On Premium Ships and "Pay to Win"

[Mirones]

good luck sailing a squarrigger with 40crew

[Schuetzengel]

why should i do that? im comparing the premium to the not high quality ship considering you have the rank and requirements to sail both. also of course im not speaking of ships you get assigned trough career path/escort duty, but ships you purchase to call your own and deliberately sail out on the os to attack/patrol/intercept

[Justme]

Premium ships/vehicles are not always a bad thing. Just really depends on how the game is set up. Having no experience or in deth knowledge playing this game I can't really say the impact they would have here.

In other games that have balanced premiums that vehicles have an upgrade path to unlock better engines, guns etc.

They may offer a small buff to money( in game free currency) earned such as x1.5, same could go with crew XP if crews are used. The XP on premiums would still cost to transfer to other vehicles. Whether with the free currency players earn in the course of the game, or the game currency you buy with real money.

Premium vehicles might excel in one area, say ROF but be lacking in others. Typically be better than a stock configuration of its tier level, but not superior to a fully upgraded vehicle in same tier/lvl etc

That seems a perfectly reasonable way to make premium ships work, assuming everything I said could apply.

As well as have your standard options for customizations etc

Edit to add

They would have to be very carefull if they label any premium ship as rare. Some think that means sold once, then never offered again( unless as a prize/gift in a contest) while others feel it's sold once or twice a year. Seen many people get into long drawn out forum arguments over that one.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Justme

[BungeeLemming]

There is not going to be a prem ship wich gives the player anymore advantage over his opponent other than a visual appeal.

Pay to play, not pay to win is GameLabs slogan.

 

You guys are freaking out about things noone has seen this far.

Noone knows how Prem Ships are implemented in the game after the testing stages.

 

I know how important it is to keep the game balanced around the ingame economy rather than the pocketmoney of some players.

But the devs have to make money one way or the other.

If you look at World of Tanks there are VERY little premiumtanks wich are considered OP. And those are removed from the store.

So yes, there IS actually a good implementation of premium ships/tanks/planes in ither games. And devs will know how to balance things out. But there must be something to test in the first place. Not only speculations.

 

 

Instead of already whining about pay to win you all should calm down and see how the first testings goe along.

The devs aknowledge your thoughts about this issue. They did change gameplay features in the past and they will listen to the community in the future, too.

The interpretation of some users wich think that anything thats said about prem ships is for granted is not helpful at all.

[Prater]

 

With Premium Ships I see following problem: Some rich kid bought Premium ship (which has no benefits compare to normal ones) and meet skilled player in the Ocean (this is open world game, so no levelling mechanism).

1st options: Premium ship destroyed and kid lost battle. Kid come on forum crying that he spend REAL MONEY and get no advantage (lost in fact)

That is exactly how it should be, and why the ships aren't pay to win. Skill will win out.

 

As I said before, skill will win out. This isn't a PoTBS or Eve click fest. We aim our cannons ourselves, our positioning and maneuvering is vital, our knowledge of manual sailing is mandatory.  Experience is required to gain a vast knowledge of different maneuvers and tactics and knowing what likely will and won't work. Even in the current game, skill has a good chance of defeating a superior ship. It isn't easy, but it is definitely very possible. It will be the same with premium ships even if they are better than normal ships.  There can't be any pay to win unless ships all of a sudden gain magic abilities and can't miss no matter what you do or have gamey qualities.  Looking at what we have so far, I don't think Game Labs will do that.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Prater

[BlouBulle]

As a 8-5 worker that is also a student some months I can afford extra, some months I can't as I have exams to pay for so monthly fees just won't work.

 

 

Premium is fine if:

You are not more powerful (slightly less would be preferred but no big deal).

You have similar running costs

You have owned/own a ship of a similar type (e.g: players can't just buy a MOW on 1st day and either mess up other noobs at the start or suck completely like all the premium guys in World of Tanks do when they are on your team), in other words you shouldn't be able to buy a MOW without having 25 hours in a 3rd Rater or 10 hours in a 2nd rater (if you have a MOW then you can buy it "off the bat").

[Sharprunner]

Hm, i was thinking about the pp hoe have lots of time to play !!

and use pp hoe have les time to play maybe there should be a cute in leveling and a cute  in profits when some spends more then 4 hours of play !!

Is that not a unfair advantage that some can put in more time then others !!

How will we balance this in game !

Just a thought !                 all the flak premium ships are getting.

I will be paying money for premium ships because, sins i was a small boy reading Alexander kent books i have loved this era, and i hope the devs wil keep working to make this a great MMo that will last like Startrek online.

A small extra like a small bones on trading when using a premium Ship or a bones on sailing speed in world  map, a waling ship that has a bigger hold for oil.

That would be nice and balances for all the players that spend like 10 hours play a day thy have huge advantage.

Let me be blunt we pay they play long time we lose !!!

 

Just trying to look at this from a other perspective !

[Similon]

I'd love to be able to pay to bypass the time problem. I doubt it'll happen, but throwing real money at the game to be able to get to the point I want to be at, which for me is being able to sail around in a fully crewed and armed frigate.

 

It's been implied by other people (who I chose to assume are informed) that you can get your premium frigates and Third Rates, but you'll still only have the crew of a schooner available to you so you can't use them (or perhaps can't use them effectively, sailing with 20 people wouldn't end well if it was possible).

 

Personally, I don't see how this would negatively impact other players, since I'm not progressing past anything that anybody can accomplish, I'm simply achieving that (at a cost they were not burdened with), in the limited time I have available. After all, Time and Money are interchangeable.

[Voodeux]

It's just a game. It's just a beta. Anybody who has enough energy at the end of the day to vent and emote about how other game players choose to spend their time, their money, and frankly, their talent, simply isn't worth the even the energy to put them on an ignore list. They are just the same legion of wankers who die and die and die in WOT and then bitch about the game being unfair. They are in the same category of "players" who enjoy ganking care bears in Eve Online.

 

They will change when they grow up, move out of mommy's basement, get a job and a life, or maybe not. The world is made up of Makers and Takers. There are not any other categories. If you are a Maker it makes sense to "buy" stuff, because you can, you can always get more money. If you are a Taker, it makes sense to whine and cry and bitch because you have no other way of coping with reality. This is true in games AND in real life. And don't forget that an aweful lot of folks believe that everyone thinks like they do and if they find someone who doesn't think like that, then that person MUST be stupid or something.

 

That's just the way life is. NA has the potential to be a great game. I think the guys and gals who designed the open ocean trials graphics MUST have gone to sea. It is very realistic, just the salt spray and cold is missing. So lets stop complaining about the way others play and get out on the briney deep and sink ships.

 

Cheers

Bernhart

 

Just to point out that I enjoyed my time in ganking carebears in high sec as their tears were sweeter than honey and still I support the desire by Game Labs to actually make money for the creation of their game (Imagine that). I think that their pay model is one that makes sense and allows for the causal player to gain access to ships (and be bad with them which makes me happy) while adding in the repair cost necessary for their maintenance after a battle to be fair to the 'hardcore' player.

[Gridian]

Captains,

 

The way I understand it Naval Action's real-money ships will be average amongst their ingame bought sister ships, just a way to bypass the grind and keep the light on in the server rooms. After all, we are gals and guys who don't have lots of time to play but the money to spend so that everyone who has the time but is a bit short on money can enjoy the game as well.

 

Thus, I will be happy to throw my money to the screen, just as I have been in all the other similar games with airplanes, battlemechs, tanks and battleships that I've played and am playing.

 

Also, being less experienced we usually are good targets to get damage, kills and all that.

 

To summarize:

- Gold Ships are not better than their silver counterparts

- We pay so that you can play

- We are less experienced, thus easier targets

- Everyone wins

 

Cake and cookies for everyone! 

[MacVaultDweller]

 

 

 

Now I will say this. If I meet you on the water and I'm still a lieutenant and your an admiral because of the money you spent, don't be bragging about your rank. I'm not gonna have the same respect for someone who bought their rank as opposed to earned it. Brag only when you've earned it.

 

I love it ! Buying rank and privilege was an issue of the very time this game is set in. Purchasing rank and privilege or insurance fits perfectly into the game setting.

[thomas aagaard]

In the british army, sure you could buy your way up for most of the 18th century, and then they changed it so you did need a bit of experience on the lower ranks before buying the next one.
 

But Iam not sure that you could buy rank in the british royal Navy and I don't remember reading about this in other navies.
But being a noble, rich  and knowing the right people was naturally a good way to get quicker to the top.This also depend on navy and if we are talking around 1700 or 1800.

At least the British Royal navy had become much more professional, with clear rules for getting promotions, rules and they even executed Admirals who didn't do their job...
 

[MacVaultDweller]

Consider this as a way to satisfy pay to save time, pay to progress swiftly, grinding to earn.

 

1.The purchase of treasure maps with real money for ingame treasure to fund your enterprise.

   The need to sail to it’s location and return to safe port in order to retrieve that treasure. 

   

-Treasure spent in game is something that is infused into the economy and becomes a benefit to all          

    grinders that invest time developing a world crafting service.

 

- Treasure ships returning from retrieval being rich targets for hunters.

   

- Map costs can be tiered for example 5$ , 10$ , 15$ , 20$ and so on with corresponding treasure 

   values.

 

 

2. Pay small fee with real money to obtain Insured escort. Purchase provides teleport to destination to 

    save travel time.

    

   - Would also insure the retrieval of treasure map treasure or cargo that someone spent hours 

     grinding to obtain

[scepo]

cosmetics for money is simple and does not afect gameplay. dota2 is a great example. No need to complicate when a lot of people would pay for a nice figurehead they can mount on all their ships.

[jodgi]

cosmetics for money is simple and does not afect gameplay. dota2 is a great example. No need to complicate when a lot of people would pay for a nice figurehead they can mount on all their ships.

 

Sure, but getting ships and bypassing boring grinds will make me throw money at the screen, cosmetics not so much.

 

WoT has nailed that: You can buy tanks that will help with crew and money grinds, but none of them are truly OP.

[Gridian]

Sure, but getting ships and bypassing boring grinds will make me throw money at the screen, cosmetics not so much.

 

WoT has nailed that: You can buy tanks that will help with crew and money grinds, but none of them are truly OP.

 

Hah! That brings fond memories up... In the open beta, in T8 battles when a KV-5 or three were in the team the chat was funny: "OMG wallet warriors we have lost already bye" and such. 

That only illustrates that we can buy shiny ships, but not the skill to actually drive them. Sail them. I totally meant sail them. Yes. 

[Doschichis]

Sure, but getting ships and bypassing boring grinds will make me throw money at the screen, cosmetics not so much.

 

WoT has nailed that: You can buy tanks that will help with crew and money grinds, but none of them are truly OP.

 

I think you will get surprise by the amount of money people will throw out just for fashion ship

 

btw NA does have premium ship right, you can buy a ship from real money up to 4th class

[Caball]

 

Hah! That brings fond memories up... In the open beta, in T8 battles when a KV-5 or three were in the team the chat was funny: "OMG wallet warriors we have lost already bye" and such. 

That only illustrates that we can buy shiny ships, but not the skill to actually drive them. Sail them. I totally meant sail them. Yes. 

And whats the point too compare Naval Aktion with WoT?

WoT is arena based Naval Aktion not dont compare the lerning curve of players in mmorpgs and arena fighter plz

[Justme]

Hah! That brings fond memories up... In the open beta, in T8 battles when a KV-5 or three were in the team the chat was funny: "OMG wallet warriors we have lost already bye" and such. 

That only illustrates that we can buy shiny ships, but not the skill to actually drive them. Sail them. I totally meant sail them. Yes. 

Gotta love guys who buy the premium vehicles and think they are instant win machines lol. Or instant loss if your facing them.

Regardless of game, if you don't have a clue what your doing it shows quickly normal ship or premium in this case.

[scepo]

I just hate the idea of WoT type premium ships in a game that will have economy. Maybe it will work but I don't think so. In game currency for real money should be implemented only at a much later stage when economy is up and running to regulate inflation and disruption on market. Cosmetics have a potential for user created content and can be hugely profitable without any adverse effects on the economy.

[Gridian]

And whats the point too compare Naval Aktion with WoT?

WoT is arena based Naval Aktion not dont compare the lerning curve of players in mmorpgs and arena fighter plz

 

Well, in the end progression in naval action, like in any MMO-RPG, BA, FPS and whatnot comes down to your skills in combat. I do not know the intended ingame business model, if for example exploring, mining or such can create currency and XP, but even if it is so we all will eventually have to fight. If we suck there our progress will be, quite literally, shot away from under our bums.

 

Also, navigation. Again, I do not know how we are going to navigate in the big wide world, but if we suck at that the best ship out there won't help much.

 

This all serves to say that the comparison is valid to show that premium ship or not, we'll have to know what to do with it. Thus, this is not pay 2 win.

 

*nuckling forehead* Sir!

[Justme]

The problem i see is if you can lose ships after your 5durabilities are gone. People will stick with the premium ships that you cant lose regardless how many times they sink.

[BungeeLemming]

The problem i see is if you can lose ships after your 5durabilities are gone. People will stick with the premium ships that you cant lose regardless how many times they sink.

100% speculations, sir.

Until we get to see prem ships we cannot say anything about the player's behavior.

Thats why I think that this thread is redundant after the first 5-10 pages.

 

All we have here are speculations. How cheap/ expensive are repairs going to be? How will prem ships perform acompared to regular ones? What size will they be (sols, frigates, brigs, shooners?) who knows? we dont.

 

Gamers who play to be competitive will always seek the best ship for their porpose.

potbs has shows this exact behavior perfectly. Every game without classes per se lead to the players wich look for the sole perfect loadout and play with it.

 

If prem ships are not fulfilling these requirements they are degraded to the collectors' choice.

[jodgi]

...If prem ships are not fulfilling these requirements they are degraded to the collectors' choice.

 

Then they won't help the monetization of NA as much as if prems are actually valid for competitive'ish players.

 

Maybe I underestimate the income cosmetics could bring? Or.... Maybe some of you overestimate the long-term income potential of cosmetics?

 

NA most likely (heh) won't have as many players as WoT, so I think they should make sure they maximize the cash out of whales like me. Sure I would buy a bit of pixel bling, but If I'm offered useful pixel thingies my spending increases by one order of magnitude. My WoT account confirms this.

 

Maybe I'm just very unique?

 

[scepo]

Then they won't help the monetization of NA as much as if prems are actually valid for competitive'ish players.

 

Maybe I underestimate the income cosmetics could bring? Or.... Maybe some of you overestimate the long-term income potential of cosmetics?

 

NA most likely (heh) won't have as many players as WoT, so I think they should make sure they maximize the cash out of whales like me. Sure I would buy a bit of pixel bling, but If I'm offered useful pixel thingies my spending increases by one order of magnitude. My WoT account confirms this.

 

Maybe I'm just very unique?

 

 

You are underestimating  income cosmetics can bring and long term potential of cosmetics is much grater since the same ship can have multitudes of figurehead, sails, carvings etc. options . Premium ship has to be designed modeled and balanced with a potential to add great disruption and outcry if it is op at the beginning and then nerfed when already sold for balancing. Dota 2 makes millions of dollars of of cosmetics.

 

Fast search for an article to ilustrate dota 2 cosmetics profits. http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/22/doat-2-made-around-80-million-in-microtransaction-revenues-in-2013-according-to-analyst-firm/ Dota 2 is much larger but expecting 1 million dolars a year from 100 000 players is realistic and in my opinion not much biger then what would be gained by premium ships.

Edited April 29, 2015 by scepo