>>>Core Patch 0.5 Feedback Hotfix v90<<<

[DougToss]

Well @Tousansons - first of all, much appreciated. If only…

Second - it could not have come at a better time for the forum. 
 

I think we’re close to a breaking point here.
 

Edited November 8, 2021 by DougToss

[Cpt.Hissy]

well it is clear that mr. Skeksis either is being paid by devs to try and agitate in their favour, or is actual skeksis. Just leave it there, people.

On topic. Funny to say, but the Bathtub of Toyboats (aka WoWS) actually does the visibility thing better than here.

For those unfamiliar: every boat does have it's own visibility range. And while you can see all enemies spotted by your team on the map, in actual gameworld you only can see the ones within your visual range. You can blindshoot at the map markers if your guns range allows, and can even hit sometimes, but eyeballing the target on the small minimap + added artificial inaccurasy of shooting without locked target, makes it unlikely.
That's how this could easily be done here.
Same with torpedo evasion etc, of course. Every ship should control itself individually, not being driven by all-seeing AI from heavens.
And no, player being in the heavens is not a valid argument.

 

also sneak peek from steam: people are loosing hope, this project is already being called abandonware. We can go home?

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Cpt.Hissy

[T_the_ferret]

59 minutes ago, Tousansons said:

Hello admirals,

Despite the difficulties of 2021, which have affected everyone’s life as well as the game’s development, we continued to provide several updates and significantly improved the game. We deeply hope that Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts has already become a game that you enjoy and thank you for your ongoing and precious feedback that we so much appreciate.

We want to assure you that we acknowledge all your concerns and suggestions and today we would like to inform you about what are our definite plans for the next patches that are going to be delivered within 2022.

We will continue to monitor your feedback and hotfix anything necessary that you report. The next major updates are organized as follows:

• Core patch 1 - Core of campaign
• Core patch 3 - R&D and Tech Progression 
• Core patch 4 - New nations and map expansion

The first short campaign version of the game will be playable for two nations (British Empire, German Empire) and will expand with content in every next core patch.

Patches 1-3 will be made based on a campaign map covering the North Sea and will feature the conflict between Great Britain and Germany. New ships, new game features will be offered as the game shapes up around this first playable campaign. 

The Steam Early Access version of the game will become available upon the finalization and polish of Core Patch 3.

In Core Patch 4 and onwards we shall progressively add new playable nations and expand the map until we fully cover the campaign with everything needed.

We cannot promise a specific date of arrival for those next major updates but we confirm as above their flow of delivery within 2022. Furthermore, we confirm the allocation of another dedicated programmer who will focus solely on needed improvements for the ship design system.

Thank you all for reading. We will get back to you with specific information about the next big update of Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts!

Tousansons

(I'm sorry)

 

You almost got me you bastard, can't do that to people starved of info 

Edited November 8, 2021 by T_the_ferret

[brothermunro]

Thanks for the update & welcome to the new member of the dev team!

I was curious if Core Patch 2 was still to focus on Crew and Officers as previously mentioned?

[AdmER]

3 hours ago, Tousansons said:

Hello admirals,

Despite the difficulties of 2021, which have affected everyone’s life as well as the game’s development, we continued to provide several updates and significantly improved the game. We deeply hope that Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts has already become a game that you enjoy and thank you for your ongoing and precious feedback that we so much appreciate.

We want to assure you that we acknowledge all your concerns and suggestions and today we would like to inform you about what are our definite plans for the next patches that are going to be delivered within 2022.

We will continue to monitor your feedback and hotfix anything necessary that you report. The next major updates are organized as follows:

• Core patch 1 - Core of campaign
• Core patch 3 - R&D and Tech Progression 
• Core patch 4 - New nations and map expansion

The first short campaign version of the game will be playable for two nations (British Empire, German Empire) and will expand with content in every next core patch.

Patches 1-3 will be made based on a campaign map covering the North Sea and will feature the conflict between Great Britain and Germany. New ships, new game features will be offered as the game shapes up around this first playable campaign. 

The Steam Early Access version of the game will become available upon the finalization and polish of Core Patch 3.

In Core Patch 4 and onwards we shall progressively add new playable nations and expand the map until we fully cover the campaign with everything needed.

We cannot promise a specific date of arrival for those next major updates but we confirm as above their flow of delivery within 2022. Furthermore, we confirm the allocation of another dedicated programmer who will focus solely on needed improvements for the ship design system.

Thank you all for reading. We will get back to you with specific information about the next big update of Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts!

Tousansons

(I'm sorry)

 

YES !

....   good try... but way to much information, coming from nothing to a full text-update like that!

You should only have drop few lines to be more real! But this is in the good spirit of what we need!

Thanks!

[T_the_ferret]

Its a joke post sadly. Don't get your hopes up. We'd never get info like that from the devs

[Skeksis]

18 hours ago, Draco said:

It would improve gameplay by forcing the players to use more varied tactics

I know exactly what’s proposed, I'm after the result.

IMO the result would be that every ship would have to be sailed individually into either its surface visibility or enemy visibility range, to acquire the target. What then would be the point of formations.

Your battlecruisers would be facing escorts at point-blank range, visual range.

All capital ships would be facing enemy capital ships at visible range only, never at optimal gun range. see example. Meaning all battles will be govern by Tower Spotting, Surface Visibility and Visibility Range. Not by current enemy awareness. Ditto for escorts.

Especially early era where TBs/DDs would have a new and decisive advantage in stealth. Creating swarms of torps from unseen meanness.

What a total mess that would be, especially with cascading debuffs. Cannot see this as an improvement.   

It could possibly effect the player enemy awareness too, which is not RL but needed for general gameplay. But then how could Dev’s even visualize this for the player.

What’s yours conclusion on the effects (please do not repeat unnecessary explanations). No one offered their speculation on such impacts, just that it's RL. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Skeksis

[Cpt.Hissy]

Total mess is the current ingame state of everything visibility related, and that should be reworked first. Isn't it obvious?
Remember, it is alpha still, even core elements still can and must be changed as much as needed to work properly.

[Skeksis]

6 minutes ago, Cpt.Hissy said:

Remember, it is alpha still,

Not now, campaign is virtually here, maybe UAD2. Sorry but you need to keep your expectations in check, other-wise you're just going to face disappointment. But quiet Dev's don't help either. 

That's where we differ, I accept the game in the here and now.

[Tousansons]

2 hours ago, T_the_ferret said:

Its a joke post sadly. Don't get your hopes up. We'd never get info like that from the devs

To be fair, it is a copy paste (with slight adjustments) from a real post of nick. They can communicate, sometimes.

Joke aside... What happened? Why don t we have the same treatment as age of sail? Where is the so called dev team right now? 

I m not too upset, I think. I had my share of fun, some interaction in the forum, etc. But really, what happened ?

[DougToss]

54 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

IMO the result would be that every ship would have to be sailed individually into either its surface visibility or enemy visibility range, to acquire the target. What then would be the point of formations.

It would just mean formations sail into effective range… which is exactly what happened.

 

At Jutland, often shooting opportunities were fleeting and the whole battleline was not engaged at once. It’s no different than a turret not being able to come to bear on a target, it happens. 

54 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

Meaning all battles will be govern by Tower Spotting, Surface Visibility and Visibility Range. Not by current enemy awareness. Ditto for escorts.

Yes. Precisely! That’s what we want! 
 

Knowing that the enemy is out there ≠ shooting them. Bingo. 
 

Visibility is one of tens of features that had better not be what’s planned for release! In what universe is the current state of the game acceptable? 

Edited November 8, 2021 by DougToss

[T_the_ferret]

37 minutes ago, Tousansons said:

To be fair, it is a copy paste (with slight adjustments) from a real post of nick. They can communicate, sometimes.

Joke aside... What happened? Why don t we have the same treatment as age of sail? Where is the so called dev team right now? 

I m not too upset, I think. I had my share of fun, some interaction in the forum, etc. But really, what happened ?

Complete lack of care, not from the dev team as a whole but from whoever is in charge of communication and in charge overall. They clearly don't give a shit. We'd be satisfied with the slightest bit of info every now and then but even that's not happening. 

All the stuff i've experienced, seen and played for Age of Sail, Gettysburg, Civil War, its all gone. I dunno where it went but honestly this studio is just the typical example of indies getting big and adopting triple A behavior instantly out of sheer hubris

There's no other explanation that makes sense

[T_the_ferret]

41 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

Not now, campaign is virtually here, maybe UAD2. Sorry but you need to keep your expectations in check, other-wise you're just going to face disappointment. But quiet Dev's don't help either. 

That's where we differ, I accept the game in the here and now.

Keep our expectations in check? This is quite literally a pre-alpha. We're not even at alpha stage yet. If they already can't change, no, tweak some of the core mechanics we're in for a world of hurt

[Skeksis]

4 hours ago, T_the_ferret said:

Keep our expectations in check? This is quite literally a pre-alpha. We're not even at alpha stage yet. If they already can't change, no, tweak some of the core mechanics we're in for a world of hurt

Tweaking/balancing yeah, battle mechanics no. Unless there’s major bug that materializes IMO battle mechanic are done and dusted.

This is the game.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Skeksis

[madham82]

9 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

I know exact what’s proposed, I'm after the result. 

IMO the result would be that every ship would have to be sailed individually into either its surface visibility or enemy visibility range, to acquire the target. What then would be the point of formations.

Your battlecruisers would be facing escorts ship at point-blank range, visual range.

All capital ships would be facing enemy capital ship at visible range only, never at optimal gun range. see example. 

17.6km with radar, 14.6km via enemy, 7..7km without radar, gun range ability 25-35km.

Ditto for escorts. Especially early era where TBs/DDs would have a new and decisive advantage in stealth.  

What a total mess that would be. Cannot see this as an improvement.   

It could possibly effect the player enemy awareness too, which is not RL but needed for general gameplay. But then how could Dev’s even visualize this for the player.

What’s yours conclusion on the effects (please do not repeat unnecessary explanations). No one offered their speculation on such impacts, just that it's RL. 

You seem to be preceding from a false assumption that visual range doesn't dictate engagement range when it does. The burden of proof is on you to provide otherwise, as you have dismissed any facts and historical examples when presented before. 

Also from your previous analysis on spotting, you proved that theoretical visual range does not correspond to actual  visual range. So I fail to see what you are out to prove here. That a BB in majority of cases will not be able to engage a target at maximum gun range? Isn't that realistic?

You seem to be suggesting a whimsical fancy that you can create a small stealthy ship that could just keep the enemy fleet "lit", enabling you to fire with impunity with ships so far away they can't actually see what they are aiming at, much less where their shots are falling in relation. How is that not a game breaking mechanic exactly? How will the AI know how to react to that? What would be the use of towers and radar on anything but a purpose built spotting ship? 

[T_the_ferret]

How sad is it that everyone here resigned themselves to the fact this is the only thing we'll ever get, that it'll keep along that course, or that "i got my money's worth already so its ok if it dies"

Edited November 8, 2021 by T_the_ferret

[Skeksis]

22 minutes ago, madham82 said:

You seem to be preceding from a false assumption that visual range doesn't dictate engagement range when it does. The burden of proof is on you to provide otherwise, as you have dismissed any facts and historical examples when presented before. 

Irrelevant to the point the game is already committed with the current visibility system. Really, you want them to change it now, good luck with that. And as I’ve pointed out to you before, it is fundamentally based on the height of the observer, i.e. RL.

22 minutes ago, madham82 said:

Also from your previous analysis on spotting, you proved that theoretical visual range does not correspond to actual  visual range. So I fail to see what you are out to prove here. That a BB in majority of cases will not be able to engage a target at maximum gun range? Isn't that realistic?

You seem to be suggesting a whimsical fancy that you can create a small stealthy ship that could just keep the enemy fleet "lit", enabling you to fire with impunity with ships so far away they can't actually see what they are aiming at, much less where their shots are falling in relation. How is that not a game breaking mechanic exactly? How will the AI know how to react to that? What would be the use of towers and radar on anything but a purpose built spotting ship? 

Again all irrelevant, this is the current game, unless Nick jumps in and says they’re going delay another year and change the whole visibility system, its’s here to stay, get use to it. Or wait for version 2. (just my opinion of where the game readiness is at) .

BTW, I've never question historical truths, just accept its plausible representation. You should try it!

Edited November 8, 2021 by Skeksis

[DougToss]

32 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

Tweaking/balancing yeah, battle mechanics no. Unless there’s major bug that materializes IMO battle mechanic are done and dusted.

They literally add mechanics in every patch.

 

If you had said that earlier, there’d be no crew system.

 

What the hell are you on about man? What’s the point of a pre-release, a hello kittying testing forum, if everything is “done and dusted”?

 

lol they better be paying you for this shit, you’re degrading yourself.

[DougToss]

16 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

Irrelevant to the point the game is already committed with the current visibility system. Really, you want them to change it now, good luck with that. And as I’ve pointed out to you before, it is fundamentally based on the height of the observer, i.e. RL.

You insult yourself with every post like this man, idk what else to say.

 

It’s going to be very lonely being the only person playing this game if the solid feedback here and on steam is discarded in favour of your ass kissing. You’re being hello kittying Krysten Sinema and Joe Manchin here, only you’re stalling the game getting better for absolutely no reason that I can see.

I’m sick of you hello kittying filibustering the feedback forum by trying to shout down or shut out feedback. 
 

If you’re content that the game is perfect as-is, hello kitty off and let us provide feedback. Don’t trouble yourself by reading it. Jesus Murphy.

Edited November 8, 2021 by DougToss

[Commander Reed]

Man, this thread has a lot of arguments and conflicts. I've gone through most of the pages, plenty of em. Why cant we all just have a civilised, friendly discussion?

[Draco]

35 minutes ago, Commander Reed said:

Man, this thread has a lot of arguments and conflicts. I've gone through most of the pages, plenty of em. Why cant we all just have a civilised, friendly discussion?

Agreed. In lack of anything better to do, we could at least devote the down-time of waiting for campaign to learning to speak like sensible adults again.

[Draco]

that being said though, no it won't take them a year to change it. It will take them an afternoon at most to change it, and a patch at most to balance it's effect on gameplay.

Man I really hope they follow through on adding mod tools after release. That way we can all get the UAD we want. The realists can get their simulator, and the arcadists can get their gun fights at cold war era missile range. Everybody wins.

[DougToss]

2 hours ago, Commander Reed said:

Man, this thread has a lot of arguments and conflicts. I've gone through most of the pages, plenty of em. Why cant we all just have a civilised, friendly discussion?

The reason is simple: I don’t think everybody is making arguments in good faith, and when they go on to derail any discussion that does happen, it wears away at civility. It abrades goodwill. 
 

I agree with your sentiment, but I hope you can see both that I’m trying, and where I’m coming from - in wordcount alone.

Edited November 8, 2021 by DougToss

[madham82]

1 hour ago, Skeksis said:

Irrelevant to the point the game is already committed with the current visibility system. Really, you want them to change it now, good luck with that. And as I’ve pointed out to you before, it is fundamentally based on the height of the observer, i.e. RL.

Your response is irrelevant, because the in game visibility system works as expected in 1v1, but not when multiple ships are involved. That is the definition of a defect or bug. The very fact you mention height of the observer in your next sentence indicates you have no idea what is being discussed.

Let me put it again simply, no one is arguing about when a ship is visible. The issue is what justification is there for ignoring said visibility system and allowing unimpeded, accurate fire on a ship that is out of visual range of the ship firing. 

The game is already tracking visibility of each ship. The game already tracks and assigns penalties/bonuses based on individual ship situations. It is a quite simple fix:

Ship not in visual range of ship being fired on = hefty penalty or prevent fire (debate is fine on which is better for gameplay)   

I am done arguing this issue with you, so there's no need to reply. 

Let's move on, everyone's feedback is in this thread for the Dev team. It is up to them, not any of us. 

[DougToss]

2 minutes ago, madham82 said:

I am done arguing this issue with you, so there's no need to reply. 

@Commander Reed, @Draco Nobilis - I’ll own this, I should have done this a while ago on this, and a few other issues. Good on @madham82 for leading by example, I’ll follow suit.

I’m happy to discuss whatever, but I’m not going to get sucked into bad faith, disingenuous gish galloping.  

Edited November 8, 2021 by DougToss