were capturable. Yes back then 1st rates weren't so abundant as now, but when you hear a fleet leader telling 25 3rd rates to suicide ram a single 1st rate since that is a loss for the enemy and a small annoyance for you, you know the mechanic is fucked up. 

[Æthlstan]

If they made Fleet AI dependant on ship captures and gave them a role,

IE defending waters from enemy AI fleets, that would be pretty awesome. It would give you a reason to go out and capture AI (either on the OW or in missions), the admiralty would pay you decent money for it, and it would be much more historically correct than letting the player keep the ship

 

Perhaps, if Lord Protectors are a thing, one of the perks of it would be the ability to direct NPC assault and defense fleets made up of ships sold to the admiralty at that port. 

 

-AI assault fleets attack players as well as NPCs, and can be directed to specific locations by someone in the new war and peace mechanics

 

-AI Defense fleets can be ordered to patrol a route, or sortie out of their port and attack any enemy ships within X radius, etc. Defense fleets will engage any NPCs or PCs within the scope of their operations.

 

This might be going out on a limb here, but captured player ships could retain their characteristics if sold to the admiralty, therefore, if it is desired to have a fast pursuit fleet, fir ships with speed upgrades can be grouped into a fleet to engage enemy trader AIs, which, if unprotected and successfully destroyed, has a negative effect on that nations economy. Let me add that this kind of stuff could also be done by players. A nation's players would have a reason to defend their traders, attacking nations would have a reason to send their players out to interfere in their defense efforts, etc etc etc

 

Now, yall might think that sounds like WAY too much PvE, or forced PvE, or what have you, but I see it as content. I see it as more realistic, as major players in the war and peace system can direct their nation's assets as similar figures did historically

 

Let me know if this sounds interesting and whether or not we should expand upon it in a separate post, or if it belongs in a different thread

Edited June 28, 2016 by Æthlstan

[cheatos503]

I really don't think capturing ships really hurts the Econ.

What would you rather have, a 5 dur gold frigate or a 1 dur maybe fine frigate?

Players that use upgrades will be too afraid to lose those upgrades on 1 dur ships.

capping ships used to mean the role of the crafter was for the most part not important. everybody used to cap 3rd rates, from there you'd take on fleets with said third rates and if you lost one it was no big deal, 15 mins later you had that ship again. No cost aside from time spent. Since this was around for a long time, but with a different econ model nobody paid the practice much mind, and it was the norm, not the exception to see all ports maxed out on resources (aside from gold because back then there was only one type of crafting note). Now with resources have an actual value, this is due to 2 things:

 

1. the current hybridization of player derived and NPC derived resource base. This gives value, not just worth, to our resources by making them cost us in terms of labor hours which we attribute to another currency that we trade. When that happens coupled with the fact that the overall supply shrinks you now have the conditions for healthier economy

 

2. The inability to cap combat ships means you have to get them somewhere, now the ship builder who invested the time and effort to lvl up. Now the lower class boats have full durs on them which invites people to want to invest in having them crafted.

 

removing the second will collapse the first unless the limits on size of ships is kept small so it helps new players (on which i can agree) but when you start getting above 5th rates i can see the game giving out its last gasp and croaking.

 

Your assumption that people wont fit a 1 dura ship is false, most gold mods cost way less in hours and resources than big ships with 3 or less duras on them. from a cost savings perspective you could lose 5 sets of gold mods (player made) before you run into the cost line of a fully setup bellona and the infrastructure (shipyards, mat stocks) it takes to make them with all gold mods. I have done it in the past and if you pull out as calculator, you'd see that it would make sense as well.

[hellshammy]

It seems some of you are like horses and just see 2 feet in front of ya so lets explain a bit.

All of you that are crying about 1 dura suicide ships and fleets coming back-

 

We would like to describe the forthcoming change to the crew system in Naval Action

 

Crew will have to be hired for certain price for the sailor

Crew will be lost if you sink or blow up

Crew will become persistent between battles

Players will be provided with 40 free sailors at the start of the game which cannot be lost (to support new players), this number could go up with rank up to a certain limit

Crew will be available for hire in all ports that you can enter

Crew will have to be assigned to ships that you capture to be able to use them

 

Ships that you capture will have to have crew to be transported back to port

There will be only two options for the ship you capture:

• Add to fleet (assigning crew)
• Sink

Ships will have minimum possible crew - you won't be able to add a ship to fleet or transfer yourself to you if your crew is lower than that ship minimum for sailing.

 

Please,consider all the upcoming changes before you start crying about fleets,capping,economy or wth

[Æthlstan]

Welll since it says "Maintenance" I guess the update isnt today?
 

[Jesters-Ink]

I guess if it is still down at 10am, we are getting the new content.

[delaine]

i just logged in to it no content yet qq

[Jesters-Ink]

Thx delaine, a mate has just confirmed your findings too, so I guess it won't be today.

 

FD Frontier Developments uses the same format, Tuesday is usually the "aim for day" but that is classed as the absolute soonest it will be ready.

The normal is for it to fall in "that week" incorporating the date given, not guaranteed on that date.

 

But looking forward to it all the same.

[Snoggy]

"July" Content patch?

[Eishen]

"July" Content patch?

 

June last until day 30 and 28 was an intended date, lets not be histeric princessess

[Kanay]

About AI captures and economy being hurt, Admin said the captured ships will be worse than crafted ones, i imagine this time we won't be able to find some Mastercraft quality AI ships with speed gold trim and nice strong wood in the open world like it was possible to find once in a while before.

 

Maybe do not allow any kind of upgrade to be mouted on AI capped ships, not even a single temporary or permanent one ( full fleet of capped small AI 5th rate vessels mounted with fire-ship fittings making an incursion in front of an enemy capital for some giant fireworks anyone ? ) , just lock the possibility for upgrades on capped AI ships.

 

Also changing the negative bonuses the players crafted Basic ships with gray built in upgrades get, crew space removing some crew instead of adding some, speed trim giving a speed malus instead of boost etc , changing this to not get negative bonuses on basic crafted ships anymore and make all AI capped ships only basic ones keeping those current same malus.

 

Players crafted basic ships not getting malus anymore in basic quality, players crafted ones only, not the NPC ships sold in shops, those should keep the malus for the economy balance but have the upgrade slots still possible unlike the capped AI ships not allowing any upgrade addition on the top of no upgrades possible on them.

 

It will still be more interesting to buy a basic player crafted ship on the market allowing to use a couple of upgrades and not getting negative malus than sail a throw out capped ship not allowing any kind of basic quality upgrade and having malus for speed, strength, planking crew space etc.

[Jesters-Ink]

I think up to and including purple was fine, after all, we all strive for that perfect ship, I know I did.

It was historic to cap, only those who did not strike soon enough were sank, plus I think its one of the most fun parts of the game.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Jesters-Ink

[cheatos503]

About AI captures and economy being hurt Admin said the captured ships will be worse than crafted ones, i imagine this time we won't be able to find some Mastercraft quality AI ships with speed gold trim and nice strong wood in the open world like it was possible to find once in a while before.

 

Maybe do not allow any kind of upgrade to be mouted on AI capped ships, not even a single temporary or permanent one ( full fleet of capped small AI 5th rate vessels mounted with fire-ship fittings making an incursion in front of an enemy capital for some giant fireworks anyone ? ) , just lock the possibility for upgrades on capped AI ships.

 

Also changing the negative bonuses the players crafted Basic ships with gray built in upgrades get, crew space removing some crew instead of adding some, speed trim giving a speed malus instead of boost etc , changing this to not get negative bonuses on basic crafted ships anymore and make all AI sailing only basic ships keeping those current same malus.

 

Players crafted basic ships not getting malus anymore in basic quality, players crafted ones only, not the NPC ships sold in shops, those should keep the malus for the economy balance but have the upgrade slots still possible unlike the capped AI ships not allowing any upgrade addition on the top of no upgrades possible on them.

 

It will still be more interesting to buy a basic player crafted ship on the market allowing to use a couple of upgrades and not getting negative malus than sail a throw out capped ship not allowing any kind of basic quality upgrade and having malus for speed, strength, planking crew space etc.

this could be acceptable provided they are actually worse than an off the shelf AI crafted one, and if this is the case then the impact on the econ might not be as badly felt as i anticipate.

can you post the link for this?

[Kanay]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14681-hotfix-984-patch-notes/page-2#entry272429

 

captured ships won't be as good 

He does not say much more than this sadly, but my propositions will make it fair i think , even if in OW or in combat the ships will have different levels or quality and wood like now to not make fighting AI a very easy mode , but once captured all ships will be basic with no upgrade slots and negative bonus for built in trims on the top of it.

 

I think up to and including purple was fine, after all, we all strive for that perfect ship, I know I did.

It was historic to cap, only those who did not strike soon enough were sank, plus I think its one of the most fun parts of the game.

Ai ships once capped really need to be a last resort solution to use, a player crafted ship, even in basic quality should in all cases be superior to a capped AI ship and not only by the dura's it offers.

[Peter Fouche]

People can capture them now also as far as i remember just get money. So no it doesn't give extra stuff to do it just provides an endless supply of ships crippling the economy, crafting and removing any sense of war attrition. I would understand it if was only for open world AI fleets (not AI from missions), that would be assembled by players donating ships to a city to form protective fleets and the fleets filling actual tasks like protecting friendly waters and engaging enemy forces. But instead we get an endless swarm of brain dead AI that just sails in a straight line doing nothing, spawning back as soon as the last one is captured/killed.

 

So yeah lets recap:

It harms the economy and crating: Ship production already out scales possible ship consumption at anything below line ships. Its so over-saturated that even Trincs and Essex sell bellow what you could get for raw materials. Adding an endless supply of the ships as a free alternative wont help the matter much.

It promotes suicidal game play void of any realistic tactics or consequences, this can be attested by anyone who played when AI was free for capture. (The enemy has a 1st rate ? Ok people i want all 25 of you to rush the ship ramming and exploding yourself next to it, we will get this fleet back up in 5 mins he will need a week to craft it)

Makes war attrition nonexistent. Why on earth would i bother going out of port to engage that enemy frigate ganking squad, knowing that in the time it will take me to pursue, engage and sink them they will have 5x the ships captured from an endless stream of brain dead AI. 

 

The only half reason i can see good in this is that it will make some people that are terrified of loosing a durability finally participate in pvp, while making an equal part loose motivation in it. So yeah the cutter ramming a line ship patch will finally loose its leader position as the worst patch to date of the game once they return this. Im half inclined to organize a lynch mob to get some negative steam reviews going after they launch this, since im starting to get a distinct feeling developers are shifting from the "we are trying to make a game we ourselves would like" to "omg that guy that didnt get a free Santisima 2 hours in the game gave us a bad review on steam, we must give him 10 Santisimas and implement a soothing AI voice that would repeat "your the best captain in the world" every 2 mins" -.-      

 

 

If they made Fleet AI dependant on ship captures and gave them a role,

IE defending waters from enemy AI fleets, that would be pretty awesome. It would give you a reason to go out and capture AI (either on the OW or in missions), the admiralty would pay you decent money for it, and it would be much more historically correct than letting the player keep the ship

 

Perhaps, if Lord Protectors are a thing, one of the perks of it would be the ability to direct NPC assault and defense fleets made up of ships sold to the admiralty at that port. 

 

-AI assault fleets attack players as well as NPCs, and can be directed to specific locations by someone in the new war and peace mechanics

 

-AI Defense fleets can be ordered to patrol a route, or sortie out of their port and attack any enemy ships within X radius, etc. Defense fleets will engage any NPCs or PCs within the scope of their operations.

 

This might be going out on a limb here, but captured player ships could retain their characteristics if sold to the admiralty, therefore, if it is desired to have a fast pursuit fleet, fir ships with speed upgrades can be grouped into a fleet to engage enemy trader AIs, which, if unprotected and successfully destroyed, has a negative effect on that nations economy. Let me add that this kind of stuff could also be done by players. A nation's players would have a reason to defend their traders, attacking nations would have a reason to send their players out to interfere in their defense efforts, etc etc etc

 

Now, yall might think that sounds like WAY too much PvE, or forced PvE, or what have you, but I see it as content. I see it as more realistic, as major players in the war and peace system can direct their nation's assets as similar figures did historically

 

Let me know if this sounds interesting and whether or not we should expand upon it in a separate post, or if it belongs in a different thread

 

 

capping ships used to mean the role of the crafter was for the most part not important. everybody used to cap 3rd rates, from there you'd take on fleets with said third rates and if you lost one it was no big deal, 15 mins later you had that ship again. No cost aside from time spent. Since this was around for a long time, but with a different econ model nobody paid the practice much mind, and it was the norm, not the exception to see all ports maxed out on resources (aside from gold because back then there was only one type of crafting note). Now with resources have an actual value, this is due to 2 things:

 

1. the current hybridization of player derived and NPC derived resource base. This gives value, not just worth, to our resources by making them cost us in terms of labor hours which we attribute to another currency that we trade. When that happens coupled with the fact that the overall supply shrinks you now have the conditions for healthier economy

 

2. The inability to cap combat ships means you have to get them somewhere, now the ship builder who invested the time and effort to lvl up. Now the lower class boats have full durs on them which invites people to want to invest in having them crafted.

 

removing the second will collapse the first unless the limits on size of ships is kept small so it helps new players (on which i can agree) but when you start getting above 5th rates i can see the game giving out its last gasp and croaking.

 

Your assumption that people wont fit a 1 dura ship is false, most gold mods cost way less in hours and resources than big ships with 3 or less duras on them. from a cost savings perspective you could lose 5 sets of gold mods (player made) before you run into the cost line of a fully setup bellona and the infrastructure (shipyards, mat stocks) it takes to make them with all gold mods. I have done it in the past and if you pull out as calculator, you'd see that it would make sense as well.

 

 

It seems some of you are like horses and just see 2 feet in front of ya so lets explain a bit.

All of you that are crying about 1 dura suicide ships and fleets coming back-

 

We would like to describe the forthcoming change to the crew system in Naval Action

 

Crew will have to be hired for certain price for the sailor

Crew will be lost if you sink or blow up

Crew will become persistent between battles

Players will be provided with 40 free sailors at the start of the game which cannot be lost (to support new players), this number could go up with rank up to a certain limit

Crew will be available for hire in all ports that you can enter

Crew will have to be assigned to ships that you capture to be able to use them

 

Ships that you capture will have to have crew to be transported back to port

There will be only two options for the ship you capture:

• Add to fleet (assigning crew)
• Sink

Ships will have minimum possible crew - you won't be able to add a ship to fleet or transfer yourself to you if your crew is lower than that ship minimum for sailing.

 

Please,consider all the upcoming changes before you start crying about fleets,capping,economy or wth

 

 

About AI captures and economy being hurt Admin said the captured ships will be worse than crafted ones, i imagine this time we won't be able to find some Mastercraft quality AI ships with speed gold trim and nice strong wood in the open world like it was possible to find once in a while before.

 

Maybe do not allow any kind of upgrade to be mouted on AI capped ships, not even a single temporary or permanent one ( full fleet of capped small AI 5th rate vessels mounted with fire-ship fittings making an incursion in front of an enemy capital for some giant fireworks anyone ? ) , just lock the possibility for upgrades on capped AI ships.

 

Also changing the negative bonuses the players crafted Basic ships with gray built in upgrades get, crew space removing some crew instead of adding some, speed trim giving a speed malus instead of boost etc , changing this to not get negative bonuses on basic crafted ships anymore and make all AI sailing only basic ships keeping those current same malus.

 

Players crafted basic ships not getting malus anymore in basic quality, players crafted ones only, not the NPC ships sold in shops, those should keep the malus for the economy balance but have the upgrade slots still possible unlike the capped AI ships not allowing any upgrade addition on the top of no upgrades possible on them.

 

It will still be more interesting to buy a basic player crafted ship on the market allowing to use a couple of upgrades and not getting negative malus than sail a throw out capped ship not allowing any kind of basic quality upgrade and having malus for speed, strength, planking crew space etc.

 

Gentlemen lets take this discussion to another thread. I have opened a thread here: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14858-ai-pvp-and-pve-influencing-economy/

[Knallkorp]

If they made Fleet AI dependant on ship captures and gave them a role,

IE defending waters from enemy AI fleets, that would be pretty awesome. It would give you a reason to go out and capture AI (either on the OW or in missions), the admiralty would pay you decent money for it, and it would be much more historically correct than letting the player keep the ship

Perhaps, if Lord Protectors are a thing, one of the perks of it would be the ability to direct NPC assault and defense fleets made up of ships sold to the admiralty at that port.

-AI assault fleets attack players as well as NPCs, and can be directed to specific locations by someone in the new war and peace mechanics

-AI Defense fleets can be ordered to patrol a route, or sortie out of their port and attack any enemy ships within X radius, etc. Defense fleets will engage any NPCs or PCs within the scope of their operations.

This might be going out on a limb here, but captured player ships could retain their characteristics if sold to the admiralty, therefore, if it is desired to have a fast pursuit fleet, fir ships with speed upgrades can be grouped into a fleet to engage enemy trader AIs, which, if unprotected and successfully destroyed, has a negative effect on that nations economy. Let me add that this kind of stuff could also be done by players. A nation's players would have a reason to defend their traders, attacking nations would have a reason to send their players out to interfere in their defense efforts, etc etc etc

Now, yall might think that sounds like WAY too much PvE, or forced PvE, or what have you, but I see it as content. I see it as more realistic, as major players in the war and peace system can direct their nation's assets as similar figures did historically

Let me know if this sounds interesting and whether or not we should expand upon it in a separate post, or if it belongs in a different thread

Do a suggestion post this is awesome and i also have some point to add in this. Edited June 28, 2016 by Knallkorp

[Ned Loe]

[Jesters-Ink]

Ai ships once capped really need to be a last resort solution to use, a player crafted ship, even in basic quality should in all cases be superior to a capped AI ship and not only by the dura's it offers.

 

If they are not gold have at least 4 slots then they already are a last resort.

 

And lets face it, they are only letting us cap up to 5th or 4th rates, so if you are high or maxed rank, you aint not gonna be sailing a cap ship anyway. I like to cap and I like to keep and sell or bust it up for parts, having no choice is . . . . not cricket.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Jesters-Ink

[Kanay]

In a even battles between same class crafted ships they are a last resort yeah, if they are used with some numbers advantages they won't be bad at all and will be able cause lot of damages like they used to do before when captures were possible, it's throw out ships, cost nothing to get and are still a big advantage, especially with fire-ship fitting upgrades allowing for great fireworks .

 

Ai capped ships should really be inferior in terms of quality compared to anything else in game and not allow upgrades to avoid giant fireworks fleets.

 

As for 5th or 4th ranks myself passed rear admiral few days ago and i prefer to sail frigates than bigger ships for the versatility they offer, as long as you have free throw out ships and able to align enough players for a battle they will still be a very good option to use at no costs.

[Jesters-Ink]

And an option open to all, so about as even as you can get wouldn't you say?

[Kanay]

Because outside PB's and some very rare occurrences the rest is only consisting in largely uneven battles in this game ...