QUIT Undermanning ships! Sheeesh!

[Sir Robert Calder]

 

Do not sail undercrewed in dangerous waters. That is all.

[Rabbi-Marshall Sanderberg]

From what I've gathered, it seems as though the issue lies with folks being very ignorant of game mechanics. They just don't have any inkling that they'll suffer significant performance detriments by having a massively under-crewed ship.

 

Unfortunately, it is very likely that folks with these issues will not view the forums, in my experience with other games of this nature.

 

The only way to solve this issue (which is much less of an issue for existing players- the real problem is folks not knowing what in Christ's name they are doing and not taking the time to look it up) is documentation/tutorial that is EXTREMELY accessible to new players. 

 

I'm talking as close to forcing some poor joker to read pages and pages of manual as we can get. Shit, there is already myriad player-made documentation, just gotta implement that somehow. 

 

I'm a very new player, and have recently shangai'd several of my internet comrades that I've known for years into this. I can certainly see where people would feel absolutely lost and upset at the very start of the game. Of course, personally, I reckon there is no excuse for that. Reading ain't the hardest thing in the world, and before you plunge right into a new game I find it perfectly reasonable to spend up to an hour reading about it.

 

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is very much that while a sizable portion of new players might read a bit about the game, they often will not seek that information out. They'll only view it if the game puts it right in front of 'em.

 

I'm intimately aware that this is early access and alpha! Just trying to give my perspective. I don't at all mind repeating the same shit 5 times in a day, answering the questions involved in "ok i just spent my 40 bucks, how do i play?" 

 

But much new blood won't have a huge nerd like me that'll read for a few hours and teach his buddies everything he learned. 

[The Spud]

Well, so long for me talking about my undercrewed Conni, I am now only 6k XP away from undercrewing a victory as a commodore...

[Fletch]

From what I've gathered, it seems as though the issue lies with folks being very ignorant of game mechanics. They just don't have any inkling that they'll suffer significant performance detriments by having a massively under-crewed ship.

 

Unfortunately, it is very likely that folks with these issues will not view the forums, in my experience with other games of this nature.

 

The only way to solve this issue (which is much less of an issue for existing players- the real problem is folks not knowing what in Christ's name they are doing and not taking the time to look it up) is documentation/tutorial that is EXTREMELY accessible to new players. 

 

I'm talking as close to forcing some poor joker to read pages and pages of manual as we can get. Shit, there is already myriad player-made documentation, just gotta implement that somehow. 

 

I'm a very new player, and have recently shangai'd several of my internet comrades that I've known for years into this. I can certainly see where people would feel absolutely lost and upset at the very start of the game. Of course, personally, I reckon there is no excuse for that. Reading ain't the hardest thing in the world, and before you plunge right into a new game I find it perfectly reasonable to spend up to an hour reading about it.

 

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is very much that while a sizable portion of new players might read a bit about the game, they often will not seek that information out. They'll only view it if the game puts it right in front of 'em.

 

I'm intimately aware that this is early access and alpha! Just trying to give my perspective. I don't at all mind repeating the same shit 5 times in a day, answering the questions involved in "ok i just spent my 40 bucks, how do i play?" 

 

But much new blood won't have a huge nerd like me that'll read for a few hours and teach his buddies everything he learned. 

 

There is the information box on the left of the screen in open world that shows you how badly damaged your ship is. When you are under crewed this is shown in bright red and a % shown.

That should be enough to make people at least stop and think about it.

[Robbert Dole]

On the plus side, one of the things this patch did right (lets not bring this up here) I think we can all agree that starting battles with the cannons unloaded will at least be a step in the right direction when it comes to dramatic undercrewing.

[maturin]

 

 

On the plus side, one of the things this patch did right (lets not bring this up here) I think we can all agree that starting battles with the cannons unloaded will at least be a step in the right direction when it comes to dramatic undercrewing.

It's totally artificial and silly, though.

 

Warships sailed around with their guns loaded, for obvious reasons.

[Robbert Dole]

Yes but warships also sailed around with (initially) full crews and I can already hear the whining about hard limits on shiptypes-ranks.

[Pagan Pete]

NAY! I says! KEEP UNDERMANING SHIPS!!!

 

 

Makes em good fer me to steal em! 

 

 

Bahahahahah

[Rabbi-Marshall Sanderberg]

There is the information box on the left of the screen in open world that shows you how badly damaged your ship is. When you are under crewed this is shown in bright red and a % shown.

That should be enough to make people at least stop and think about it.

 

Yes, you're absolutely right. That SHOULD be enough to make people stop and ponder it.

 

But it ain't, unfortunately. Many of the people that wouldn't pay a lick of attention to that could make beneficial and long-term players of the game.

 

I've seen it time and again, in order to prevent people from making rash decisions, like refunding the game after an hour of play because of some incident in-game that could have been prevented with greater knowledge. I've seen folks do this so many times in other games. Even worse than that, they'll tell all of their friends that the game is plain awful because "omg this stupid thing that just happened was bs the game is terrible" when they'd be saved from that unfortunate loss or waste of time by reading for just a bit before opening the game.

 

But many people won't be pro-active and do that. They've gotta have the stuff slammed right in their faces. 

 

After all, you won't get very many, if any new players quitting because too much information was spoon-fed to them upon logging in for the first time. 

 

But you WILL see at least some players quitting because they didn't have enough. And players=life!

[Carljcharles]

 

Do not sail undercrewed in dangerous waters. That is all.

 

Looking at the comparable damage on your ship Sir Robert, against a heavily under-crewed Coni, suggests that a broadside or two more may have had a very different outcome?

 

I just don't see why people are complaining about other people 'under-crewing'. Its not like on ANY ship in the game, anyone has enough crew to fully man cannon and sail 100%. So you are always under-crewed.

 

Those that want to can do so. It may not be the best choice but it is at least their choice and makes it more interesting for the rest of us.

[Baron Von WeisenCracker]

Sorry, Did not originally post in the "OP" -- BUT this was in regards to the PVE1 server. I know all you guys on the PVP servers have your own trials!!! lol

 

Particular issue we had/have is that in more than one occurrence the under crewed ship has resulted in the loss of a potential capture ship (fleet ships sinking it) or even in one incident the LOSS of our own ship. As we had one battle where a colleague went to save the short handed players ships from the enemy(AI) - who just capped his boat. Meanwhile the (AI) own's ship sank. So my friend went to recap the friendlies boat. BUT! when he did that, During the capture phase - AFTER Melee, the AI came in behind him, with a 2nd ship and boarded his too! (While his crew was aboard the ORIGINAL under staffed boat)

 

Kudo's to the tactics of the AI to do that .. but in short, the situation should never have occurred, had the short handed player been operating a fully crewed vessel.

IIRC, I think that player was in a Mercury with 40 crew!

 

Which is why, we now just look at the players boat in battle  --- and if he joined in under crewed --- the target is all his! Not wasting time or Durabilities!

[BallsOfSteel]

Sailed in Post Captain fleet mission undercrewed connie with 358 on board, Another 7 players on as well and only 1 AI.

 

After amassing a lot of damage an AI turns on it head 90% and I cannot turn or slow fast enough, collision occur and as soon as I turn away Im grabbed and into boarding. AI is at 80% prep instantly and of course I start with 25% having no prior opportunity to prep. It was over in three rounds. 

 

 

The AI are dangerous and unpredictable at best of times and thats the ones on your side. As for the instant turns the enemy  AI are doing  they make manual turns look slow Cant work out how AL ships that are badly damaged are able to maneuver like a sunday arvo sailing.

 

I lost a good ship last night with only 1700 xp to Flag I will only have another couple of battle before a fully crewed gold bellona will make a big difference.

[Fastidius]

Under-crewing is fine for PVE stuff,  highly recommended to get a connie/inger and play above your rank as xp flows faster in big groups and they survive much better than a frigate etc with full crew

 

Boarding ships or being boarded when yo have less or even crew without marines etc is a bad idea........i think you are mixing up bad player with under-crewing.  Bad player learned a lesson. 

[Quineloe]

I just don't see why people are complaining about other people 'under-crewing'. Its not like on ANY ship in the game, anyone has enough crew to fully man cannon and sail 100%. So you are always under-crewed.

 

That is actually not correct. Many ships have enough crew to fully main sails and both broadsides. My Navybrig even had 2 guys in boarding due to crew overflow.

 

And the issue isn't just how well you are operating at your 70% crew, the issue is how rapidly your performance drops as you lose man after man. Especially now that leaks require a large number of crew to work on.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Quineloe

[Enraged Ewok]

That is actually not correct. Many ships have enough crew to fully main sails and both broadsides. My Navybrig even had 2 guys in boarding due to crew overflow.

 

And the issue isn't just how well you are operating at your 70% crew, the issue is how rapidly your performance drops as you lose man after man. Especially now that leaks require a large number of crew to work on.

 

Depends entirely on the ship, and there are less that can than those that can't. For example, Mercury with 24pd carronades can reload 14 or 16 of its 20 guns simultaneously with men on the sails (been a bit since I sailed mine, but it was post-9.7). I know Frigate can't fully man both sides plus sails, neither can Essex (not sure on the Trincomalee, but I believe it can if you fully kit out with good crew mods), and nothing 4th rate or higher will fully man both plus sails. Renomee and Gros Ventre are two of the few that can fully man everything out of the box with men left over for boarding. 

[Quineloe]

And how often do you actually need full crew in gunnery and sails? It's really such a moot thing to point out.

[CptEdwardKenway]

Best thing was when someone said a Trinco with 200 sailors is a good ship. And good for pvp. And they don't even listen if you give them advice or they start to call the players noobs for giving him advices.

[CptEdwardKenway]

Looking at the comparable damage on your ship Sir Robert, against a heavily under-crewed Coni, suggests that a broadside or two more may have had a very different outcome?

 

I just don't see why people are complaining about other people 'under-crewing'. Its not like on ANY ship in the game, anyone has enough crew to fully man cannon and sail 100%. So you are always under-crewed.

 

Those that want to can do so. It may not be the best choice but it is at least their choice and makes it more interesting for the rest of us.

 

Yes but you have to say a Connie should not have a problem with a Surprise. And it doesn't matter if it was a close battle. He lost with a much bigger ship, heavier armor and heavier armed ship which has fully crewed 210 sailors more. Just imagine what happens when he meets a Belle Poule, Trinco, Essex or a Connie 1 vs 1. That wouldn't be a close fight anymore.

Edited April 21, 2016 by CptEdwardKenway

[Enraged Ewok]

And how often do you actually need full crew in gunnery and sails? It's really such a moot thing to point out.

 

Just correcting an incorrect statement. And full crew on guns plus enough on sails to work them in reasonable time is quite helpful in 1v1 engagements (think ships crossing each others' wake for raking attempts).

[Quineloe]

Just correcting an incorrect statement.

You do realize I responded to a post that claimed  that every single ship is always undercrewed and never has enough crew to fully man sails and gunnery?

Why are you defending that statement?

[312_JS]

QUIT telling others what to do! Sheeesh!

[Enraged Ewok]

You do realize I responded to a post that claimed  that every single ship is always undercrewed and never has enough crew to fully man sails and gunnery?

Why are you defending that statement?

 

Because that statement is closer to correct than yours. Ships in game that have the crew to fully man both broadsides (completely filling the gunnery box minus chasers if present) while also having enough men to man sails effectively are the exception and not the norm. From your post on page 2:

 

 

That is actually not correct. Many ships have enough crew to fully main sails and both broadsides. My Navybrig even had 2 guys in boarding due to crew overflow.

 

Extra hammocks can get you to that point on some ships, but to my knowledge only the trader Snow, Gros Ventre, Renomee, and some of the 6th rates can do this out of the box. What I am not debating from your post is that the effect of losses on an actually undercrewed (by game definition) ship are far more severe than losses on a fully crewed one, as it will cut into your ability to fully man one broadside plus sails far quicker.

[Quineloe]

You're saying the statement "there's not a single ship that is fully crewed at 100%" is correct?

That.... is interesting.

[Enraged Ewok]

You're saying the statement "there's not a single ship that is fully crewed at 100%" is correct?

That.... is interesting.

 

No, you misquoted.

 

What he said was "Its not like on ANY ship in the game, anyone has enough crew to fully man cannon and sail 100%. So you are always under-crewed." Which is correct, in the sense that you do not have enough crew to fully man sails and both broadsides as you claimed. A handful of ships can without extra hammocks, and with the extra hammocks changes a few more can, but most cannot. By game "HP" stats they are fully crewed, but that does not mean you can 100% fill sails and both broadsides.