Lord Vicious Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1) Current armor system is too high need to be tuned down by a good 50% , battle last 4 ever, first rates cant even dmg other firsts at 250mt+ 2) Masts now demasting is almost impossible for same problems of point 1 and need ame tweak. 3) Port shifts too easly, imho block a port for 48h 72h? before it can be conquered again can be a good solution 4) Port mechanics, now firstrates are useless they can be used only on a small amount of ports and sinking each other with current armor is pointless 5) pirate mechanics i have a solution for point 4 and 5. Make ports include capital and sw be based on BR. capital 20k br all other ports 15k If you limit pirates to only 3rds for example, they will be able to bring more guys in 3rds vs nations with firstrates and "escort" balancing both the game and the pirate historical accuracy. In the sense that while nation can bring some firsts+escorts, pirates can bring 25 3rd balancing the fight even if pirates are limited to 3rd rate only. This system will not only adress the pirate mechanics, but also will make first rate useful again and not bind to only certain ports Will add to the game also more variety and strategy since ppl will try to find best combination of ships to bring in a battle, few first? a mix? mono 3rd? etc leaving to devs ability to tweak + - br when players will discover the "imba" combination. This tweaks +future diplomacy and maybe port buildings/evolution linked to clans ability to build ships will make the game perfect ps: warehouse need logs, who have taken stuff out and who put in, as well a clan tax. Also gold retrieve-and deposit should be available everywhere, is a great tool for collecting gold for flags 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayon Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 4) Port mechanics, now firstrates are useless they can be used only on a small amount of ports and sinking each other with current armor is pointless 5) pirate mechanics i have a solution for point 4 and 5. Make ports include capital and sw be based on BR. capital 20k br all other ports 15k If you limit pirates to only 3rds for example, they will be able to bring more guys in 3rds vs nations with firstrates and "escort" balancing both the game and the pirate historical accuracy. In the sense that while nation can bring some firsts+escorts, pirates can bring 25 3rd balancing the fight even if pirates are limited to 3rd rate only. This system will not only adress the pirate mechanics, but also will make first rate useful again and not bind to only certain ports Will add to the game also more variety and strategy since ppl will try to find best combination of ships to bring in a battle, few first? a mix? mono 3rd? etc leaving to devs ability to tweak + - br when players will discover the "imba" combination. This tweaks +future diplomacy and maybe port buildings/evolution linked to clans ability to build ships will make the game perfect ps: warehouse need logs, who have taken stuff out and who put in, as well a clan tax. Also gold retrieve-and deposit should be available everywhere, is a great tool for collecting gold for flags A couple of questions for you. First question, what does SW mean, i underlined and emboldened it for you. Also I'm not sure where your coming from with limiting the pirates to 3rds? Devs have said before that the Pirates will be treated jus like any other nation in terms of gameplay. I'd also like to point out, not many people outside of the clan SORRY has has an opportunity to use 1sts in battle with other players. In fact, you may be the leader of the only clan that has had the privilege, and perhaps abused it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragger Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1) Current armor system is too high need to be tuned down by a good 50% , battle last 4 ever, first rates cant even dmg other firsts at 250mt+ 2) Masts now demasting is almost impossible for same problems of point 1 and need ame tweak. 3) Port shifts too easly, imho block a port for 48h 72h? before it can be conquered again can be a good solution 4) Port mechanics, now firstrates are useless they can be used only on a small amount of ports and sinking each other with current armor is pointless 5) pirate mechanics i have a solution for point 4 and 5. Make ports include capital and sw be based on BR. capital 20k br all other ports 15k If you limit pirates to only 3rds for example, they will be able to bring more guys in 3rds vs nations with firstrates and "escort" balancing both the game and the pirate historical accuracy. In the sense that while nation can bring some firsts+escorts, pirates can bring 25 3rd balancing the fight even if pirates are limited to 3rd rate only. This system will not only adress the pirate mechanics, but also will make first rate useful again and not bind to only certain ports Will add to the game also more variety and strategy since ppl will try to find best combination of ships to bring in a battle, few first? a mix? mono 3rd? etc leaving to devs ability to tweak + - br when players will discover the "imba" combination. This tweaks +future diplomacy and maybe port buildings/evolution linked to clans ability to build ships will make the game perfect ps: warehouse need logs, who have taken stuff out and who put in, as well a clan tax. Also gold retrieve-and deposit should be available everywhere, is a great tool for collecting gold for flags 1. I like long battles, hours spent sailing is better rewarded by a nice long battle then a few minutes. Damage model does need some adjustments though, especially up close (100-200 yard range). 2. Not impossible just requires one to be close now, I'm still demasting ships with close rakes fairly well. I will say however the chainboards and the mast foots on and in the hull need to be modeled as part of the masts. Most masts were brought down by damage to the chain boards and shrouds, not hits to the masts themselves, which are round and far thicker (even if made of conifer woods) then planking. 3. I agree, ports need a cooldown. 4. A BR limit and possibly a rate slot limit are needed. This will require proper adjustments of BR though. Example the Santisma is definitely under BR compared to the Victory. The current system definitely won't be a long term solution, but it does make things more dynamic. 5. Definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTMatt Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 A couple of questions for you. First question, what does SW mean, i underlined and emboldened it for you. Also I'm not sure where your coming from with limiting the pirates to 3rds? Devs have said before that the Pirates will be treated jus like any other nation in terms of gameplay. I'd also like to point out, not many people outside of the clan SORRY has has an opportunity to use 1sts in battle with other players. In fact, you may be the leader of the only clan that has had the privilege, and perhaps abused it. One of the Admins post mentioned him adding in officers the next content patch and possibly changing the pirate mechanics. Im not sure if he erased it or something because I can't find it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayon Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1. I like long battles, hours spent sailing is better rewarded by a nice long battle then a few minutes. Damage model does need some adjustments though, especially up close (100-200 yard range). 2. Not impossible just requires one to be close now, I'm still demasting ships with close rakes fairly well. I will say however the chainboards and the mast foots on and in the hull need to be modeled as part of the masts. Most masts were brought down by damage to the chain boards and shrouds, not hits to the masts themselves, which are round and far thicker (even if made of conifer woods) then planking. 3. I agree, ports need a cooldown. 4. A BR limit and possibly a rate slot limit are needed. This will require proper adjustments of BR though. Example the Santisma is definitely under BR compared to the Victory. The current system definitely won't be a long term solution, but it does make things more dynamic. 5. Definitely. I think the real problem this patch created is that it makes it possible for any ship that is of lesser class (3rd vs 4th rate) to escape combat almost with ease. There is no more demasting, and its very hard to make them sink as well. In fact, if they turn to run and you are not within chain range or just have a bad tag, its pointless to give chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastidius Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Clan warehouse in my view should be converted into a shop where there is a person in change of pricing. You can add a pool of money for it to run if you like to set prices OR set them to zero and allow full access....logs are imperative and also access control by add in some officer ranks. Banker/Crafter/subcrafter/depositer/Supply Officer etc. Also because the nature of crafting at the moment it would be great if we could open tabs up through a gold cost to turn the shop into a manufacturing plant where clannies can come in and go to the materials tab and choose to craft things for the clan and it goes into the shop at it's own price...again adjustable. this way people can craft for the clan by going to their home port and clicking on buttons. We would have some sort of cap number of things we want and a priority system which would just reorder the mats list. this should not be a ridiculous project since the shop core is already there all you need to do is make a Portid that = the clan and tie it to the GPS location so it has the same reference as the portID. Conceptually its a much better way to make people go to a home port. This would make it far less reliant on someone chasing hours in clan chat and actually get clan manufacturing happening. You could also tie a ship tab to it (why is there a shop and a ship button anyway...just a legacy from Sid's Pirates maybe? Upgrade tabs cost another amount to get access to. This offers all the flexibility and the minimal development to get a really good crafting system IMO which promotes home ports and crafting as a thing. at the moment there is too much dependence on the crafters to do all the work for just a gold exchange and since gold is pretty worthless compared to craft hours its unfair. AusEZ/FC have a system which basically works like this except I do all the manual labour of organizing it. Also in other news...make a clan of one, make a clan bank, bypass warehouse expansions......need to have X amount of to clan members to make a bank and make it more than expanding your own warehouse..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastidius Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 A couple of questions for you. First question, what does SW mean, i underlined and emboldened it for you. Also I'm not sure where your coming from with limiting the pirates to 3rds? Devs have said before that the Pirates will be treated jus like any other nation in terms of gameplay. I'd also like to point out, not many people outside of the clan SORRY has has an opportunity to use 1sts in battle with other players. In fact, you may be the leader of the only clan that has had the privilege, and perhaps abused it. SW = Shallow water pirates need changing - polls & History say no to 1st/2nd in pirate fleets......change should be made sometime .....pirates are not like any other nation and that is part of the fundamental issue with pirates even now they are not equal they get advantages and no disadvantages. I believe LV is of the same opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Vicious Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) sw= shallows I am fine with pirate limits but pb mechanics need to change in the way i mention to allow pirates to be competitive. Otherwise first vs 3rd is pointless. The current tag mechanics are also broken, making impossible to leave port, or impossible to re-organize a force if you exit from a battle in OW first of all players should be able to undock and join a planted flag second players should be impossible to be tagged for the same time they cant join a battle. Edited May 23, 2016 by Lord Vicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastidius Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Santi 1. I like long battles, hours spent sailing is better rewarded by a nice long battle then a few minutes. Damage model does need some adjustments though, especially up close (100-200 yard range). 2. Not impossible just requires one to be close now, I'm still demasting ships with close rakes fairly well. I will say however the chainboards and the mast foots on and in the hull need to be modeled as part of the masts. Most masts were brought down by damage to the chain boards and shrouds, not hits to the masts themselves, which are round and far thicker (even if made of conifer woods) then planking. 3. I agree, ports need a cooldown. 4. A BR limit and possibly a rate slot limit are needed. This will require proper adjustments of BR though. Example the Santisma is definitely under BR compared to the Victory. The current system definitely won't be a long term solution, but it does make things more dynamic. 5. Definitely. Santi Vs vic means deadsanti and Vic 75% armour......inequality. Connie Vs Inger similar issues. One thing to have Armour adjustments to make it a long battle, another to create inequality. just a call for it tobe adjusted to more sane levels. No doubting a vic should be a santi in a broadside war but 75% is out of kilter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragger Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I think the real problem this patch created is that it makes it possible for any ship that is of lesser class (3rd vs 4th rate) to escape combat almost with ease. There is no more demasting, and its very hard to make them sink as well. In fact, if they turn to run and you are not within chain range or just have a bad tag, its pointless to give chase. Lesser ship needs to have some card to play. Isn't like it can beat a higher rate combat. In fact the current system drives towards using a mixed squadron instead of all one ball. Faster ships that can pursue and chain to slow them down. And if you are referring to the context of port battles well ships that escape are just another step towards victory in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragger Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Santi Santi Vs vic means deadsanti and Vic 75% armour......inequality. Connie Vs Inger similar issues. One thing to have Armour adjustments to make it a long battle, another to create inequality. just a call for it tobe adjusted to more sane levels. No doubting a vic should be a santi in a broadside war but 75% is out of kilter I really do suspect something isn't working quite right in their current system because the 5cm of effective thickness difference shouldn't be making such a huge damage reduction that it currently is. So I'm not calling foul on the changes until it's stated that it's working properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjacktar Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 If you limit pirates to only 3rds for example, they will be able to bring more guys in 3rds vs nations with firstrates and "escort" balancing both the game and the pirate historical accuracy. In the sense that while nation can bring some firsts+escorts, pirates can bring 25 3rd balancing the fight even if pirates are limited to 3rd rate only. This system will not only adress the pirate mechanics, but also will make first rate useful again and not bind to only certain ports Will add to the game also more variety and strategy since ppl will try to find best combination of ships to bring in a battle, few first? a mix? mono 3rd? etc leaving to devs ability to tweak + - br when players will discover the "imba" combination. This tweaks +future diplomacy and maybe port buildings/evolution linked to clans ability to build ships will make the game perfect flags Dear Mr. Vicous Are you serious?, I suggested this and you made some proposterous arguement about how Pirates would some how be able to acquire 1st rates more so than the US hahaha I mean Im glad you changed sides on this issue, but jeez you were so adamant it was kinda heart warming. Oh well welcome to the club hopefully the devs listen to your somewhat reasonable recommendation. Kind regards, Captain Saintjacktar Australian Flotilla Tattered Flags United States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Vicious Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Dear Mr. Vicous Are you serious?, I suggested this and you made some proposterous arguement about how Pirates would some how be able to acquire 1st rates more so than the US hahaha I mean Im glad you changed sides on this issue, but jeez you were so adamant it was kinda heart warming. Oh well welcome to the club hopefully the devs listen to your somewhat reasonable recommendation. Kind regards, Captain Saintjacktar Australian Flotilla Tattered Flags United States Becouse you not accompany that to any pb changes, i suggest pb with br limit since months, you just want pirates in 3rd vs fleet of firstrates, the 2 things not work unless we do PB with Br limit, this way pirates will bring more 3rd and nation will bring firsts+some minor ships, or same as pirates. There is a big difference between what i propose : give a sense that pirates have limit but still competitive, and what you propose: limit pirates to inferior ships whit current pb mechanics and let the nations use as many bigger ships as they want giving no chance to pirates for compete. As long pb mechanics are as now there is no reason to limti pirates. I am more impartial and honest then you think, i was sayng this same thing when i was USA This is a game not a historical battle re-inactment. Need to be fun and balanced, and when possible also historical accurate. Otherwise how many first there where in the caribbean in same time? 2? 5? for sure not even 10 between all nations Edited May 23, 2016 by Lord Vicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjacktar Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Becouse you not accompany that to any pb changes, i suggest pb with br limit since months, you just want pirates in 3rd vs fleet of firstrates, the 2 things not work unless we do PB with Br limit, this way pirates will bring more 3rd and nation will bring firsts+some minor ships, or same as pirates. There is a big difference between what i propose : give a sense that pirates have limit but still competitive, and what you propose: limit pirates to inferior ships whit current pb mechanics and let the nations use as many bigger ships as they want giving no chance to pirates for compete. As long pb mechanics are as now there is no reason to limti pirates. I am more impartial and honest then you think, i was sayng this same thing when i was USA This is a game not a historical battle re-inactment. Need to be fun and balanced, and when possible also historical accurate. Otherwise how many first there where in the caribbean in same time? 2? 5? for sure not even 10 between all nations Dear Mr. Vicious, This is probably the most constructive thing ive seen you say so far <3 this is far more pleasant than me having to use my brain for whitty retorts. I look forward to more of this input and less of our usual bickering. Additionally I concur with the balancing issue it would be interesting to see how that would play out Kind regards Captain saintjacktar Australian Flotilla Tattered Flags United States 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pada Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 First of all grape needs to get fixed to make frigates useful again. All you need to do at the moment is tank with your stern and you are fine. And if it is possible make ball rakes more dangerous as well because giving someone 20 ball rakes and he is in almost perfectly shape is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFatts Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I just want to chime in and say how wonderful it is to see our pirate overlord and US players having a nice exchange. We all love this game, it needs work and we'll get there. I for one have just enjoying the new smuggling mechanic. It is funny how currently the US faction is using more "pirate like" game play than the pirates themselves. +1 for interacting like grown-ups. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjacktar Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Absolutely not. Pirates are not supposed to be competitive at all to the fleet of ships of the line. Want to sail them, play a nation. The pirates shouldnt even engage fleets like that, nor be taking cities in huge PB's. What they should do is strike swiftly and silently in their fast ships and be gone before any response is possible. Ganking, raiding, espionage, diversions and most of all a lot of rum drinking . For that purpose they should be able to create hidden bases ( exploration would be more important with them in game). Their smaller ships should be able to be modified differently than nations ships (could be additional line of completely different mods). Raiding towns for plunder and to hinder the effort of a nation in their war capaign ( for example succesfull raiding would limit nations BR in next offensive PB against another nation ). Pirates should be able to take bribes from other countries ( who knows what they will do with the money ). Pirates should be able to take pardon from a nation from time to time ( not to often though and who knows for what purpose )Plenty of things to do for the pirates but they should be completely different from the nations. Dear Borch, I agree,ive made a post in suggestions of my ideas for the Pirate faction in the "suggestions" thread. You should have a look and share your opinions Kind regards Captain saintjacktar Australian Flotilla Tattered Flags United States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 port mechanics and pirates are going to be addressed in subsequent patches (this summer) changes to the damage model (finalization of armor tanking) will happen this wednesday. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitan Camuñas Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 A couple of questions for you. First question, what does SW mean, i underlined and emboldened it for you. Also I'm not sure where your coming from with limiting the pirates to 3rds? Devs have said before that the Pirates will be treated jus like any other nation in terms of gameplay. I'd also like to point out, not many people outside of the clan SORRY has has an opportunity to use 1sts in battle with other players. In fact, you may be the leader of the only clan that has had the privilege, and perhaps abused it. thats not true , there's a lot of people outside with 1st rates the problem is that they are afraid of lost the pixels a fear that the SORRY guys dont have 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouse of war Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 If it wasn't for the fact that the devs have above announced that they'll fix the pirate mechanics I would suggest changing the name of the game to Pirate Action and have done with it 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTMatt Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Well the other thread was locked but I wanted to say I really think port raiding would be an entertaining alternative for pirates. The thought of attacking vulnerable ports and having the pirates help themselves to the valuable resources sounds like good fun imo. Btw with admin saying there will be pirate changes we should have this or some main pirate gameplay suggestion thread pinned for feedback by the community. edit: I have another suggestion, pirates can bribe ports to allow their ship to dock. Pirate officers can help lower bribe costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Vicious Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 port mechanics and pirates are going to be addressed in subsequent patches (this summer) changes to the damage model (finalization of armor tanking) will happen this wednesday. Glad to Hear thx Devs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriks Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 i have a solution for point 4 and 5. Make ports include capital and sw be based on BR. capital 20k br all other ports 15k I suspect that battle instance limits being based on number of ships and not BR is about keeping control of the number of database accesses per second. A cutter sailing around and fighting is probably hitting the databases nearly as hard as a first rate sailing around and fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bommel Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 And it would also affect the performance for clients, imagine your PC has to render 100 Basic Cutters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDukeOfDeath Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 already made a post about how to fix the firstrate problem of being useless now http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14138-improvement-for-port-battles/#entry260454 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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