Prevent Basic Cutters from PvP

[Bouzioune]

By removing basic cutters from pvp, you remove new players from pvp. How would you rectify this in your proposal? 

[Valdez]

I agree a free ship that costs nothing shouldn't be used in PVP (still attackable in PVP) though.  But only small ships, lynx, cutter, ect.  Reason being then people could abuse a ship that can never be hurt in PVP to ferry cargo around that's small but highly valuable.  There has to be a balance for it.  That wouldn't be too exploitable.

[ajffighter86]

By removing basic cutters from pvp, you remove new players from pvp. How would you rectify this in your proposal? 

 

Start a third type of mission:

example:

 

"Large battle"

"Small battle"

"free cutter battle" (or whatever) limited to basic cutters

 

Sorry I read it again and realize you're talking about open world PVP and not the missions that are entered from ports. That's a tough one.

 

I don't want to do anything that would discourage new players from giving the game enough time to get into it before putting it back down. But yeah once you can afford to get out of the free cutter, and have the rank, you really should. The only reason they're in the game is so that you don't get stranded without a ship and no money and have to start all over. What was supposed to be used as a dire resort is now being abused as a matter of convenience.

 

If you really like the cutter then buy the non-basic one and assume the risk like everyone else. That way we'll separate the players who honestly like the cutter from the ones who just want to keep harassing people with a free ship.

Edited February 1, 2016 by ajffighter86

[Stix]

It is absurd to allow free ships to pvp, especially a ship as capable as a cutter, we all know what group of 3-4 cutters can do. So many solutions to this problem, pick one, any one! Just don't allow pvp in free ships

[SyberSmoke]

As a new player I like the idea proposed by the moderator, with one exception, the guns.  Instead of limiting then to their 10th class guns, allow the basic to have access to 9th class also.  May be adding in a 8lb Carronade.  Then it could be renamed to the "Training Cutter".  This would give new players to marginally better firepower and range options from the 10th Class weapons without causing the ship to be a dominating zerg.

 

This would separate it from the Cutter (allowed better guns) but still give the players in them a chance to defend themselves if they are set upon by a player in a 7th rate looking for an easy kill.

[Coastie7]

I don't believe the answer is to ban any ship from PVP. I think the strength of the Basic Cutter is what needs to be discussed; it is too OP. It needs to be nerfed significantly. As a new player, I have no reason to buy a cutter or a lynx. And for that, new crafters have no incentive to build them.

 

Nerf the basic cutter and adjust the Midshipmen missions accordingly.

[Leto]

I think its imperative this is fixed. This allows any group of players near a neutral town to be unbeatable, and is game-breaking.

 

This happened to me yesterday, I was getting rid of a pirate fleet raiding British from a neutral port, we beat them several times and they kept coming until we just had to steer clear. They were abusive in the chat, saying things like "You're losing an economy war F*heads, we've got free ships" and so forth. It also doesn't help that it was getting boring by the 4th time we beat them. This was obviously game-breaking to my fleet, we just had to warn people in the chat not to approach that area. 

 

I would propose:

1. Don't allow players to enter PVP in a free cutter if they have sunk in the past 3-4 hours. 
2. Give free cutters only one durability, so that they at least lose cannons, etc. 

3. Sufficient nerfs to the free ship relative to the average cutter that actually, realistically discourage its use and make people buy one.

> It would also be an asset to the game if player made low-level ships were bought and used.

[Ghroznak]

What about making Basic Cutters only able to fight other Basic Cutters in PvP?

 

For fighting players in something other than a Basic Cutter they would need to use a captured ship, buy a ship or craft a ship, even if it's a grey Cutter.

 

Another benefit to this would be for the crafted Cutters to actually have a purpose in the game other than being disposable ships that get crafted and broken down for parts.

[Jim Bligh]

What about making Basic Cutters only able to fight other Basic Cutters in PvP?

 

For fighting players in something other than a Basic Cutter they would need to use a captured ship, buy a ship or craft a ship, even if it's a grey Cutter.

 

Another benefit to this would be for the crafted Cutters to actually have a purpose in the game other than being disposable ships that get crafted and broken down for parts.

 

Keeping the Basic cutter with a zero price tag and adding one durability solely for tutorial learning, limited to NPC shipping size-class to attack/board and PvP with equivalent Basic cutters only.

 

Totally agree.

 

There needs to be a drive for the economy limited for players who have spent the gold in buying or crafted a ship to be able to PvP with a player who has Bought/Crafted/Captured a ship.

Basic cutters need to be taken out of this equation of ganker style play, with a needs to be able to stops with game mechanics Basic cutters entering a battle where there are ships that have a price tag payed/crafted by players.

[WilsonMG]

+1.  Restrict Basic Cutters from open-world PvP.  It would give people a reason to use the other Class 7's that are currently pointless for catching other gaff rigs or square rigs fleeing beam reach.

 

I would also support all Basic Cutters having only 1 durability point as well so that they would be more costly to lose in Small Battles.

[Joe Spivey]

Why not come at the problem from the other direction? Make it not worthwhile for a free cutter to engage in PvP against bigger ships by making bigger ships invulnerable to the fire from free cutters. That way the new players still get to PVP, just not against the bigger boys until they have their training wheels off. Even it out by making it no XP for bigger ships shooting up free cutters.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Joe Spivey

[Belinik]

yeah something needs to be done with  basic cutter fleets rushing into pvp and risking nothing vs people who got a ship built and then loose dura to someone with zero to loose, they need to be limited in what-how long they should be viable to use for people

[PG Monkey]

Just restrict basic cutters to AI and other basic cutters..or at least teleport them back to their capital if they sink

[jpjchris]

Basic cutters normally dont go to far normally, I agree they have nothing to lose but they are so small you should be able to run being they aren't very fast nor powerful, it doesn't matter what ship your in if its a zerg and your 1 person run. But in total forbidding basic cutters from pvp is stupid sorry.

 

It's absolutely more than possible to outrun even the most powerful ships in a Cutter....it just takes manual sailing as well as smart positioning prior to the end of the targeting counter.

 

Noobships have just as much right to engage others as the big guys! Restricting new players like this isn't necessary.

[akd]

I don't believe the answer is to ban any ship from PVP. I think the strength of the Basic Cutter is what needs to be discussed; it is too OP. It needs to be nerfed significantly. As a new player, I have no reason to buy a cutter or a lynx. And for that, new crafters have no incentive to build them.

Nerf the basic cutter and adjust the Midshipmen missions accordingly.

Its greatest strength is that it is free. People won't care if you give it less firepower or less HP because they are most likely there to just ram or try to flip people anyways. The existence of free ships with this much utility deeply devalues everything up to Brig, or arguably even Navy Brig and Snow.

It is fundamentally unfair and game-breaking to give people free ships that they can use to exploit mechanics and make people with paid-for ships lose their investment, largely independent of skill or anything resembling Age of Sail combat. When it comes to PvP, free ships are just tickets to grief. If they go down same path with premium ships, PvP will be ruined. The whole logic that it is fair because they will not be quite as good as the best paid-for ships is flawed because it presumes players will use them the same way as paid-for ships. Naval Action EA, a.k.a Ramming Action has proven this false beyond a doubt.

No free ships in PvP, or all free ships in PvP. There is no in between. There should be a third event battle that is for basic cutter / yacht only. That is where new players can learn the PvP ropes or people can get a quick no-cost PvP fix. No one needs to be able to do OW PvP in a free cutter, either by attacking other players, getting drawn into a PvP instance, or joining a PvP instance. I'd be fine if this came with additional protections, e.g. you cannot be attacked in a basic cutter at all within a certain distance of the capital (so new players can carry on with missions totally unmolested at their starting port). Also, costs for first level ships need to come down, so a player can get out of basic cutter and into lynx or cutter for less. A few small battles or one day of beating up AI should be sufficient to buy a first level ship.

No one gets stuck. You will always have an option to get from point A to point B or to earn money in short course to buy the most basic paid-for ship. We used to have to pay for our starter ship (for repairs or if we lost 5 durability points). It was made free because people would sometimes get stuck. Free ships only need sufficient utility for someone to not get stuck and unable to progress.

[PG Monkey]

Let them pvp against other basic cutters..or else they could just park outside your ports and spy on you with no way to chase them off

[akd]

I would say they should remain attackable by any ship within BR limits, except in "home" waters. Basically, game should say "here is a free ship, learn the basics, make a little money around your port, but get into a real ship before venturing out into the real world." Game could even provide a one-time, first-level "graduation" mission that would provide a larger chunk of change sufficient to buy your first ship.

[maturin]

Removing the six pounders or a pair of guns would accomplish this immediately.

[akd]

No it wouldn't. Their greatest utility is in their use as suicide, lolz vessels. Half the time they don't even use guns, and if they do and start to lose the gun fight, they immediately ram or try to flip. Very sad to see this happen to a new player fighting hard in his first paid-for ship, especially when the players in cutters / yachts are veterans (but that doesn't really matter as it sucks just as much no matter who is doing it). It's no longer considered even an option to bring anything but a cutter / yacht into small battle events, and the griefers are quickly starting to figure out the no-risk fun they can have by bringing packs of free cutters to areas where there are lots of new players.

And even if you did cut the firepower down, you are looking at 20,000+ gold difference between free and a paid-for ship for only a tiny incremental upgrade in firepower (or no upgrade at all in case of the Lynx).

[tipsypo]

I've just joined in the past two weeks though I see the issue with these Basic Cutters indeed. However might I just query what even is the point in both the Cutter and Basic Cutter existing? Remove the Basic Cutter just provide the Cutter in the NPC stores on an set price, as an example £15000.

 

Though provide an 100% discount on them to any player that meets these criteria;

 

1. Midshipman

2. Ensign

3. Less Than £15000 Gold An No Other Ships

 

And provide an 100% discount on their repairs to any player that meets these criteria;

 

1. Midshipman

2. Ensign

3. Less Gold Than Repair Price

[Meraun]

they have same cannons as snow brig or mercury... class 8... so that means 2 cutters have same firepower as class 6 ships. Not the first time i'm being a witness of 20-25 cutters just ganking and having fun by attacking renommee or other ships... yes u can ram them but have u played the game ? try to catch those little bustards while u have a renommee . Theres no point for me to fight them coz i know that enemy will lose nothing but i will...

 

i dont know about you but my mercury has guns-class 5...