UngerOverDunn Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Hi all, I both experienced (a member of my clan got hit) and was accused of an exploit in two consecutive days. This may already be in the forums, but I don't see it. Here is the scenario as a specific example: Ten players (can be any nation) start a battle about two minute's sail outside a free town, I imagine with an npc lone trader is best as the battle finishes quickly by letting it escape. Then they wait. Meanwhile a lone player (buddy of the ten player group) is inside the free town. Once the group has finished their battle and are ready the lone "in-port" player starts popping in and out of the free port. Looking for approaching/departing enemy players heading towards where the group of ten waits. The group of ten are invisible as they are just sitting on the summary / loot screen after their battle. Note this would work particularly well in ports like Bensalem with few directional options when leaving. Once a suitable target is observed to be heading in the right direction the "in-port" player informs the hidden group and they click OK, leaving their "battle". They are now right on top of the targeted enemy. Some clarifications: I'm posting to make people aware of the mechanic so the community can decide if we want it or not. FWIW, I think this is a smart "exploit". If it's decided it is an exploit, this is what early access is all about. I want to know if this is an exploit, or if I can start doing this If it is an exploit, how do we police it right now? I came out of a battle outside a free port and jumped a player who was sailing past. They were not happy and accused us of exploiting the game, but we weren't. No evidence either way though. If it is an exploit it needs a fix from devs I think. I don't believe just popping in and out of a free town is an exploit. There is enough "cannot attack due to invisibility/invulnerability" time for an approaching player to either enter the free town or turn and run. Plus this reflect the reality of players "looking out to sea from the port". The problem is with the permanently invisible group. Having team mates hide behind a nearby island in OW while someone pops in and out is also fine by me. Taking advantage of local terrain is cool. Suggested fix: a count-down timer of X minutes after a battle is finished. X minutes to press leave battle, then X minutes to assign loot and read details. After that you are automatically respawned in OW. I guess 3 minutes is loads. Note this takes away from the ability to stay after a battle and practice sailing, shooting etc. Note: Perhaps this is the wrong place to post as I'm not pointing the finger at any player / group. I just don't see how anyone would get hard evidence of it Vs a coincidence. Outside of not having someone to put on "tribunal", I figured this was the best place to post about exploits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Spivey Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 My view is that this is 'gaming the game' rather than playing the game. Obviously 'invisible' fleets of ships that suddenly appear of of bright clear skies an absurdity and not in the spirit of the game. Once found, such an exploit should be reported and not used again. Only those sad sacks who are desperate to win at all costs would continue to use such a gamey exploit. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UngerOverDunn Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 It will take a dev intervention to fix it. However, appearing out of battle as normal and finding there is an enemy player right in front of you can happen coincidentally so I don't think there is a way to bug report or successfully bring anyone to tribunal for doing this. So... in this case how do we bring it to the attention of the game devs and make sure it gets considered for fixing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Obvious exploit, but not tribunal material. Very difficult to solve as long as we have AI, locked missions and pirate self-attack on the PvP server. Currently battle markers are removed from the OS 30 sec after a battle closes. This is logical, as you shouldn't be able to come along many minutes later and camp a battle, but it comes with the problem of using battles as invisible hidey holes. Meanwhile, forcing people out of the end battle screen is problematic as real battles can be very long and the game should not lock people into playing continuously for 1.5 hrs +. Rather than forcing people out, perhaps a completed battle marker should appear on the OS after a reasonable break period (2 min?), explicitly listing the actual force and nationality still present in the instance (not the join side nationality from the original instance). Of course there is an obvious workaround, and it's the same as any limit on end battle screen waiting: players can engage AI (or pirates eachother) and simply sail without combat in the instance for the full length of a battle, exiting when they chose. Ultimately, returning to our old system is probably better: do not remove battle markers, but allow players to exit far from their location on the OS based on distances sailed in the instance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamz Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 This is logical, as you shouldn't be able to come along many minutes later and camp a battle Why not? People exiting the battle are invulnerable and invisible for a time, so it would be impossible to effectively camp the battle even if you could see it. As I understand it, the only reason battle markers are hidden is to reduce clutter. Personally I would like to see a toggle to "show hidden battles". At any rate, this "exploit" isn't that terrible anyway, since the players popping out of the battle still have a long time of being invulnerable (cannot attack) plus 20 seconds of the attack timer itself. The defender has ample time to see them, maneuver and potentially even do a defensive tag (hitting an enemy or nearby NPC at a purposefully bad range and angle, allowing them an easy escape followed by invis/invuln). The better example of this exploit in play is to actually tag someone "1v1" in the wide open ocean. They look all around, see no enemies anywhere remotely nearby on a clear, sunny day, go ahead and accept the fight, and then your 20 friends pop out of an invisible battle nearby and jump in. Now it's 21v1 and they had no way to see it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Why not? People exiting the battle are invulnerable and invisible for a time, so it would be impossible to effectively camp the battle even if you could see it. As I understand it, the only reason battle markers are hidden is to reduce clutter. Personally I would like to see a toggle to "show hidden battles". At any rate, this "exploit" isn't that terrible anyway, since the players popping out of the battle still have a long time of being invulnerable (cannot attack) plus 20 seconds of the attack timer itself. The defender has ample time to see them, maneuver and potentially even do a defensive tag (hitting an enemy or nearby NPC at a purposefully bad range and angle, allowing them an easy escape followed by invis/invuln). The better example of this exploit in play is to actually tag someone "1v1" in the wide open ocean. They look all around, see no enemies anywhere remotely nearby on a clear, sunny day, go ahead and accept the fight, and then your 20 friends pop out of an invisible battle nearby and jump in. Now it's 21v1 and they had no way to see it coming. Because due to the sped up open world speed, you would never have known the battle was there in the first place. Hiding the battle was implemented for that reason - unfortunately that exposed the newest exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamz Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Hiding the battle was implemented for that reason - unfortunately that exposed the newest exploit. Does the decision to hide battles predate invisibility and invulnerability? I would certainly like to see the number of people required to effectively camp a battle on the open world, knowing that the people inside are going to have a fair amount of invisibility to get a head start in any direction, and then a minute of invulnerability and 20 seconds of attack timer on top of that! Trying to camp them out (for what could end up easily being an hour) and then chase them down (which might easily be impossible) would be quite a trick! That's such a tiny chance of effective abuse that it's an easy choice between that risk and the current risk, which is various ways of exploiting deep open sea semi-permanent invisibility. Edited March 7, 2016 by Slamz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 If you force players out at the end of the battle as a solution, their solution will be demasting a trader and waiting right next to it. This needs a game mechanics change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wili Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Something similar happened to me two days ago, I was arriving to Mortimer Town when I saw a US renomee, I thought that was not a big deal as I was close to Mortimer and I pass near the renomee. Suddenly 10 of his friends logged in and all of them attacked me at once. I think an easy fix could be that after logging in you shouldn't be able to attack anyone for 5 minutes or so, but you will be able to be attacked. That would avoid login off in front of an enemy port waiting for the port battle to open and avoiding the blockade also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 White swords - open battle. Red swords - closed ongoing battle. Also set timeout ( 5 - 15 minutes )on Battle Over status & Battle Result info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Does this still apply with the new 2 minute join timer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I had an amusing experience with this today in a high traffic place, far from port. Enemy Bellona was sitting with sails cut and teleported/logged out just before I got a tag on him and suddenly a wild Surprise appeared out of nowhere coming my way a minute later so I observed him and he didn't change his course from me for a minute or two. I cancelled getting wind on him, kept my distance instead because he was danger close and scanned all the horizon around like three times because it looked highly suspicious that a single surprise is being so agressive and then a Trincomalee popped right behind him with invulnerability and it was clear ambush from result screen. Clever try but sloppy execution so I give these weasels 3 points for style out of 10 but I can totally see how this would work against newer players, not sure if it's worth the time but it's obviously happening.After this incident I had a hour long battle and I had to use result screen to go afk so I don't see how you would remove this feature for players who just have to go afk after long battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Roberts Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think it's an abuse of the game mechanics and there are a lot of broken game mechanics right now that need some serious fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainCaveMan Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Once the battle over and a player enters the final screen they have two minutes to make their choices and then they are sent back to the open world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Does this still apply with the new 2 minute join timer? Yes, this tactic is still widely popular and has been used all day yesterday to hide a fleet of 10 ships at concepcion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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