Smuggler flag

[Anne Wildcat]

1 hour ago, Rigge1988 said:

That will make no difference. The problem at hand is LGV & LGV refit are good gankships and when they get chased they simply hide in your own ports.

The LGV is weaker than other ships of the same class, and I believe it has fewer crew as well. The nice part about it is that you can use it to enter enemy ports. Haven't used one since they require notes but I'm all for keeping LGV as is.  If you don't like people using them as raid ships and being able to enter ports, patrol your nation's ports. 

[Capn Rocko]

4 hours ago, Rigge1988 said:

How active were they in protecting their waters?

I understand you feel it's a good feature for your purposes. Yet an LGV isn't really intended for engaging in PVP. However I wish you could understand that because it's not a problem in one silent corner of the map the situation doesn't have to be the same in another. But I guess this is a problem that everyone has to experience to feel the need for a redesign.

They did not care, they were busy grinding up their own PB at Little River 

Per the second part of your comment: If the LGV is available for PvP marks, how is it not intended for engaging in PvP?

The LGV has the same firepower as a Niagara and turns like an Endymion. This severe disadvantage in PvP is countered by its sailing profile and the ability to enter enemy ports. If you prevent LGV and Indiaman from entering enemy ports under a smugglers flag, then you basically nerf trading in the entire game. I see plenty of traders smuggle 4 Indiamans inside Mortimer Town. Whats to stop them from ganking pirates leaving port? We are not complaining. 

My point is: If you have a problem with with 2 LGV's "ganking" your entire nation, then you have bigger problems my friend. Cheers o7

Edited November 10, 2017 by Capn Rocko

[Kloothommel]

2 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

LGV has the same firepower as Niagara. If you lose to LGV, maybe it's time to play another game.

You know it's not just firepower. points of sail, speed, handling. Not to mention the refit. Now if you want nice pvp, not just abusing the hell out of smuggler flag, anything aboved t-brig should not be able to smuggle.

[Landsman]

4 hours ago, Capn Rocko said:

If you have a problem with with 2 LGV's "ganking" your entire nation, then you have bigger problems my friend.

Really everything that needs to be said here...

[Hethwill]

Nor pro nor against the suggestion, just a observation - stopping them from going back to port, which is a valid concern, will change little. Players that engage in preying activities always have a plan B to adjust to ever changing circumstances.

[Lz3]

The poll here should be removed. It's a large group of people who don't like PvP and if they vote 'remove' then the chance of them being killed and losing stuff is smaller.

Then there's a large group of people who like PvP and if they say no to this they see more PvP opportunities.

And then there's the small rest who use the poll as it's intended - How does this add/subtract from gameplay experience? 

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Lz3

[Lz3]

12 hours ago, Rigge1988 said:

How active were they in protecting their waters?

I understand you feel it's a good feature for your purposes. Yet an LGV isn't really intended for engaging in PVP. However I wish you could understand that because it's not a problem in one silent corner of the map the situation doesn't have to be the same in another. But I guess this is a problem that everyone has to experience to feel the need for a redesign.

Players are using something that is, as you say, 'not really intended for PvP' and therefore has disadvantages. But why shouldn't they be allowed to accept those disadvantages and be allowed to still use it? With a normal LGV in battle it's just like attacking a trader, but the trader actually decides to fight you and not die running away. I don't see the issue, it's basically just a trader that has decided to attack you. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Lz3

[Hethwill]

I won't disagree with redii but I would expect the nationals that are veterans to at least share some common sense with the new blood

- don't fall into the trap of turning and burning game ( leads to boarding which is their strength ) with the LGVs. Keep your downwind, keep the beams open for rolling from the back broadsides, shatter their sides, shoot their sails, don't repair out of panic, keep speed and keep that routine.

Making them retreat is a victory.

 

[Hethwill]

Just now, rediii said:

You cant just tell some basics to a noob and expect him to do the right things in battle.

 

Also many new players, if not all, are not even on TS.

Give out the information. Even in nation chat, in private, in help.

Let them decide how they use it

If 1 out of 10 retains some good tips it is better than no tips given.

[Demsity]

2 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Give out the information. Even in nation chat, in private, in help.

Let them decide how they use it

If 1 out of 10 retains some good tips it is better than no tips given.

So we should just spam chat with this information every 5 minutes or so?

Seems like a very odd suggestion from a mod

[Anne Wildcat]

55 minutes ago, rediii said:

You cant just tell some basics to a noob and expect him to do the right things in battle.

 

Also many new players, if not all, are not even on TS.

 

Lets see it from a realistic standpoint. Why can a smuggler, once identified and followed by several warships, still enter the national port and be safe?

Redii, a noob wouldn't stand a chance against a vet in any ship.  They need to learn like everyone here has. But I agree with point two, once spotted, they shouldn't be able to enter, it is not realistic. Although I'm not sure how to go about changing mechanics for that. I go in enemy ports all the time in a traders Lynx and have been spotted so I shouldn't be entering either. If you see an enemy in LGV nearby, call out in your nation chat, we have tps (something also not realistic), use them. 

[Rigge1988]

I don't know what's up with your concrete minds. It's not the ganking LGV's ITSELF that is the problem. The problem is that they can just simply walk into a harbour if you wait for them outside. And the root to the problem as far as I can see is the smuggler flag.

It's a straight up broken mechanic. Don't defend it cause you like using it yourself.

We're together building a game that should encourage new players. If you want your version of naval action go taste the future on global server with an average of ~60 players.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Rigge1988

[Anne Wildcat]

So is there a new problem Riggie? Any trade ship can enter a port with smuggler for a long time now. 

[Anne Wildcat]

I don't know. I know people before wipe that used LGV + marines as raid ship.  Maybe the new refit has just made it more popular?

Edit:

I believe @CaptVonGunn used to sail around on the LGV, wait to be attacked, play stupid and then get boarded and win or it was someone else in Sorry at the time I was a member that did that. 

[Rigge1988]

8 minutes ago, Anne Wildcat said:

So is there a new problem Riggie? Any trade ship can enter a port with smuggler for a long time now. 

No Annie, this is what the thread is originally about.

[RaimundoJoe]

I do NOT understand why this is even a discussion. This is not PVP is just griefing other players. If anything, this is an "exploit". There is plenty of PVP to get in all the free towns, but these players are not interested in that. These, so called pvpers want to jump/gank weak unprepared players and then brag about it in forums on their Glorious "PVP" Battles.

We are going back to the time before reinforcements. At this moment only a few players are using this "exploit" and it allready caused a discussion, in a month more players will do the same and we are back to 200 players.

Here, u have a player, pointig out a problem and giving out solutions and for his troubles he gets jumped by the forum pvpers, great stuff.

We are going in circles.

[Rigge1988]

2 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

Nor pro nor against the suggestion, just a observation - stopping them from going back to port, which is a valid concern, will change little. Players that engage in preying activities always have a plan B to adjust to ever changing circumstances.

Will totally prevent them from jumping into port to hide. They would have to face the consequences of their actions. I would say you are wrong in your expectations.

[Rigge1988]

Just now, AxIslander said:

I do NOT understand why this is even a discussion. This is not PVP is just griefing other players. If anything, this is an "exploit". There is plenty of PVP to get in all the free towns, but these players are not interested in that. These, so called pvpers want to jump/gank weak unprepared players and then brag about it in forums on their Glorious "PVP" Battles.

We are going back to the time before reinforcements. At this moment only a few players are using this "exploit" and it allready caused a discussion, in a month more players will do the same and we are back to 200 players.

Here, u have a player, pointig out a problem and giving out solutions and for his troubles he gets jumped by the forum pvpers, great stuff.

We are going in circles.

I wouldn't really call it an exploit. It's more of an abuse. Please refer to the first post and please do place a, for you, suitable vote in the poll for this thread. Thank you!

[Jean Ribault]

8 minutes ago, Rigge1988 said:

I wouldn't really call it an exploit. It's more of an abuse. Please refer to the first post and please do place a, for you, suitable vote in the poll for this thread. Thank you!

 

This exactly.  Arguing on this thread that if you lose to an LGV you should be ashamed, or you don't know how to fight, or whatever, has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue pointed out.  It is exactly what Rigges says, it's a deliberate abuse of the game mechanics to get around the intended gameplay.  It's not cheating necessarily, but I dare anyone to get on here and say that the devs deliberately planned the LGV to be for use of people as warships with the extra uncanny ability to hide in enemy ports.  It's clearly not intended to be used that way, because warships cannot enter/leave enemy ports.  It's a workaround abuse by players who don't want to abide by the intended mechanics or rules.  LGV just happens to be a well rounded utility type ship.

However, I don't believe using an LGV equipped to fight is a bad thing.  Neither does Rigges in his proposal.  He is simply saying and I 100% agree, stop the abuse of the smuggler flag when you do intend to use it to fight.  Now here comes all the whining about how we can't find pvp....

Edited November 10, 2017 by Jean Ribault

[Hodo]

2 hours ago, rediii said:

a lgv in the hands of a pvp player is not a trader and its very easy to kill pve players with it.

I wouldnt call it a disadvantage to use it. Only has advantages

A T-Snow in the hands of a PVPer can obliterate most PVEers.   And the T-Snow has almost the same firepower, bow and stern chasers, and a good sailing profile... oh and it turns better.

1 hour ago, Demsity said:

So we should just spam chat with this information every 5 minutes or so?

Seems like a very odd suggestion from a mod

Currently on EU, pirate chat, I might see something said every 5 to 10 minutes during EU primetime.  Unless someone is talking trash or crying about something.  

[Hethwill]

Sure. The removed smuggler status if attack anyone is a good option. It is probably better than removing the smuggler option al'together. Not even putting that at odds.

Just stated the fact that in no universe that will deter raiders from planning cruises from further away, attack and disappear into the mist.

Also, if I would be a greedy fellow I know if I keep a port open-to-all the raiders will use it to buy repairs and sell the captured goods, so... what then ?!

There's a lot to be said about this.

It is also important to note, as a side thing, that all three new nations specifically state they are PvP. It is perfectly and clearly written in the nation choice card.

[Rigge1988]

It's still not about trader ships going for pvp. It's about them hiding after the battle so no one can catch them. They are untouchable once they are inside a harbour.

You can't use smuggler flag on a warship.

But you can on an LGV.

And an LGV in the hands of a good PVP player is still as capable as a warship in the hands of the average player.

BUT the LGV can dock just about ANYWHERE as long as they have the smuggler flag enabled.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Rigge1988

[Hodo]

Just now, Rigge1988 said:

It's still not about trader ships going for pvp. It's about them hiding after the battle so no one can catch them. They are untouchable once they are inside a harbour.

And this is why I suggested, the combat timer like Eve Online.

If you engage in combat (shoot at someone) or in this case you initiate the tag on someone, you can not enter port for a set amount of time after leaving battle.  

Or it could be....

If you initiate a tag on someone your smuggler flag is disabled for 5 minutes, after you leave the battle.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Hodo

[Rigge1988]

4 minutes ago, Hodo said:

And this is why I suggested, the combat timer like Eve Online.

If you engage in combat (shoot at someone) or in this case you initiate the tag on someone, you can not enter port for a set amount of time after leaving battle.  

Or it could be....

If you initiate a tag on someone your smuggler flag is disabled for 5 minutes, after you leave the battle.

Wouldn't that still be an advantage as they can run around for say 5 minutes and then dock up and come back?

What I suggest is they have to run back to neutral/national or free port to enable it again.

A player in an LGV engaging others in combat hardly have any intentions of trading which the smuggler flag was intended for.

[Hodo]

Just now, Rigge1988 said:

Wouldn't that still be an advantage as they can run around for say 5 minutes and then dock up and come back?

What I suggest is they have to run back to neutral/national or free port to enable it again.

A player in an LGV engaging others in combat hardly have any intentions of trading which the smuggler flag was intended for.

That would work.  Disable the Smuggler flag if they initiate the tag.