Map Tracking

[Van Valkenburg]

Finally, if you really want even more, the only thing else to navigate and fitting the game would be a small sextant simulator, hard to handle (as i've heard it was in reality) due to simulated rolling of the ship and and not perfect equipment.... You could use this/enter that minigame or whatever it will be, only at noon and the weather will be considered. So if you are in a storm, there is no chance to see the sun and get your location. And if a storm is gone you have to deal with the waves...

 

 

I'm not an opponent of manually navigating on charts, but I'm also wary of the implementation of a "minigame" that allows it. It needs to be something quick to help you get your general bearings, otherwise you'll get tunnel vision in calculating things and either hit an island or get surprised by foes. The speed of open world travel in this game is much faster too; mariners in their day had plenty of time to use their instruments and apply their skills because they weren't zinging along like we do in-game.

 

By the way, we use electronic charts on my ship and computers do most of the algebra for us, but I've met and learned from folks who still know the art of celestial navigation. It's pretty fun to walk out to the bridge-wing with a sextant. You get a feel from it that you simply cannot obtain from clicking about a screen!

[ObiQuiet]

The only thing i'd like to have is a few tools on the map itself  :

 

A compass you can move above the map.

A ruler able to draw lines on the map.

A pencil tool to add some personal notes on the map.

 

* both compass in map and in game being a little more detailed with more bearing degrees indicated on them than now.

 

Check out our work at tdamap.com .  It is close to what you want.   You can now add one or more ship marker, and it will draw the lines from your position.    It's not perfect, but making it so would take away battle time.

 

For personal annotations, I suggest using one of the many, many screen cap / annotation tools that are around. 

[Ruthless4u]

I hope there will never be position on map. It would be as driving with car GPS navigation. Efficient? Yes. Fun? No, you don't look around, you just watch the small display. You don't know the cities you are passing. You never get lost. Boring. Historical.

The camera in OW kills any fun I have with sailing, map not showing position is a non issue.

[McDeth187]

Although I 100% that there should be no 'GPS' feature, not being able to mark the map AT ALL is ahistorical.  At the same time, not even being able to dead reckon your position based on the sun/stars is pretty lame.  I would be 100% on board with some type of simulation of a sextant and a true representation of the moon/stars that would allow you to simulate the use of a sextant so that at least you could get your latitude, and then some type of gustimate formula based on your speed that would allow a rough estimate of your current position.  That position would then be marked on the map, and stay on the map until you erased it, so that you could at least see the course you're taking.

 

Being able to guess your position and mark it on the map twice a day would be sufficient to allow for somewhat accurate navigation and not be too noob unfriendly.

[Mansen]

No GPS marker, but I'd love to be able to drag and plot out a course with an estimated time of arrivel given optimal conditions. Helps you stay sane on longer routes.

 

Doesn't have to appear in the OW viewport as a guidance, just a pre-planned trip from a port to another port based on your maximum knots.

[Kanay]

Check out our work at tdamap.com .  It is close to what you want.   You can now add one or more ship marker, and it will draw the lines from your position.    It's not perfect, but making it so would take away battle time.

 

For personal annotations, I suggest using one of the many, many screen cap / annotation tools that are around. 

 

Thanks, I'll try it this afternoon, might become handy even if I'm not found of chrome based browsers for them " performances " and few other things.

 

I started to take captures of the in-game map full zoomed and need to put all pieces of the puzzle together to create a giant picture map that i will leave opened in Gimp so i will be able to draw myself a compass on a layer and then add annotations and best bearing angles routes on some other layers.

 

Not sure if a full scale map picture exists already, especially looking for one having the islands reliefs represented that could help a lot in game, didn't searched much for now, all this takes time and for now i spend most of my free time in the game itself but that's something i will have to do at some point, already doing a lot of work by collecting produced and consumed goods and the prices variations in various ports all around with all infos reported on a sheet to optimize my trading revenues.

 

Ideally i'd like to have a handy map like in Silent hunter games directly in game but for now I'll have to go this way until they add something better directly in game.

 

Thanks a lot for the link, I'll try it and hopefully it will help me to stay at open seas for more than 3-4 days and make longer travels than now without being too worried about being completely lost guessing in the in game map what exact bearing i have to take due to the lack of compass there .

[Terox]

why dont we just have satellites , gps and radar too.

Navigation is part of the game.

Navigation aides that were available in those days could/should be made available in the game but have a high price for the upgrade.

Coastal ships shouldn't be able to afford them, they used to navigate by keeping eyes on the shore line, thats how it should be done here.

Ships can and should get lost, strong winds , strong current blowing you of course was a thing then, it should be reflected in the game.

 

I'm all for hardcore sailing sim. lets not make it arcadey, You have World of Warships if you want that.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Terox

[LeBoiteux]

why dont we just have satellites , gps and radar too.

Navigation is part of the game.

Navigation aides that were available in those days could/should be made available in the game but have a high price for the upgrade.

Coastal ships shouldn't be able to afford them, they used to navigate by keeping eyes on the shore line, thats how it should be done here.

Ships can and should get lost, strong winds , strong current blowing you of course was a thing then, it should be reflected in the game.

 

I'm all for hardcore sailing sim. lets not make it arcadey, You have World of Warships if you want that.

Moreover, NA is far from being an "hardcore sailing sim" : with a compass, teleportation, time compression, an enclosed OW, lots of ports and islands, you can't get lost for long.

[Captain Obido]

So if I may try to sum up the discussion:

Some want harder tracking/navigation, some want it to stay the way it is, some want it to become more or less easier up to the point when you maybe could activate some auto navigator sailing for you.

The possibilitys to make navigation easier range from an editable/drawable map, bought ship upgrades, or even hired navigators and more.

The opinions on what to do or not are differ for nearly each single player and we can discuss until the end of days.

Let's say it's simply a matter of difficulty for sailing in OW and it's up to the devs to set the level they want. And I think they now have a lot of suggestions to vary as wished by them.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Captain Obido

[Doogerie]

maybe a course to steer tool that would work i think that would work with like sale NE to long x and lat x

Edited January 24, 2016 by Doogerie

[Epic_Enforcer]

I have just started playing this and I like the map in game as opposed to my desk.  But add a drafting tool to make it better and not too unreal.  A straight line with an arc of 20 degrees or so and an eraser.  Click a start point then drag the arc what ever distance and direction you want.  Show the numbers and course direction, then draw a few more lines to plot the whole trip.  This would replace the divider and straight edge that would have really been used.  This will only provide distance and course information on the map for you to follow or lay out how you got lost.  We will need to track our position by keeping a time, course and speed table on our desk and draw the lines based on that.  Anything more shouldn't be necessary.  Don't add anything to indicate where you are to the map.  The map should be a reference to glance while at sea or sort out where you messed up.  I am not sure a navigator is necessary until we have to sail beyond the current map.  The arc is because you wont actually get the course exactly and may want some idea as to how far you could be off.  The arc also would indicate which way is forward along the path.

[NiMiTz]

I actually wish there was a tracker.

 

Me and some of my friends tried sailing to the tiny island at the North-Eastern tip of the map. 

 

We sailed for 2 hours but couldn't find it, nor did we know how close/far we were from it. 

 

It was really frustrating and obviously a bad experience. 

[ObiQuiet]

Being able to determine a position by taking noon sights would be nice for times when one is away from land for a while. 

 

The map at tdamap.com now does this.

[Dalriaden]

Navigation is incredibly simple, get your bearing when you're leaving port sail till you hit land, look at your map till you find the terrain features you're near then figure out the direction you need to go. Unfortunately even in the real world land nav is a dying skill. I wouldn't mind being able to get an estimated time from a port to another port or something though. 

[Siegfried]

A workarround:

 

Press F11 and look the coordiantes and compare with community maps coordinates grid.

 

Or quick rule:

X is horizontal and Z is vertical.

The center point 0,0 is just South/West of Jamaica (Savanna la Mar). The limits are -800k in West (mexico Coast), +800k to East (Barbuda), +800k North (US coast and Bermuda) and -640k South (Colombia and Maracaibo Lake).

[Captain Longbeard]

The only thing i'd like to have is a few tools on the map itself  :

 

A compass you can move above the map.

A ruler able to draw lines on the map.

A pencil tool to add some personal notes on the map.

 

* both compass in map and in game being a little more detailed with more bearing degrees indicated on them than now.

 

All those tools working a bit like in Silent Hunter series games for those who know.

 

I'm not sure at 100% but i believe but most Captains used to add personal notes on maps, after a while in game we will be able to have some paths drawn for our regular trading paths for example, with relatively accurate bearing angles, of course it won't be perfect as the winds will often forces you to move from the ideal path but it will help a lot while staying somewhat realistic ( from my novice point of view, feel free to correct me if i imagine things wrong ).

 

I also like the idea expressed above of a Navigator crew member able to determine your position once a day, more or less accurately depending the skills of the navigator hired for your ship, this will allow us to correct our course once a day during long travels.

 

This will add a very exiting dimension to the game for me.

That would be amazing. I believe you'd really get the feeling that the map is an actual map like they used back in the days. And indeed, drawing your own lines on the map would be very nice, but maybe the maps will be print screened and then its easier for others to find their way around, without actually having to sail there first.

[AKPyrate]

 

A workarround:

 

Press F11 and look the coordiantes and compare with community maps coordinates grid.

 

Or quick rule:

X is horizontal and Z is vertical.

The center point 0,0 is just South/West of Jamaica (Savanna la Mar). The limits are -800k in West (mexico Coast), +800k to East (Barbuda), +800k North (US coast and Bermuda) and -640k South (Colombia and Maracaibo Lake).

 

 

Of course, hopefully this feature will go away when the game is complete.  It is a work around for now, but hopefully it is not used for navigation by many players long term.  Really, the navigation is pretty simple as is, and if you're trying for a long voyage, it would have been uncommon to get a perfect landfall anyway.  It's also possible to just 'island/port hop' from one place to another.

[Tremor]

give us a marker !

 

and for the others : make it an option you can disable.

[OlavDeng2]

give us a marker !

 

and for the others : make it an option you can disable.

if it was single player, i could agree however this is multiplayer and it should be an even playing field, so no, i dont think the devs should do that.

[Ampen]

give us a marker !

 

and for the others : make it an option you can disable.

 

 

if it was single player, i could agree however this is multiplayer and it should be an even playing field, so no, i dont think the devs should do that.

 

Well, if some players want the hardcore mode, and others don't want it, what would be the issue with making it an option you could disable? 

 

I'm pro some kind of aid, even though I myself manage to get around the map in its current state, but here's my reasoning:

The open world is strategic, in the sense it's behind the tactical parts of the game. It's movement on the open map that's behind whatever PvP we will get. As such, there should be in some way tools to aid in that, so the tactical aspects of the game, ship-to-ship combat, flourishes. I'm not asking for a GPS tracker, but something that give a hint on your somewhat whereabout would help in forming up with groups on the open sea as well as somewhat streamlining travel for groups to destinations.

 

As someone mentioned earlier in this post, I suppose it was Somerset they were heading to, they got lost, and there is a risk for that when on the open sea with no land in sight, and really, what's the point with that? Does it promote gameplay?

 

Finally, people of this age were competent in sailing and navigation in a sense most of us have difficulties understanding. Even though storms could tear up fleets and send ships off course, they still managed to get on target even sailing over the Atlantic.

 

edit: As i Said, I'm not looking for a GPS, I've suggested something like this.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Ampen

[Vandarix]

I'm all for map tracking as long as it's only on the pve server.. Otherwise No.. You don't get a little marker irl to show where you are.. Oh, wait nm you do now days. Forgot people need their hand held when doing anything now.

 

Adding an option to have it enabled and disabled isn't viable for pvp servers b/c then the only option is to have it enabled. It's one or nothing the game either sticks to its hardcore roots or doesn't.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Vandarix

[Ampen]

I'm mainly concerned about player retention, and belive there's a difference between hardcore/steep learning curve and plain tedious tasks. A learning curve, also a steep one, can be a challange, something that motivates people, while something tedious in time will wear them down. Open sea travel for me is nothing else than something that's there to support the RvR and PvP mechanics in the game, and can either serve as just support, or be tedious and as such add that to RvR and PvP as well.

 

Sure, for the "tru hardcore playaz" tedious might be a thing, but if we talk player retention, my guess is that tedious tasks will reduce player retention, and that it will boil down to a Pareto principle thing. Challanging stuff = 80% retention after 3-6 months, tedious stuff = 20% retention after 3-6 month.

 

Of course, only the devs will see the answer on this. But if we're ending up with a 20% retention, with this big map it's going to be a very empty space.

[Kanay]

Unless they add another server where it is allowed for all, a kind of more easy server where players who want this kind of features will be forced to play, i am against having a tracker on map in actual servers.

 

I however still really want tracing tools, precise compass and pencil o add annotations on the map. Yesterday we made the long trip from French capital to Louisiana and after the first step i tried to calculate time to travel distance.

 

I have a map of the world opened in gimp with a kind of compass as layer , i measured the distance in pixels from starting point to the first step landing point, this step took me 2h35 to do, then divided the time in minutes by the number of pixels, then did time in minutes / pixels calculus, was 155mn  / 4570px , gave me average travel time per pixels.

 

Then tried to estimate the travel time for the next travel step and it was almost pin point with a margin of 2 minutes, due to winds changes, done this for the next two steps and it was really nice to see that it was really accurate. 

 

I had estimated the time to travel from Tumbalo to Terrrebone to 62 minutes using this method, and it took me exactly 60 minutes to do it, was really pleasant and fun to do this, sadly it had to be done in Gimp but i really wish we will have some tools added to the map ( a more refined one too if possible )  and a more precise compass plus a  ruler bit like in Silent Hunter games series so we will be able to do such things directly in game.

[AKPyrate]

Well, if some players want the hardcore mode, and others don't want it, what would be the issue with making it an option you could disable? 

 

I'm pro some kind of aid, even though I myself manage to get around the map in its current state, but here's my reasoning:

The problem with just having an option to 'turn it off' is that it gives the people who have the map tracking on an advantage.  Therefore, while I might wish to navigate a bit more crudely, I won't because I don't want to put myself at a disadvantage with no reward except feeling good that I can do it.

 

Personally, I'm not against a few extra rudimentary navigation tools and being able to interact with the chart a bit either, but I am firmly against a ship tracker doing all the work for us.  What's the fun of exploration then?

Edited February 6, 2016 by AKPyrate

[Ampen]

The problem with just having an option to 'turn it off' is that it gives the people who have the map tracking on an advantage.  Therefore, while I might wish to navigate a bit more crudely, I won't because I don't want to put myself at a disadvantage with no reward except feeling good that I can do it.

 

Personally, I'm not against a few extra rudimentary navigation tools and being able to interact with the chart a bit either, but I am firmly against a ship tracker doing all the work for us.  What's the fun of exploration then?

 

While I do understand your point and can see the charm of figuring out headings and such, I actually fail to see what getting lost is exploring?

Explorers knew their bearing and position, they just didn't know what was ahead of them.

 

Here it's the other way around, you know your surroundings and the layout of the area, but you don't know for sure where you are.

 

As I've said earlier, I don't want a GPS, I've suggested a navigator that would give you a general idea of your whereabouts, I would be fine with some tools and map interaction as well, but as it's now we're restricted to 13th century navigation (or in case of the chinese, even earlier).

 

I've managed to get around though, so clearly it is enough as it is to be able to get around the map. My issue though is that I want a very crowded sea, and even though servers are limited at the moment, once they grow bigger, I belive the current system is something that can have a big impact on new players, in a negative way.

 

If the combat is difficult and skill based I think that's a challenge and good enough for those coming to this game, getting lost getting there though I think is not.