Fluffy Fishy

Sorry, I beat you to it. they are great videos though

Because of the small number of the Fama class ships I will be attempting over the next week or two to write up the rough history of each one of the ships, I will aim to do this over two posts in this thread, this one covering Fama and Gloria Veneta, the next Covering Stengel, Beyrand and Diamante. Hopefully this will give a bit more background to these ships and help people learn a little more about this fantastic class of ship that was very much the swan song of the Venetian Republic's shipbuilding ability. There is also a nice visible divide between the 2 ships that were completed under the Venetian republic, and the 3 that were finished under the French and Austrian occupation of Venice. Fama French Name: Dubois The Fregata Grossa class, and nameship of her class Fama was laid down on the 8th of June 1782, she was drawn up by the shipwright Domenico Giacomazoo. She was constructed in the North East basin of the Venetian Arsenal known as the Novissima Grande the most modern part of the Arsenal, at this point frequently used for the main fighting ships of the late Venetian Fleet. She was constructed over a period of 2 years in dry dock 13, situated on the northern side of the basin itself. She was completed and launched on the 31st of March, 1784 with her intended armament of 26 x 40lb, 26 x 30lb, 14 x 14lb and 2 x 2 x 14lb Chasers (in Venetian lb, English conversion given above). Fama was launched straight into a tumultuous time, Venice had very recently escalated to full hostilities with the Beylik of Tunis over his protective status of the Barbary Pirates on the Tunisian coastline who had been raiding Venetian shipping lanes. Her first stop was the Venetian port of Malamocco, an town situated just outside Venice on the island of Lido, here she was equipped and supplied, it was here she met her captain, Iseppo Stalimene. On May 19th, A month later, after her hold was packed, she was dispatched to join the majority of the Venetian fleet in their action against the Barbary pirates, at the time based in Malta. It was here that she caught the eye of the Venetian Grand Admiral, Angelo Emo, who had himself conducted the naval reforms that lead to her construction, incredibly pleased with how she turned out Fama was almost immediately made Emo's flagship, even taking priority over the larger 70 gun first rates due to her speed and great sailing capabilities. As the flagship of the Venetian fleet she took part in numerous roles such as coastal raiding, town bombardment chasing down, capturing and deterring pirates, who were mainly sailing ships like Xebecs, Schooners and Brigs. Stalimene and Emo, making the most of Fama as a fantastically versatile ship, able to use speed or firepower when it was most appropriate in a campaign conducted mostly through shock value. The Tunisian campaign lasted 2 years, when the Beylik was brought to comparative terms after the siege of Tunis, and bombardment of several towns on the Tunisian coastline, Fama being used constantly, confidently and aggressively. After the terms were struck the Venetian fleet took a slightly more passive role, Fama was returned with the Fleet back to Malta, where general hostilities continued against the Tunisian Barbary pirates, Fama remained flagship for this time able to deliver the decisive firepower and speed needed to hunt and defeat the piratical threat. The hostilities finally ended with Angelo Emo's death on 3rd of March, 1792, and it was decided that it was appropriate for Fama to sail back to Venice carrying the body of the deceased Admiral, as Fama was so admired by Emo during his life. She arrived back in Venice on May 24th, where she was anchored in sight of Saint Mark's Square and took part in the state funeral proceedings for her be-smitten commander. Following the Funeral she was then resupplied and sailed down to Corfu, the main strategic port controlled by Venice in order to guard shipping interests in Dalmatia and Greece, but also secure the mouth of the Adriatic Sea. She remained here until the winter of 1793/4, when she was sent back to Venice to receive some maintenance work in the Arsenal, before being dispatched back to corfu on the 12th of February 1794 under Captain Zuanne Millich. She would then remain based in Corfu until the fall of the Republic in 1797. After the Venetian surrender to the Napoleon, Fama was still stationed in Corfu, where she was discovered alongside 7 other large ships, San Giorgio (70), Vulcano (66), Medea (70), Brillante (38), Palma (38), Cerere (32) and Pallade (24). Once she had been taken by the French fleet on their arrival to Corfu, she was then renamed Dubois, in memory of Major General Paul Alexis Dubois, who was killed in action during Napoleon's Italian campaign during 1796. The newly named Dubois was kept as part of the French fleet following the treaty of Campo Formio, which transferred most of the Venetian assets into the hands of Austria, Fama/Dubois was kept as part of the French Fleet. Come the beginning of 1798 Dubois was sent to Toulon, here she was rearmed with more appropriate guns for service under the French, with her cannons being stripped away, melted down and replaced with the standardised French guns of the period. She was rearmed with 26 x 24lb, 26 x 18lb, 12 x 6lb on her broadsides, with 2 x 2 x 6lb chasers, these new guns, while different weren't a vast change from her original armaments, although her top decks saw a slight reduction, from what would have converted more cleanly to a French 9lb gun. During her refit she was also reduced to a 64, removing the 2 rearmost of the guns from her weatherdeck, surveyed and recorded. After her brief refit and rearmament Dubois then joined the French Expedition to Egypt, serving as a warship in the Fleet, however her service was cut short by a signalling error which on the 2nd of July, 1798 caused her to collide in the port of Alexandria with the much larger 110 gun first rate L'Orient. The damage was great enough to knock her out of active service, so she remained in harbour, consequently missing the battle of the Nile, and likely capture by the British under Nelson. During her time she stuck in port she was put to good use and acted as the headquarters for famous French General Jean-Baptiste Kleber until March 1800, when thanks to 2 years of neglect and undersupply and British blockade as part of the fairly disastrous campaign she was disarmed and decreed irreparable, so the decision was made to scuttle her at the mouth of the harbour to create a barrier blocking the British Ottoman forces from entering Alexandria. After the British successfully sieged down Alexandria in 1801 and escape of Napoleon on the Venetian ship La Muiron (44), Dubois was captured in a semi sunken state, the decision was taken to demolish her, taking the good timbers to repair the British Fleet, and so after 17 years of esteemed service, Fama was carefully deconstructed and used to temporarily patch up the Royal Navy Gloria Veneta French Name: Banel Gloria Veneta was the second ship of the Fama class both to be laid down and completed, she, like Fama herself was also set down on June 8th 1782, in the Novissima Grande, in the west side of the basin, known as the Novissimetta in the covered dockyard 22. Due to the scarce funding that the Venetian state had in its twilight, Gloria Veneta was slowly built over a 12 year period, which was at first overseen by the architect Andrea Chiribiri, but then later by Carlo Novello, who saw her through to her completion and launch on March 31st, 1794. She was soon laden with supplies and a crew, captained by a Giuseppe Duodo and on the 31st of March 1794 she set sail to join the Venetian fleet stationed at Corfu where she stayed and operated alongside her sister ship Fama for a couple of years. In June 1796 Gloria Veneta was made part of a squadron of ships, alongside the larger ship Eolo (70) that was under the orders of Admiral Leonardo Correr was to return to Venice, due to the growing worry about French aggression in northern Italy. Despite Venetian neutrality to the conflict between Austria and France, the Venetian government was becoming increasingly agitated and wary, especially of Napoleon, who it was well known that he despised the hedonistic style of Venetian life. So under the Captaincy of Tommaso Condulmer, she returned to Venice, her mission was to enhance the defensive capabilities of Venice and the upper Adriatic sea, and so hopefully deter any possibility of French aggression towards Venice. Gloria Veneta stayed in Venice up until the fall of the republic in 1797, where she played quite a significant part in the events over the short conflict between Napoleon and Venice. She was involved with the cannon fire upon and capture of the first 3 French ships that tried to enter into Venice on the 20th of April 1797, the first and most famous being the French Ketch Le Liberateur d'Italie, who was the first to try and force entry into the Venetian Lagoon. This naval skirmish was the only cause of loss of life in battle in the events leading up to the unconditional surrender of Venice on May 12th, 1797 as a result of the French artillery cores bombarding the city itself. Gloria Veneta was then taken as a prize by the French occupying forces following the death of the republic. As soon as Venice had fallen she lead a convoy of French ships sailing under a false flag down the Adriatic sea to capture the Venetian island of Corfu, the site of one of the most significant strongholds of the Venetian republic, and one that had repelled multiple invasion forces time and time again thanks to its impressive fortification structures. The convoy was filled with French troops who successfully disembarked in the harbour and went on to quietly occupy the fortifications all without firing a single shot, successfully capturing the Ionian islands for Napoleon by ruse. Now in French service, Gloria Veneta like Fama was renamed in honour of another French General, Pierre Banel, who had fallen in an attempt to take the castle of Cosserie on the 13th of April 1796. She was also, again like her sister ship taken back to Toulon, where she was repaired, refitted as a 64 and rearmed with French calibre guns. Her new armament was 26 x 18lb, 26 x 12lb, 12 x 6lb and 2 x 2 x 6lb chasers, again removing the rear most gun on the weatherdeck. After her refit, she became an escort ship protecting French shipping convoys and trade between the Southern French coastline and the towns of Corsica, where her speed and agility could be taken advantage of, protecting vulnerable merchant and supply ships against the powerful British navy. Banel continued to serve in her protective role for 2 years until she was taken back to Toulon again in november 1800, to be refitted to a support ship, the work was completed and on January 2nd, 1802 Banel joined the French Fleet under the command of Admiral Ganteaume to serve her new purpose patrolling the eastern Atlantic and western Mediterranean off the French and Spanish coastlines. However, sadly soon after taking up her new role, while patrolling with Ganteaume's Fleet off the coast of Algeria a violent storm hit on 25th of January 1802, and unable to weather the harsh conditions, with a reasonably fresh and inexperienced crew, Banel was wrecked off the coast of Oran. Gloria Veneta, sinking only 5 months after Fama had been lost in Egypt, having served the Venetian and French navy for just under 8 years combined. Anyway I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed researching and writing it. Like I said earlier I hope to do another post combining Le Stengel, Le Beyrand and Diamante, the 3 ships finished after the fall of the republic of Venice, and their history. Thank you for reading. Apologies its a big block of text with no pictures.

I have got myself another couple of Composition tables, one is for Mediterranean Galley fleets, the other is for comparing the ratio between fighting ships and cruisers (5th and 6th rates) its quite a hefty sum of information and will hopefully make some people happy here. This is my days work from being stuck at home while a plumber is replacing my water tank, judging by how much work I have actually got out the way I should have handymen over more often The First table will be the Mediterranean Galley table showing the gradual decrease of Galley usage over the age of sail, as riggings and hulls improved, galleys became somewhat superseded by various sailing ships and their responsibilities were taken over by things like frigates and corvettes, this shows their gradual decline. Mediterranean Galley Fleets 1650 1670 1700 1720 1740 1760 1790 1800 Venice 70* 60* 50* 40* 30* 20* 20* - The Ottoman Empire 70-100* 60* 30* 30* 15* 15* 5 0* France 36 25 42 15 15 10 0 0 Spain 30-40* 30* 30 7* 7 0 4 2 The Papal State 5 5 4 6 4 5 5 0 Malta 6 7 8 5 4 4 4 - Genoa 10 10* 6* 6 6* 6* 6* - Tuscany 5 4 3-4 2-3 2* 0 0 0 Savoy/Sardinia 2* 2* 2* 2* 4 0* 0 0 Austria 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 Naples - - - 0 4 3 0 0 Rough Totals 220-260 200 170 120 90 60 45 6 The * marks estimated numbers Here is a table that is probably more of interest to the people here though, its the Fleet Composition table, showing the ratio and percentage of Battleships (in this case 4th to 1st rates) to Cruisers (5th and 6th rates). Like my other tables I have done my best to create the most practical user experience. I hope this goes somewhat further to allow for better understanding of fleet compositions and where it puts navies and what ships they sailed in the grand scheme of things. Changes of Cruiser Amount in Fleet Composition Britain Ratio Battlefleet:Cruisers Britain % France Ratio Battlefleet:Cruisers France % Denmark Battlefleet:Cruisers Denmark % Sweden Battlefleet:Cruiser Sweden % 1651 54:43 44% 1660 76:78 51% 1661 11:6 35% 1677 76:24 24% 1674 95:33 26% 1685 108:19 15% 1688 100:8 7% 1689 112:33 23% 1702 130:45 26% 1700 114:26 19% 1700 32:9 22% 1700 39:10:00 20% 1720 27:10 27% 1715 36:14 28% 1715 29:13:00 31% 1739 124:51 29% 1745 28:8 22% 1745 24:8 25% 1753 132:78 37% 1750 50:26 34% 1777 142:102 42% 1774 64:37 37% 1780 78:67 46% 1783 197:175 47% 1786 67:77 53% 1785 32:18 36% 1785 26:17 40% 1793 78:98 56% 1805 199:222 53% 1805 20:14 41% 1805 13:12 48% 1814 50:36 42% 1825 110:118 52% 1827 34:34 50% 1849 68:89 57% 1847 21:31 60% I hope you enjoyed these two new tables, they are both taken with data from the books "Nelson's Navy: The Ships, The Men and the Organisation" Thank you for reading

I'm fairly sure its more that the most extensive ship plans are the ones at the Greenwich maritime museum, more than ships people recognise, while it does help to have famous ships that are visible today, that only goes so far. Part of what I enjoyed in the game was as a gateway to understanding ships of the time period. I had previously come from an area mostly looking at things like Galleys, Cogs and Early Galleons, mainly through the fact that I enjoy Venetian history as a total amateur. This game inspired me to learn more about Revolutionary and Napoleonic navies, and I am now excited about ships I never knew existed. I then went and tried to apply this new interest back to Venetian ships and shipbuilding and came back to attempt to add more to the game from what I have learnt, I would now be able to come up with a list of ships that would be fantastic in game, larger than the offerings we have from various navies other than Britain. Interestingly some of the most viewed topics on these forums are, Dutch Ship Collections (14,500), Venetian Ship Collections (13,500), Spanish Ship Collections (10,900) and American Ship Collections (10,800), which proves that there is quite some demand for some of the more curious choices. Also on the side note, thank you the compliment about Fama, hopefully a community would select her, we are in some desperate need for 4th rates, especially considered that they are now the most important class of ship when it comes port battles. This is perhaps the most concise way of the point I was trying to make originally, I have been trying to put some suggestions here and there showing proper balance between the ships, one of the most frustrating parts of the game for me is there are so many ships that are objectively better than others, and the fact all 3 1st rates all have an armour thickness of 75cm. I want to see more variety in ships, so you can really experiment and dive into the different ships I would happily see release delayed slightly, my issue isn't with the release time, its with the lack of variety the game has in its ship collection which don't really feel much different once you get out of frigates. I don't feel like I particularly need a new ship every patch but it will get to a point where actually suddenly throwing out a nice batch of various ships would keep things interesting and spiced up, its still a good thought to put it in the heads of those that have the power to actually consider that churning out some great ships in the month or two before full release would be something that needs doing, I also wish for a solid game first but like Intrepido says seeing a massive fleet composed of 1 or 2 ship designs is kind of sad to watch.

While I do agree with you, things need to be fixed there is this large need for additional content, Breaking things down again using "The Hopefully Comprehensive List of Ships In Game And Development" we currently have confirmed: 11 British Ships 6 American, with 1 in Development 6 French, 1 in Development 3 Russian, 1 in Development 2 Swedish, 1 in Development 1 Spanish, 1 in Development 1 German 0 Danish, 1 in development While this doesn't answer all questions, and sidesteps the chart very nicely presented to us by @van der Decken (sorry) it does give an easy overview, we are currently missing some various but important nations, for example like earlier the Dutch, Portugal, Venice (or other Italian states, such as Tuscany but Venice has the best examples of an Italian maritime power) and possibly some examples from the less maritime nations like Austria or The Ottomans. I know that there are plenty of resources for the other nations, I have personally provided a lot of the Venetian information, and when you consider that the 2nd Battle of Cape Matapan was both larger and just as decisive as Trafalgar its a shame that this kind of maritime impact can't be tributed with a ship or two in the game, especially as its a battle fought between the Ottomans, and the combined forces of Venice and Portugal, 3 nations that firmly have no ships at this time. I also know that community members such as Steel Sandwich has provided some fantastic information for the Dutch and others have done the same for their Nations of interest. I'd personally like to see a higher focus on more interesting ships from other nations. I'd even be prepared to suggest that the Devs delay release for a month to up the ship count significantly, because while we all want well rounded complimentary features, I think the game needs to make the most of the best part of it, which is the combat, which is made best by the variety and flavour of having as many diverse ships as possible be it from new nations, expanding small national rosters or allow for a different styles of play.

Now that release is looming over us its time to think about ships, the current crop of ships you are able to sail in the game is fantastic but sadly, not enough. If the game is thinking seriously about a publication in early 2017 there needs to be a dramatic expansion to the stock of warships we are able to get our hands on. As I see it, the things the game could do with most is an expansion into having an example ship from the various maritime nations of the time. Luckily we have most of these bases covered, but the game really lacks an example ship from various regions like Portugal, Italy and The Netherlands. Its not something that we need hundreds of, but an example ship design showing what a national maritime power could achieve, or showing off an example of the kind of ships they liked to produce. Thankfully there are more than enough resources posted to help the dev team realise this goal. As a general sum up, it would be great to see at least 8 possibilities for each of the Naval Ratings, which is generally met in the lowest tiers. If the topic "The hopefully Comprehensive List of Ships In Game and Development is to be believed there are currently" (as when writing this): 6 Trading ships, 2 in Development 7 Unrated/7th Rates 7 6th Rates, 2 in Development 11 5th Rates, 3 In Development 4 4th Rates, 1 in Development 2 3nd Rates, 2 in Development 2 2nd Rates, 3 in Development 3 1st Rates. Leaving us with 42 usable ships and around 13 more ships likely/confirmed in development As you can see the vast majority of ships are the ones you sail as a low level captain, with by far the best variety available in the 5th rates category, while this does cover quite a few early game ranks it would be great to see some ships that just aren't represented in the game yet, and where there are options it never hurts to have more. The most exciting ship added to the game so far for me was the Rattlesnake, mainly because it played so differently to the brig. I'd love to see more additional options of this kind of ship and the play style it promotes. For me the Glaring missing parts of the game right now are the ships missing from nations like Portugal, The Netherlands, The Italian States. When it comes to ships themselves we very much need ships spanning 4th to 1st rates allowing more options within the classes. Currently the most glaring choices that are missing are some more 1st rates, a 96-8, 90-94 and an 80 for the second rates, Some more 74's in General as the most typical ship it would be nice to see quite a few designs be it interesting or typical of a national navy of the period, possibly adding a few others say a 70 gun ship along the way too, 4th Rates are probably where this can get a bit interesting, being that its still quite open and in game, seems to mean anything from 52-68ish guns, I'd personally like to see one of the Napoleonic 50 gun 4th rates, and use this as a category to bolster our some fun an interesting choices for the so far unrepresented nations, there are some great resources in the shipyard too but this is possibly the most open class to really experiment and throw in something a bit unusual, perhaps even something from nations not so well represented at sea during this period. All in all to sum up, I think to properly stand up and stand out over time this game needs to have more ship variety at higher levels, this allows the game to stand up on its strongest mechanics, the combat and looks of each ship. I understand that development is a long process but I have also heard that modelling a ship is the smallest part of the effort, where the majority is programming and testing, but to give the game the right kind of draw I think we need at the very least 8 ships in each class, preferably over 10, especially in 4th rates. So my suggestion is to really ramp up the shipyards, and give us at least a token ship for the major nationalities, similar has been done for the Germans with Wappen Von Hamburg. Thank you For Reading

The best fighting game I have come across so far in life is Close Combat 2: A Bridge Too Far, the game is fast paced and excellent, anyone who hasn't tried it yet really should. Although sadly the game is pretty dated now and the newer releases aren't as on point. I'd fully recommend it to anyone looking for a wartime experience.

I wasn't saying they were exactly the same thing, the helicopter point is about pivots and points of force, then applying them more towards what people are seeing through the example of the police Pit manoeuvre, which is an option to spin out cars under pursuit, even if its not the true mechanics of what is going on in real life the example still stands with the reference I was trying to make. Historically small triangular sailed ships were used to pilot boats in and out of ports, as were rowed boats, I apologise if this wasn't as clear as it was intended to be, even if the force here is slightly different as a pull, not a push. The example still stands because it comes down to not being just about mass or sail area, but application of force, this is is why jibs, stay mizzen sails are much more important in turning than mainmasts, and when applied properly its not so much about the pure sail area, but localised forces between the force conducted possibly by the total sail area of the surprise, vs the restricted efficiency and usefulness of the Bucentaure's larger sail plan compared to the angle of the wind. So no, it shouldn't be impossible to push a much larger ship into irons, but it should be a difficult and precise application of force, pivots and vectors, and only possible by travelling downwind in comparison to your opponents as was already covered earlier in the thread. The current system is too forgiving, where you can manipulate a larger ship from anywhere that isnt the centre 3rd but removing these mechanics would make things less realistic, not more. Having experienced this kind of thing multiple before, its also quite easy to counter with proper application of manual sails and rudder.

It sounds possible to me depending on angles taken, its simple pivots, not to dissimilar to a tail rotor on a helicopter. It shouldn't be impossible to push a larger ship but it should certainly be tougher, T boning the bow or stern should work, and so should positions similar to American police and their Pitt manoeuvrer but the current system allows for ships almost in parallel to turn much larger ships at high speeds seems fairly unreasonable, although again not impossible. I feel like removing it from the game would take more out than gives but something needs to be looked at in a bit more depth. On historical sides, its not unusual for smaller ships to pilot larger ones into port with their smaller sail patterns, so the force is there, especially considering the various options in game for running on less canvas, and its not like in game the reward is there without the risk, if you get it wrong you become a very easy target for boarding, but then again boarding likely gives the desired outcome for the turning party anyway.

Happy new year to everyone, I hope it brings many great things to Naval action

Its been set high as a counter measure to people spamming first rates, The main problem with things as they are is it creates a huge issue with boarding, where you might easily lose half your crew. Its also fairly historical that over a lifetime of a ship its crew and maintenance would amount to around 80-90% of its cost. Sadly the game as a whole doesn't play very well for those who don't have long solid stretches of time to invest, to me its the heaviest down point off the game as a whole. On the upside its easy to roll in cash right now thanks to the broken economy, cap yourself an LGV and do a bit of trading and within an hour or two its very easy to make a million gold.

Could someone please help me work out the differences between L'Hermione, HMS Hermione and Santa Cecilia? I am having a hard time differentiating between them, my current understanding is that HMS Hermione and Santa Cecilia are the same ship but L'Hermione is different however they are both 32 gun 12 pounder frigates built around the same time. The whole thing seems a little sticky and messy for me, any explanations would be wholly appreciated, especially if they looked completely different.

Thanks Borch, If anyone sees it you can comment on it, then you can find a link to that comment and the video in the activity register on the drop down menu next to the security settings at the top bar. I have been refreshing my page looking for it to pop up again with no success so far.

I'm not sure this is the best place to post this but the Facebook game Ocean wars is using a video of gameplay from Naval Action to try and sell their game in a sponsored facebook post. They have also done this to Tempest previously. I believe this is copyright infringement. People have been pointing it out in the comments that the game isn't ocean wars and the assets are from Naval action. I tried to copy the video link but it just went directly to signing up for their game, which caused me to lose the video all together, so apologies but I have no visual evidence, I will keep an eye out for it happening again. I have spent the last hour or so trying to find the post again, but Ocean wars seem to hide their adverts unless they pop as a sponsored post directly. I Hope this Helps, Merry Christmas to the team.

The same channel just did another video people might be interested in

I bought into the pre steam alpha around this time last year, thank you for a great year in a great game. I am looking forwards to what will come for naval action in 2017, thank you for all the hard work that the mods, testers and development team have put in so far. Wishing you a very merry Christmas and happy new year to you and the team Admin, the same goes for everyone else in the community too.

I quite like the teardrop shape of the hull, she looks elegant to me. The bow keel reminds me of the similarly shaped La Muiron, which seemingly had similar historic performance to like that of a a rocket ship. She is on that same thought process that brought the Fama class fregata grossa. Her displacement is around 2300 tonnes, which when you compare to the Pluton class ships built in the Arsenal by France during their occupation, there is considerable difference, the Pluton ships built in Venice having a displacement of 2966 tonnes. In comparison to the Pluton class she is around 7 metres shorter and over a metre thinner at the waist, but capable of being packed with the same kind of punch. The capabilities of the last few decades of Venetian shipbuilding really fascinates me.

Look what I found while I was writing my post about the 1780/Laharpe ship post, these are part of the plans and lines for Stengel, taken by the Austrians following the capture in 1799. They may be of considerable interest to you @SteelSandwich. Enjoy

Another little house keeping link to the dedicated post for the "1780"/Laharpe.

The "1780" Class ship was a 70/74 gun Venetian Primo Rango (1st Rate) designed in 1780 by the architects Andrea Paresi, Andrea Chiribiri, Andrea Spadon and Iseppo Fonda as part of Angelo Emo's naval reform program started the same year. The ship was drawn up as a replacement for both the previous 70 gun Leon Trionfante class and the smaller 66 gun San Carlo Borromeo class which the two designs had been in service 64 and 39 years respectively. The "1780" was designed with the intention to being faster, more agile and tougher than its predecessors, in line with the contemporary naval thought under the Emo reforms which were focussed on modernising and changing the way the Venetian navy operated to best protect its mercantile interests, and to project Venetian naval power against its main threats from the Barbary States and Ottomans. The new "1780"s were the first major ship planned as part of these reforms, 4 were laid, however none were completed before Venice was occupied by France, then Austria. The 4 ships of the "1780 class" Laharpe, 70 guns, Laid in 1782, Completed by the French in 1797. Unnamed, 74 guns, Laid in 1786, Damaged by the French looting in 1797, Demolished by the Austrians in 1804. Unnamed, 74 guns Laid in 1790, Damaged by the French looting in 1797, Demolished by the Austrians in 1804. Unnamed, 74 guns, Laid in 1790, Damaged by the French looting in 1797, Demolished by the Austrians in 1802. Laharpe was named in honour of Amédée Emmanuel François Laharpe, a French Major General who was accidentally killed by a friendly fire mistake during Napoleon's Italian campaign in 1796 while he was pursuing Austrian forces in the town of Codogno. She was launched alongside the Fama class ship Stengel, as part of the French salvage programme launched in the Venetian Arsenal following their occupation in 1797, the design was modified slightly, taking away the poop deck and her 3 guns, while adding another gun port to the quarterdeck, leaving her as a 70 gun ship, instead of the originally intended 74. Laharpe spent the majority of her early years stationed at the French base in Ancona alongside Stengel, ironically the two classes serving together as they were designed and intended for by Angelo Emo in the 1780s. They were soon joined by Beyrand, another Fama class ship where they were prepared and sent on an expedition to relieve the siege of Corfu against the Russo-Turkish aggressors, however the small navy were forced to turn back after being spotted by the Austrian navy. The Austrian navy gave chase in an attempt to capture the three ships but were no match for the speed of the Venetian designs and Laharpe, Beyrand and Stengel made it safely back to Ancona, where she would stay until 1799. In 1799 Austrian Forces captured Ancona and Laharpe was taken back to Venice to help secure the Austrian occupation, she spent the next 3 years anchored in the Grand Canal, working as a floating outpost for the occupying Austrians, where she served as a powerful reminder and keeper of peace against the Venetian resistance. After her years serving as an outpost she was commanded by Karl Ludwig Johann Josef Lorenz (later Archduke Charles of Austria) to be converted into a prison ship, as the prisons of Venice were in a state of disrepair and prisoners were frequently escaping and so in december 1802 work began to refit Laharpe. After her refit, finishing in the spring of 1803 she was anchored in the San Marco Canal where she stayed until July 1804, where she underwent some maintenance, after which she was left anchored in the part of the Venetian Arsenal known as the "Novissima Grande", the largest basin of the complex until the second French occupation starting in 1806, she stayed in the Arsenal for a further 3 years and was eventually demolished there in 1809. Below is A painting of of Laharpe serving as a prison ship. Measurements: Length of Keel, 139 piedi, (48.33m) Length at Longest Point, 162 piedi, (56.33m) Width at Widest Point, 39 piedi, (13.56m) Armaments (Laharpe 70 Guns): 28 x 24lb (French pounds) 28 x 18lb (French pounds) 14 x 8lb (French pounds) Plans: Originals. Reproduction by Guido Ercole. Thanks For reading, I hope you enjoyed, as always let me know if anyone wants some more information.

As I promised, I have spent my afternoon processing the figures for Venice, sadly I don't have a huge bank of information talking about the Venetian Fleet wholly, and apart from the records dealing with the French captures after the Venetian surrender in 1797 its missing out the numbers for the Xebecs and Galleys. There are several historical mentions of Venice using their stock of Galleass, Galleys, Galliotts and Xebecs during its hostilities against the North African pirates between 1784-1792 and Venice kept an effective fleet of these types of ships throughout the late period of the Republic. Also during this time Venice Maintained a commercial fleet between 300-350 merchantmen, which facilitated Venice in being the strongest trader in the Eastern Mediterranean and Red Sea Regions. The important things to keep in mind following these charts are that the covered shipbuilding facilities at the Venetian Arsenal often meant that ships were constructed over long periods of time, some ships even spent over 50 years broken into parts, protected from the weather and finished off when they were required. The other things that are worthwhile thinking about is the naval reforms and shipbuilding programmes brought in by Angelo Emo, and his admiralty during the war mentioned above. I haven't sorted the individual ships into their classes, just the number of guns so for example there are 2 models each of the larger ships, The 70s consist of the Leon Trionfante class and the "1780" class, where as the 66s are San Carlo Borromeo Class, and Fama Class ships, where technically speaking the San Carlo Borromeo is a ship of the line, and the Fama class is a Fregata Grossa, so have quite different fleet roles. For more informations on the ships and models themselves please visit the thread in the shipyard dedicated to Venetian ships, I have also written some information around the Admiral/Naval Reformer Angelo Emo and the Venetian Arsenal should you be interested. I will leave some links at the bottom for those who may be interested. 1780 In Service Under Construction Total 70 5 7 12 66 5 5 40 4 0 4 38 1 0 1 Total 10 12 22 1784 In Service Under Construction Total 70 4 7 11 66 1 8 9 40 4 0 4 38 2 0 2 32 0 1 1 24 0 2 2 Total 11 18 29 1786 In Service Under Construction Total 70 4 5 9 66 1 8 9 40 4 0 4 38 2 1 3 32 0 1 1 24 2 0 2 Total 13 15 28 1790 In Service Under Construction Total 70 4 7 11 66 1 8 9 44 0 2 2 42 0 1 1 40 4 0 4 38 2 2 4 32 0 1 1 24 1 0 1 Total 12 21 33 1794 In Service Under Construction Total 70 5 6 11 66 3 6 9 44 0 2 2 42 0 3 3 40 4 0 4 38 4 0 4 32 1 2 3 24 1 0 1 Total 18 19 37 Ships Captured By France in 1797 Arsenal in Ordinary or Construction Arsenal in Service Piave Estuary Dalmatian Fleet Corfu Total Ships of the Line 9 1 1 0 3 14 Fregate Grossa 4 1 1 0 1 7 Fregate Leggre 7 1 1 0 4 13 Bombard 1 0 0 0 0 1 Galleys/Galleotts 1 3 7 13 *Unknown *24 Ceremonial Galley 1 0 0 0 0 1 Brig Cutter 2 1 2 0 0 5 Golette 0 1 0 0 0 1 Xebec 1 8 0 8 *Unknown *17 Felucca 0 4 0 9 *Unknown *13 Floating Battery 0 1 0 0 0 1 Sailed Gunboats 8 11 0 0 5 24 Rowed Gunboats 0 31 4 0 0 35 Total 34 63 16 30 *13 *156 The *Unknown is used where the Venetian fleet stationed at Corfu having learned the news of the surrender of Venice took their ships and evacuated, they also obscured and destroyed the records so as not to be recaptured and forced into service by the French, because of this its currently impossible to see the Venetian fleet in its entirety at the death of the republic, Corfu served as the largest naval station outside Venice and would have had a substantial fleet stationed there, so its likely there was a slightly larger sized fleet positioned here when compared to the Dalmatian fleet, probably consisting of around 40 ships, where its likely that again we see around 10 Galleys/Galleotts, 10 Xebecs and 10 Feluccas, however this is all speculative. Anyway I hope you enjoyed this second instalment of graphs and data. Thank you for reading, as I hinted earlier, I will post the links below.

I originally opened this topic to talk about the strength and changes to the composition of the royal navy, I have now edited it to hopefully become more of an open discussion, it would be fantastic to see more data on more navies to compare fully, if anyone has the time and resources to post more please do. I will work my way through the information I have and post some for Venice over the next few days, but would love to see what others can contribute for other nations, we seem to have a lot of love for the French, Dutch and US navy floating around these forums and it would be great to build up and compare our information with each other, its probably best to keep within the time period by the game if we can but by all means extend it out from the Napoleonic wars. I look forwards to seeing anything else people can come up with

I have a snippet from Spain but only the data from 1794 though, you might like the numbers from that even more. 1794 In Service Disarmed Total Ships of the Line 80-112 guns 14 6 20 68-74 guns 39 11 50 54-64 guns 8 1 9 Total Ships of the Line 61 18 79 Frigates 40-42 guns 5 1 6 30-36 guns 39 8 47 Total Frigates 44 9 53 Other Xebecs (14-36) 5 5 10 Corvettes (30) 2 0 2 Sloops (18-22) 6 1 7 Luggers (16) 1 0 1 Avisos (16) 2 0 2 Brigs (8-24) 21 0 21 Baladras (12-18) 2 0 2 Galleys (3) 0 7 7 Total Others 39 13 52 Total Warships 144 40 184 As you can see from above the Spanish fleet is almost half Ships of the line, this table shows the combative navy only, during this point the Spanish navy also maintained 43 auxiliary and support ships, and kept 6 more disarmed.

Apologies I forgot to state the source, its extracted from a couple of Robert Gardiner's books, mainly Warships of the Napoleonic Era, its a fantastic book and well worth the read. The information is really deep and well set out, the only drawback is the book is about 30x32cm so can be a bit unwieldy, especially as it has a couple of double page fold outs, leaving you with over a metre of paper to play with. I'd recommend buying it to anyone who doesn't have it already

So I have been doing some research today and I have written down the number of ships active in the royal navy during the Napoleonic wars, I thought I would share the tables with everyone here so they can see how the royal navy composition changed during the period. While there isn't data to compare every ship, the years are roughly similar. Anyway here are the tables, enjoy First Rates In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1793 1 4 5 1796 6 0 6 1799 4 2 6 1801 4 2 6 1805 6 1 7 1808 4 2 6 1811 5 2 7 1814 7 0 7 1815 0 8 8 Second Rates In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1793 4 12 16 1796 16 0 16 1799 15 2 17 1801 14 2 16 1805 11 3 14 1808 7 4 11 1811 8 4 12 1814 5 3 8 1815 2 5 7 80 Gun Ships of the Line In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1793 0 1 1 1796 5 0 5 1799 6 1 7 1801 5 3 8 1805 4 2 6 1808 7 0 7 1811 6 1 7 1814 1 4 5 74 Ship of the Line In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1793 18 40 58 1796 48 8 56 1799 41 8 49 1801 39 11 50 1805 30 13 43 1808 47 4 51 1811 56 6 62 1814 64 3 67 Large 74 Ship of the Line In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1793 1 2 3 1796 6 2 8 1799 17 3 20 1801 17 3 20 1805 19 5 24 1808 29 1 30 1811 24 4 28 1814 21 9 30 64 Ship of the Line In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1793 2 28 30 1797 28 2 30 1799 22 4 26 1801 21 6 27 1804 8 12 20 1808 19 2 21 1810 11 1 12 1811 9 0 9 1814 1 0 1 50 Gun Ships In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1793 7 5 12 1797 10 2 12 1799 10 0 10 1801 9 1 10 1804 7 3 10 1808 9 0 9 1810 7 0 7 1812 4 1 5 1814 2 2 4 18pdr Frigates In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1793 11 6 17 1795 36 0 36 1797 45 2 47 1799 46 4 50 1801 68 1 69 1804 57 7 64 1808 76 15 91 1812 98 9 107 1814 103 11 114 12pdr Frigates In Service In Ordinary/Repair Total 1793 21 23 44 1797 50 9 59 1799 45 13 58 1801 43 1 44 1804 22 11 33 1808 35 8 43 1810 32 3 35 1812 20 5 25 1814 11 0 11 9pdr Frigates In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1793 10 13 23 1797 20 3 23 1799 15 6 21 1801 10 1 11 1804 6 2 8 1808 8 1 9 1810 7 1 8 1812 3 0 3 1814 0 0 0 Post Ships 20-24s In Service In Ordinary/Repair Total 1793 5 7 12 1797 15 2 17 1801 21 2 23 1805 12 3 15 1808 21 2 23 1811 14 1 15 1814 25 4 29 Quarterdecked Sloops In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1794 32 1 33 1797 43 2 45 1799 38 0 38 1801 34 0 34 1804 19 2 21 1808 49 3 52 1810 54 2 56 1812 50 1 51 1814 43 1 44 Flush Decked Sloops In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1794 0 0 0 1797 10 0 10 1799 23 0 23 1801 22 3 25 1804 37 0 37 1808 27 7 34 1810 19 2 21 1812 12 1 13 1814 9 1 10 Brig Sloops In Service In Ordinary/Repairing Total 1794 18 2 20 1797 33 3 36 1799 37 0 37 1801 45 0 45 1804 33 0 33 1808 103 2 105 1810 169 0 169 1812 144 1 145 1814 155 3 158 Total Ships in Service First Rates Second Rates 80 guns 74 guns 74 guns (Large) 64 Guns 50 Guns 18pdr Frigate 12pdr Frigate 9pdr Frigate 20-24 gun Post Ships Quarterdecked Sloops Flush Decked Sloops Brig Sloops 1793 5 16 1 58 3 30 12 17 44 23 12 1794 33 0 20 1795 36 1796 6 16 5 56 8 1797 30 12 47 59 23 17 45 10 36 1799 6 17 7 49 20 26 10 50 58 21 38 23 37 1801 6 16 8 50 20 27 10 69 44 11 23 34 25 45 1804 20 10 64 33 8 21 37 33 1805 7 14 6 43 24 23 1808 6 11 7 51 30 21 9 91 43 9 52 34 105 1810 12 7 35 8 56 21 169 1811 7 12 7 62 28 9 15 1812 5 107 25 3 29 51 13 145 1814 7 8 5 67 30 1 4 114 11 0 44 10 158 1815 8 7 The things that jump out to me from this data is the treatment of large classes of 74 being noted down under a different section to the regularly sized ships, these tables also show the phasing out of the 64 gun ship of the line in favour for the larger 3rd rates and the inflationary pressures also retiring the 9 and 12 pounder frigates. The other thing that really jumps out to me is the explosion of Brig Sloops, going from just 20 in 1794 to 158 by 1814. My other interpretations is how few ships were in ordinary during the time frame, its almost the entire royal navy being active between 1795 and 1815. Anyway I hope you guys have fun dissecting the information, hopefully I will dig out some more in the future, although the only information I have immediately at hand is the stuff for venice, which covers a much longer time period but is a lot harder to dissect, and sadly doesn't have the entirety of the fleet, the data I have for Venice doesn't display the numerous Galleys or half galleys serving in the fleet, only the round ships.