Game is bleeding players

[Yar987]

The game has three big problems right now.

 

The first one is that content is not being pushed fast enough. Like it or not, even if it doesn't amount to much, frequent patches makes players come back and see what's up and takes them away from whatever else they've been doing while not playing Naval Action. It's like a TV channel always playing the same reruns... It gets old fast, even if only one new episode gets out a week, it keeps the audience captive unless the content is terrible.

 

The second one is dare I say the price tag. I'm not saying its not worth it's cost, on the contrary, so far this game has been an extremely good "investment" for me, if I slash the price by the amount of hours I played, I dare say there is no other activity in the world that is better than this on the price/fun ratio. That said, the price tag scares away new players who, because of it, will never get to try the game and realize it's potential, how fun and relaxing it can be, how amazing the combat system is, etc. Basically, the game is currently hiding behind a cash wall. If the price was cut in two right now, I'm sure we'd see that 2-3000 active players mark jump to 10-15k if not more... 20$ is something you can spend without thinking... 40$ you start asking questions, weighting, comparing, hesitating and ultimately not making the move or waiting for a sale, etc... Talking about the average gamer. As good as this game is, if I can grab BOTH Hurtworld AND Rust for the same price, I'm sorry, but you guys aren't even close to being in the game in terms of contents. Lower that price, make a sale, do something, because this kind of price tag in early access is going to kill you.

 

Last but not least, the grind is unbearable for the average gamer. I have lots of friends who play games like 6-8 hours a week tops. Many of them looked at me playing it hardcore for the past weeks and decided to join in on the fun... end result? They didn't even get to level 2 on their first 2-3 days and I never saw them online ever again. People need to feel the progression FAST when they start out... That first 1-10 hours is CRITICAL to capture the interest of players and having the average non-hardcore gamer take 7-8 hours to get to level 2 after failing 2-3 missions that each took 30-45 min to find/try is just bad business.

 

IMHO, everything should be much easier at lower levels and the progression should be faster. I want the average noob that has no clue what he's doing to get to a point where he can buy and sail a fully crewed Snow within 2 hours, including the flumbling around, not knowing how to shoot or sail, etc.

 

Wanna keep the grind for higher levels? Fine... Once anyone pasts the 10-20 hours mark, they either like it or hate it, those that like it won't mind the grind so much.

 

The devs really need to wake up and changing things, otherwise the numbers are going to keep plummeting and we'll end up with a ghost town of a game. 

 

Oh also:

http://steamcharts.com/app/311310#1m

 

There is a clear decline

The high price for the early access alpha is likely to discourage players who don't actually want to test the game.

[surfimp]

Things seemed pretty steady the last few weeks but the last couple days have seen all servers reporting "Low" populations for US West Coast primetime (roughly 8pm Pacific until server reset time).

 

An acquaintance from another server mentioned that Ubisoft's launch of the Division has drawn some players away there, and that the grind seems to be pushing more casual players out.

 

I don't personally mind the grind the way it is currently as the ships I really want to sail, I can already sail, but the launch of the new patch and especially some additional content around economic production will be most welcome, especially if it encourages more short-run trade voyages rather than teleports. This will lead to more PVP as it will facilitate privateering/pirating as a more worthwhile activity.

[Atomic Moose]

above captain rank the grind is beyond retarded 50k for the next level and then 75k for the level after that is where you are losing all your players

i play for 3-5 hrs a nite at the rate i am going it will take me over 2 weeks to get to rank 3 and prob 4-5 weeks to get to rank 2 

 

that is not conducive to keeping players also the dam fing wind in the ow has to go it servers no purpose at all leave the direction so it infuences battles to start but not in the open world

 

also make it easier to get things done 5-10 to get to mission 15-30m for mission 5-10m to get back that is almost an hr to do things for maybe 500 exp and 12-15k gold that will not keep players, sure we hit fleets but with 20 little ships jumping in all the time makes it hard also

 

lets some math here say 1k exp hr that is 50hrs of game play for a lv4 cap to rank up at 3-5 hrs a nite that is almost 10 days that will not work period

love the game but this grind has to go or give us other things to do 

[Cossack]

It's no surprise, adding an extra EU server was not needed. Yes we had some queues at Steam release but with every single game a lot of people leave 1/2 weeks after. PvP1 gets around 1800 players prime time EU down from 2500. Many people will also be taking a break now playing games like The Division that just released and will probably return when the next big patch comes out. 

 

If numbers are getting low perhaps it's time to merge severs. 

[[MCC] Die Antwoord]

The high price for the early access alpha is likely to discourage players who don't actually want to test the game.

How is that a good thing though? What motivates the player to buy or continue playing the game is irrelevant in the context of early access. If you are actively playing the game you are testing it and making it better even if you never play it with a tester mindset. You will encounter issues, they will piss you off and you will eitber report them or not. Meanwhile the devs can test a bunch of metrics, get feedback without asking or requiring it, log actions and behaviors, etc. Doesn't matter if the hamster knows its testing or not so long as he's going through the labirynth, the devs can check him out and get more out of it than watching an empty one.

If they just want testers they should remove the game from early access and pay us to test the game, like everybody else does (or usee to). Early access is a give-give system, you can't both charge the players and expect them to treat the early access as a job!

[Yar987]

How is that a good thing though? What motivates the player to buy or continue playing the game is irrelevant in the context of early access. If you are actively playing the game you are testing it and making it better even if you never play it with a tester mindset. You will encounter issues, they will piss you off and you will eitber report them or not. Meanwhile the devs can test a bunch of metrics, get feedback without asking or requiring it, log actions and behaviors, etc. Doesn't matter if the hamster knows its testing or not so long as he's going through the labirynth, the devs can check him out and get more out of it than watching an empty one.

If they just want testers they should remove the game from early access and pay us to test the game, like everybody else does (or usee to). Early access is a give-give system, you can't both charge the players and expect them to treat the early access as a job!

It still makes the purchaser really think if they want to buy into the game at its current state though. Early access to me is like, "are you really excited to play this game, and don't care if it's finished? Then buy now!". There's enough people that ask "why is the ui so bad", or other questions easily answered by the fact that it's a game still in development. Maybe right now the devs aren't looking for tens of thousand of players, and are looking for more dedicated, and concerned customers. There was a similar time before steam early access, when they had the limited number of players/testers they wanted.

[Vernon Merrill]

The give is getting a say (albeit a small one) in the development of the game. Also, I think it's what you put into it is what you get out of it. Would I probably be starting to get bored if I was trying to make a go of it as an indie, probably. But I made the effort to investigate and research clans, choose one that suited me and throw my lot in with them. It has made it a completely new game for me and far more enjoyable. Just my $.02

[The MetaBaron]

The longer you go without a patch, the less players there are. It's a cycle that has already repeated half a dozen times.

 

The only difference now is that people may have left because they got zerged in RvR. But that's the kind of player who will come back once the mechanics are fixed.

 

Pretty sure all the Danes are on PvP 1, taking over the Caribbean.

 

Can confirm

[Tennessee88]

The Division's launch has surely hurt us. Not odd to see players dropping off, especially at this early stage. The key is getting them back once the game advances. That being said, I think we should all realize how specialized this game is and that we were never going to retain a very large player base. 

 

 

I love this game, but have trouble recommending it to other clan mates at this time simply because it needs some time to develop more content. I know they would love it if they gave it time to become invested, but I don't know how to get that initial hook in when their first 40 hours is pure grinding. Been thinking of just trying to get them into Snows and take a small squadron to a free port in enemy territory and just have fun PVPing, but now sure how long that would last due to the amount of 3rd rates that would come running looking to pick a fight. 

 

Honestly, while I love new ships, I don't believe that is where the most pressing need is (although, unless the small nature of this team makes it different, programming doesn't always overlap with art asset creation). Would love to see new types of missions that encourage varied game play, or at least something that consists of sailing to point A) and take or sink an enemy ship. Also would love to see missions that are geared towards encouraging PVP at all levels. Finally, really need to find a way to get players more invested and interested early on... which is hard just simply due to the nature of the map and the patience it takes to be of any consequence. 

 

For me this is a wonderful game that lines up perfectly to my interests for this period of history. But that isn't true for everyone.

[Tennessee88]

The high price for the early access alpha is likely to discourage players who don't actually want to test the game.

 

I am fully against lowering the price anytime soon, for exactly the same reason I am for Squad. First and foremost, lets be honest, at this phase of the game it is better to have a smaller invested population. Secondly, this early in development, all you are likely going to do is scare off players and get a long list of poor reviews from impatient gamers. 

[Slamz]

Last but not least, the grind is unbearable for the average gamer. I have lots of friends who play games like 6-8 hours a week tops. Many of them looked at me playing it hardcore for the past weeks and decided to join in on the fun... end result? They didn't even get to level 2 on their first 2-3 days and I never saw them online ever again. People need to feel the progression FAST when they start out... That first 1-10 hours is CRITICAL to capture the interest of players and having the average non-hardcore gamer take 7-8 hours to get to level 2 after failing 2-3 missions that each took 30-45 min to find/try is just bad business.

 

I do think they should reduce the XP requirements for the first couple of ranks.

 

Or at least get people up to 100 crew after a couple of missions. That would be enough to undercrew a Snow which, in the new crew system, should work well enough for most purposes.

 

As it stands, they're stuck with 40 crew which I don't think will be enough to undercrew a Snow even in the new system. And then it's 60 crew which still isn't enough, I bet.

 

 

I think I would actually just eliminate a rank at the bottom and then make the starter rank have 100 crew. Newbies still start with a Basic Cutter but undercrewing a Snow and being reasonably effective would be immediately available, and the Snow is a respectable PvP ship. (Frankly the Basic Cutter isn't terrible either but I understand why nobody wants to stick with that for 6 hours.)

[KrakkenSmacken]

The high price for the early access alpha is likely to discourage players who don't actually want to test the game.

 

I though we were talking about a drop off of players who have already paid quite a bit and are therefore should be MORE motivated to play than less.

 

At the point they started charging 50$ (Canadian) a pop, it stopped being "just a test".

[Long Beard]

You also have to take into account a couple of AAA games have just been released. The Division and Far Cry Primal. I'm sure a AAA release will have a temporary impact on most MMO games. They'll be back when they realise how terrible both those games are

 

Also, I've been reading that PVP2 pirates are having a hard time over there. Maybe some defections to PVP1.

I wouldn't worry too much. Steam sales, new patches etc all bring new and old players out of the woodwork. 

[KrakkenSmacken]

You also have to take into account a couple of AAA games have just been released. The Division and Far Cry Primal. I'm sure a AAA release will have a temporary impact on most MMO games. They'll be back when they realise how terrible both those games are

 

Also, I've been reading that PVP2 pirates are having a hard time over there. Maybe some defections to PVP1.

I wouldn't worry too much. Steam sales, new patches etc all bring new and old players out of the woodwork. 

 

Could be.  many pirates jumped to other nations, some shifted around in the clans.

 

Personally I like a challenge, and there is no shortage of players camping around mort to fight at the moment.  Problem is that for new players in cutters it's not a just a challenge, its pretty much a curb stomping and not any fun at all.

[Yar987]

I though we were talking about a drop off of players who have already paid quite a bit and are therefore should be MORE motivated to play than less.

 

At the point they started charging 50$ (Canadian) a pop, it stopped being "just a test".

I was responding to someone that said the high price scares off new players.

 

And it didn't stop becoming a test when it reached $50. All the warnings about it being an early access were still there. If anything, that should make one really question whether they're $50-committed to an unfinished game.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

game needs more content and fast, I know there are several new patches coming out and some down the line but for them to be being put in place just now is too long, they should have been at steam launch.

 

the game needs a bigger dev team putting more ships in and more involving content to make people stay instead of waiting months and months for more content, it's becoming like DayZ.

 

I have been a fan of this game since 2014 and for me I will still be dedicated, but what I am saying is casual or new players may be turned off fast.

 

Content is a vicious cycle.  People that hang around only for new content are the same people which rapidly tire of not getting a new shiny and leave.  I agree, new content draws people, but it won't actually draw the right people for the game.  Those people are playing steadily despite no new ships, etc.  New content, however, does not apply to things like bug fixes and mechanics adjustments - in those cases, discouraged people can be enticed to come back if their headaches are removed.  

 

above captain rank the grind is beyond retarded 50k for the next level and then 75k for the level after that is where you are losing all your players

i play for 3-5 hrs a nite at the rate i am going it will take me over 2 weeks to get to rank 3 and prob 4-5 weeks to get to rank 2 

 

that is not conducive to keeping players also the dam fing wind in the ow has to go it servers no purpose at all leave the direction so it infuences battles to start but not in the open world

 

also make it easier to get things done 5-10 to get to mission 15-30m for mission 5-10m to get back that is almost an hr to do things for maybe 500 exp and 12-15k gold that will not keep players, sure we hit fleets but with 20 little ships jumping in all the time makes it hard also

 

lets some math here say 1k exp hr that is 50hrs of game play for a lv4 cap to rank up at 3-5 hrs a nite that is almost 10 days that will not work period

love the game but this grind has to go or give us other things to do 

 

Why the rush?  I'm just barely in a Cerberus and having a great time.  If the next rank fast is what you're seeking, what will you do when you run out of ranks?

 

My recommendation is to find something to do other than grind XP, something fun that you enjoy, or you'll be a "no longer plays" statistic in no time.  

[Long Beard]

I was responding to someone that said the high price scares off new players.

 

And it didn't stop becoming a test when it reached $50. All the warnings about it being an early access were still there. If anything, that should make one really question whether they're $50-committed to an unfinished game.

I too was reluctant at first due to the price tag, but the steam reviews won me over. That said, I would have jumped in MUCH earlier if the price had been lower.

[KrakkenSmacken]

I was responding to someone that said the high price scares off new players.

 

And it didn't stop becoming a test when it reached $50. All the warnings about it being an early access were still there. If anything, that should make one really question whether they're $50-committed to an unfinished game.

 

The below is not talking about myself.  I signed up for "hard" mode pirate and testing. I know what that is. Where things are now is fine for me. This is about perception in general.

 

People are stupid, and it is a well know fact that developers, marketers and game fans in general need to realize it's not what you say, warnings you give, or fine print you can point people to, it's how you make them FEEL that will determine if they consider it money well spent. 

 

If someone drops money on a game, it FEELS like they should be getting a product worth that money.   For every degree off that expectation the reality differs from apparent value, the more the person FEELS like they have been ripped off.

 

Now imagine you dropped the $50 on the game and that was your monthly budget, and your first experience in game is to get ganked in your first mission. Do you give a rats ass that it's in "testing"?  Maybe. 

 

How about after the second, or third, or fourth time it happens because you randomly picked a nation (Pirates PvP2 for example) that currently is completely under siege? 

 

Ok try to move to crafting, only to find out that to make even the simplest ship requires materials not available to your nation any more due to the fact you picked the losing team.

 

"They should have thought about that" and the like just does not matter, only that they don't like the game and probably FEEL angry and ripped off that they have no good way forward.Like it or not EA has changed the customer demographic landscape dramatically, and raised expectations while lowered patience since the original players voiced their opinions on direction.

 

Alpha and "testing" is a fine cover for things like crappy UI interface, spotty in game behavior, and weird bugs, but having what FEELS like core mechanics and crappy community behavior simply drives people away.  This game has great core battle mechanics, but the open world port capture action is driving people away and not destined to change dramatically any time soon.  

 

The question is how long can/should development stay the course and accept those losses, now that with EA you are getting a less informed, more impulse purchase type of customer? 

Edited March 9, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Blood Eagle]

another primetime night of 435 online at 8PM eastern for PVP2...

 

 

I can deal with long crappy grinds somewhat, and lack of content, but lack of players makes this game feel a lot like darkfall 1.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Dutchmaster

[Aetrion]

The notion that players who want new content and aren't happy just doing the same thing over and over are somehow bad and shouldn't be catered to is completely insane. If people didn't crave new content the whole damn game industry wouldn't exist because there wouldn't be any reason to make new games, and nobody would be switching to this game from other games.

 

Trying to design a game purely for the few people who are such hardcore fans that they don't ever need new content to keep playing is complete madness. It would mean that right out of the gate the game would be in its most profitable state by immediately firing all artists, designers and software engineers and putting the game in maintenance mode on day 1. So basically, kill the game off immediately purely because some crazy people on the forum declare that players who want new content are "the wrong kinds of players".

 

Early access is such a freakshow of bad ideas sometimes it's not even funny.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Aetrion

[Long Beard]

The below is not talking about myself.  I signed up for "hard" mode pirate and testing. I know what that is. Where things are now is fine for me. This is about perception in general.

 

People are stupid, and it is a well know fact that developers, marketers and game fans in general need to realize it's not what you say, warnings you give, or fine print you can point people to, it's how you make them FEEL that will determine if they consider it money well spent. 

 

If someone drops money on a game, it FEELS like they should be getting a product worth that money.   For every degree off that expectation the reality differs from apparent value, the more the person FEELS like they have been ripped off.

 

Now imagine you dropped the $50 on the game and that was your monthly budget, and your first experience in game is to get ganked in your first mission. Do you give a rats ass that it's in "testing"?  Maybe. 

 

How about after the second, or third, or fourth time it happens because you randomly picked a nation (Pirates PvP2 for example) that currently is completely under siege? 

 

Ok try to move to crafting, only to find out that to make even the simplest ship requires materials not available to your nation any more due to the fact you picked the losing team.

 

"They should have thought about that" and the like just does not matter, only that they don't like the game and probably FEEL angry and ripped off that they have no good way forward.Like it or not EA has changed the customer demographic landscape dramatically, and raised expectations while lowered patience since the original players voiced their opinions on direction.

 

Alpha and "testing" is a fine cover for things like crappy UI interface, spotty in game behavior, and weird bugs, but having what FEELS like core mechanics and crappy community behavior simply drives people away.  This game has great core battle mechanics, but the open world port capture action is driving people away and not destined to change dramatically any time soon.  

 

The question is how long can/should development stay the course and accept those losses, now that with EA you are getting a less informed, more impulse purchase type of customer? 

I would imagine most of the people who to buy the game have probably spent a good bit of time researching it, watching 'lets play' videos or reading the many positive steam reviews before taking the plunge. I know I did and if the price was lower you'd probably get a lot of people who won't like it impulse buying then quitting and leaving a bad review.

The PVP2 issue with pirates being under-siege I don't think is an issue for new players because when choosing a nation, the Pirate nation is described as Very Hard. Now I accept many think Pirate is no more or less harder than other nations, but the warning is still presented, so a player who joins pirate and finds it 'very hard' is getting what they were told they were getting.

 

The crappy interface isn't something that even registered on my radar because I knew what I was signing up for was early access. The game is in much better state than I was expecting tbh.

To conclude, I have a load of early access games I purchased from steam. Quite a few 'impulse purchases' that I drifted away from after a day because the game was in a bad state. I can't say the same for NA.  I've pretty much played this non stop since buying it.

 

With any early access game I think you'll always see a high churn rate with people leaving and coming back to see what's changed.  NA's the first early access game that's held my attention for more than a couple of weeks.

[Long Beard]

another primetime night of 435 online at 8PM eastern for PVP2...

 

 

I can deal with long crappy grinds somewhat, and lack of content, but lack of players makes this game feel a lot like darkfall 1.

EUPVP1 had 1500 on when I logged in, 8pm UK time.  If I was on PVP2, and player numbers were bothering me, I'd jump to PVP1 for sure. Wouldn't take long to get back up and running again.

[Ruthless4u]

EUPVP1 had 1500 on when I logged in, 8pm UK time.  If I was on PVP2, and player numbers were bothering me, I'd jump to PVP1 for sure. Wouldn't take long to get back up and running again.

Won't solve it unfortunately. When I logged in at 8:30 p, Eastren on pvp 1 we barely had better numbers.

[eklipz]

http://steamcharts.com/app/311310

[plucka]

game needs more content and fast, I know there are several new patches coming out and some down the line but for them to be being put in place just now is too long, they should have been at steam launch.

 

the game needs a bigger dev team putting more ships in and more involving content to make people stay instead of waiting months and months for more content, it's becoming like DayZ.

 

I have been a fan of this game since 2014 and for me I will still be dedicated, but what I am saying is casual or new players may be turned off fast.

 

As a new player I agree.  I got this game three weeks ago, loved it for 2 weeks then got burnt out on the mission grinding as they are essentially identical and boring.  PvP is just too difficult, you either get ganked, have to sail for hours to find some action, or people just run from you even if I have an equal or even lesser ship.  I went from playing the game daily to not having touched it in a week.  

 

Game has amazing potential but needs content to attract and keep players.  As much as people go on about PVP I think they need to put more focus on PvE,  make some damn missions with some variety and purpose, let us build an AI fleet beyond the crappy 2 cutters, let us build an base/empire, go treasure hunting, etc etc.  Doing endless boring identical missions is not going to cut it.  

 

Yes I realise it's only Alpha but probably won't get into this game until a lot more features/content are in.