Arcade or Simulation, the poll

[Sweetdeal]

I am happy, that the community voting for "Realistic" Battles. 

[redpiano]

I'm a bit of a weirdo, I really like games that have flashy, interesting, fun to play with physics and such. So I don't really mind if the game were to be full blown 100% ultra realism, but only if it has something to play with along the way, whether it's interesting and exciting weather like storms, big swells, things to navigate through, stuff that makes you pay attention or you die or just mechanics and physics that are or feel dynamic, meaning: dealing with rigging and all the ins and outs of sailing, any technical aspects, actual true navigation or realistic targeting and trajectory calculating if that was a thing on broadsides, I don't really know to be honest, but basically if it's going to be realistic to the point of being boring, it has to have things to play with like that, things that I can spend hours learning and then hours toying with and perfecting. But there does have to be some flavor in it.

 

The only aspect of complex simulation games of today I actually dislike is that they're all very dry and cold feeling, they focus too much on the realism, modeling of systems and things like that and they completely leave out things like quality animation that looks dynamic and exciting and things like ambiance and a sense of place.

 

An example of a great simulation in my opinion, would be Silent Hunter 5, full modded and fixed up with manual TDC, plenty of graphics mods and such that make the game not only a sight to behold and give you a playground that allows you to feel like you're really there, but it also has the depth and thought required for targeting ships and convoys and laying into them with a torpedo after 20 minutes of careful measuring. It also has a dynamic world, I can drop into the ocean with my sub, travel to basically anywhere and I will find ships to fight along the way, I prefer Player vs AI to PVP, but I am hoping that PVE will be just as fun and viable in this game as it is in the Silent Hunter series.

 

What I wouldn't want is for the the game to get too wrapped up in being simulation and be like the DCS series, I don't want 100% simulation with no substance, no fun, no excitement, no ambiance or visual beauty, just cold hard simulation is not fun to me.

[admin]

We would like to mention that we avoid the word simulation when describing our game. 

Usually we say - realistic age of sail combat or action. We are trying to consider all features from the 1000th battle perspective. Interesting mechanics that are adding depth or fun to gameplay are added, but we eliminate features that will just be tedious or boring over the long term.

[HarryButpain]

As long as everybody can join an ongoing battle at any time (maybe even other nations) I do not mind ganking at all ! The later ganking mechanics and patches of FLS simply took the fun out of the game...

 

Seriously, the PotBS years back was the best game I ever played! The full open world pvp where really EVERY aspect of the game was driven by the players was something I never experienced before and that, in all honesty, totally and utterly blew my mind ! When I look at pvp titles nowdays I'm seriously having a hard time giving them a fair chance cause all of them seem so damn superficial compared to PotBS... I had for example high hopes for planetside 2 with its persistent world but sony apparently never managed to really implement territorial conquest mechanics. The game for me and for many others eventually became boring cause fighting without winning wasn't satisfying enough. Again, PotBS simply reset the map, basically did a better job while other games simply fail or do not even attempt to develop such open world, territorial (RvR) pvp mechanics... 

 

I voted for sailing sim to make a point ! For the love of god, pls no dumbing down of thoughtful gameplay & mechanics for the dominating xbox kiddie audience raging over call of duty while threatening to cut your momma's balls off...

 

Btw:

Are magical abilities like NO's invincibility out of the question?  

[Thomas Blackwell]

 

Btw:

Are magical abilities like NO's invincibility out of the question?  

 

All 'magical' abilities have been swept so far off of the table they flew out the stateroom window and splashed down into the sea below. At least that's the impression we get from what we read here.

[Blackie]

Thank you for considering the opinions of your fans.  I think you have found a middle ground that most everyone will be able to live with except for those arcade junkies.  Looking forward to the realistic Naval Action. 

[Babbington]

Just noticed this thread, and I made my very late vote. It's good to see that this was considered and discussed at an earlier stage of development.

 

I will say that the focus here has been on combat, and how desirable sailing simulation would be in that circumstance. Maybe the correct choice was made, with the vote confirming dev's judgement. 

 

But, it's been said that the final game is not going to be only about combat. Is it right to assume that if there's no combat going on, people are not going to want 'sailing simulation all the way' when they are simply sailing? I'm not sure it is. 

[PrezesOi]

I assume that we all want, above all, to have fun. Hardcore, but without exaggeration. If the game goes too far in the direction of the simulation, it will not only disappoint me - this will also be the cause of pushing the game to a niche ( as I see admin post-that's not only my opinion ). The game must be playable. I don't want to check the humidity of gunpowder before combat or sail 4 hours to join battle, just to die in 4 minutes...

[Amoral]

People who ask for a simulation are not thinking clearly. They want game systems based on real world realities, but they don't really want a simulation. They want tacking to involve real world orders, but they don't actually want it to take 10 minutes to come about.

 

Or put another way, who can commit to 4 hours of game play for a simple 2 ship engagement? Who could commit to being at the computer for a solid 12 hours before a major fleet engagement? Not enough people to drive development, that's for sure.

 

The sailing aspects HAVE to be a game. Realistic maneuvering of a square rigged ship is simply too slow for the purposes of Naval Action. Anyone who thinks anything about sailing will be faithfully recreated is dreaming. A better question would have been: how many of the decisions facing a real world captain should be faced by the player of naval action (remembering that things will be occurring at 30 to 100 times the real world pace).

[Mirones]

we are thinking clearly we dont want HP and DPS system.

we have realistc sailin mechanics and the fights take not 4hours?

if you want 5min matches you are wrong here

[maturin]

They want tacking to involve real world orders, but they don't actually want it to take 10 minutes to come about.

Where the heck did you get the idea that tacking takes even a fraction of ten minutes? These are famous warships we're sailing, not hogging replicas with liability and modern crews.

Or put another way, who can commit to 4 hours of game play for a simple 2 ship engagement?

Again, such an engagement would not be the norm.

Your hyperbole does your argument no credit.

Plenty of things on a square rigger can happen very fast. And so far the game does a great job focusing on those things, keeping its simulation in the realm of the possible by modelling the optimal.

[Amoral]

Watching the videos on you tube, it takes about 4 seconds from the order being given for a yard to rotate 90 degrees. To me, that seems like an order of magnitude faster than realistic. I think that this is what the game should be aiming for: realistic orders and decisions that happen at 20 times the pace of a historic engagement.

 

I stand by my estimate of 4 hour engagements. Consider Constitution v. Java.

 

1st sighting 9am

Engagement, 1:50pm

Constitution's helm shot away: 2:30

Ships riggings become fouled together: 2:50

Ships fire into each other from point blank range for 2 hours. 

Thinking enemy had surrendered, Constellation cuts away: 4:50

Ships stand off from each other making repairs for an hour, then constellation closes back in and java strikes at 5:25

[maturin]

Watching the videos on you tube, it takes about 4 seconds from the order being given for a yard to rotate 90 degrees. To me, that seems like an order of magnitude faster than realistic.

Not necessarily. Swivelling a yard can be as simple as throwing a line off a cleat. If you're working with the wind and not against it, the yard will come over essentially by itself. If a brace suddenly snaps, you'll probably see the yard hurtle around with a crash.

Once again, the mantra should be to model the optimal within the realm of the possible. Much better than your strange desire to abandon realism altogether and make everything arbitrarily faster than some time you don't have a good handle on anyhow.

I stand by my estimate of 4 hour engagements. Consider Constitution v. Java.

And what makes you think this is typical? Shannon took Chesapeake in 15 minutes. Constitution took another of her opponents in around a half hour.

So if we take the fast end of all these battles and maneuvers, we get a good standard for the game. Have you played the early access yet? Don't suggest fixing what's not broken.

[admin]

We know that some people play Silent Hunter only on real time with a red lamp. 

[Leviathan]

I'm debating about building a wheel to use for Naval Action and teaching my cat to spritz me with sea water

[Hyperion74]

That won't work Lev, cats hate water.

[Mirones]

That won't work Lev, cats hate water.

 

or get an Tucan who slaps you with its beak in the face evrytime you failed at tacking just like the Spanker would do

[Cochrane]

That won't work Lev, cats hate water.

Yes, but could be counter balanced by cats' desire to piss you off.

[Leviathan]

It's a loyal cat with great dexterity for water spritzing. Also, the wheel will be surrounded by water so no choice but to stay aboard. There's always catnip if extreme coercion is needed.

[Leviathan]

or get an Tucan who slaps you with its beak in the face evrytime you failed at tacking just like the Spanker would do

I'd almost say I prefer the Spanker.

 

Then I think about that sentence and how it sounds and suddenly the Toucan seems like a great idea.

[Mirones]

was it the jib thats called also spanker for when you dont watch out?

[maturin]

was it the jib thats called also spanker for when you dont watch out?

The spanker is the gaff sail at the very rear of the ship, overhanging the stern. So-called because it 'spanks' the stern of the ship, spinning it up into the wind. Luckily, the boom is too high up the mast to be a serious hazard.

Earlier ships, however, had a lanteen spanker instead, and the forward end of this spar would indeed careen about the quarterdeck at head-height. Spanosh seamen called it the 'matasoldas,' the 'killer of soldiers.' So don't strut around the poop deck of a galleon in plate armor unless you know what you're doing.

[Sir Tobias Blackthorn]

I hope they will find a good balance where preparation and planning could give an advantage over the enemy but with not too much micro-management.

I don't have the time to fight an enemy for hours.

[Mirones]

dont worry it dont take hourse unless both are very capable sailors then it might take a looooong time.

in the tournament i seal clubbed chilly willy and the next enemy bitch slaped me almost instantly.

[Germanico]

I'd love to see some factors requiring real nautical skills worked into the sim - but from the videos I believe these are already being integrated. So that's a given. 

From a gameplay perspective it is important to keep the simulation aspects toned to the "fun" of the game (whatever it may be for the individual) so that historical realities do not dampen the overall experience.

 

An example of this would be: requiring players to take into account as many environmental details as possible, using them to their own benefit, while increasing the gun damage of broadside combat to speed up combat resolve.

Speaking out of experience any multiplayer game engagement over 30-45 minutes is bound to see a massively increased number of quitters.

Naturally, it is not a lot of fun watching yourself lose and getting clobbered for hours on end - so it's important to be able to deliver decisive blows.