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'Historical' Submod of J&P Rebalance mod, release thread


adishee
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47 minutes ago, CajunNavy said:

Hey @adishee, I think Phillippi was likely a problem on my end.  I have started again and got through it without a problem.

Great work! I am really enjoying the mod.

Really glad to hear it. Hopefully things stay stable, everything seems to be working correctly in my playthrough, notwithstanding tiny bugs that I already know about (touch wood). Keep me posted as it goes.

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9 hours ago, adishee said:

Really glad to hear it. Hopefully things stay stable, everything seems to be working correctly in my playthrough, notwithstanding tiny bugs that I already know about (touch wood). Keep me posted as it goes.

I just finished Gaines Mill.  No problem.  Playing faultlessly.  But I do miss the smoke. LOL

Great job!

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6 hours ago, CajunNavy said:

I just finished Gaines Mill.  No problem.  Playing faultlessly.  But I do miss the smoke. LOL

Great job!

The smoke -- so what I think you're saying is that the thicker smoke is disappearing? This is happening because you're playing bigger battles and all the extra stuff is interrupting my smoke effects.

When I first made those effects, I didn't understand how to correct for this in the code. I've since learnt why that happens and how the original game makes that not happen, and I'm working on a fix for that. Also, the next major version will have dynamic smoke, so that it's not always wafting in one static direction.

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8 hours ago, adishee said:

The smoke -- so what I think you're saying is that the thicker smoke is disappearing? This is happening because you're playing bigger battles and all the extra stuff is interrupting my smoke effects.

When I first made those effects, I didn't understand how to correct for this in the code. I've since learnt why that happens and how the original game makes that not happen, and I'm working on a fix for that. Also, the next major version will have dynamic smoke, so that it's not always wafting in one static direction.

Well, it doesn't develop like it used to.  If I have to pause for any reason, the smoke will be awesome when I start back, but when it clears it disappears again.  Also, after the first volley it seems to be lighter than it was before, sometime I won't see it at all.

I am only playing at BG level as you have made this is an entirely new game.  There are so many new considerations and limits.  Very fun to figure things out. LOL!

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4 hours ago, CajunNavy said:

Well, it doesn't develop like it used to.  If I have to pause for any reason, the smoke will be awesome when I start back, but when it clears it disappears again.  Also, after the first volley it seems to be lighter than it was before, sometime I won't see it at all.

I am only playing at BG level as you have made this is an entirely new game.  There are so many new considerations and limits.  Very fun to figure things out. LOL!

Glad you're having fun. Yeah, it is verrry different even than J&P. Yeah, I just spent a few hours working on the smoke, it's just not cooperating. I don't have enough knowledge, frankly, or direct access to the development environment to fix it properly. The problem is if I increase the smoke amount, it may be different for other players depending on their computers. And the reason the smoke becomes less is that, as a battle goes on, more computer resources are being consumed so the game can render less smoke (again, because I'm not exactly sure how to fix it).

@i64man I'm doing a hint overhaul (see screenshot), trying to add some UI enhancements and make selecting an entire brigade easier, and just some tweaks to balance. I'm also trying figure out how to let skirmishers be able to stack, and not reposition when they overlap. 

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@adishee

I have finished the Union Campaign and it was a blast!  I am so glad I played BG as the mod makes the campaign a lot more difficult. Right now I am stuck at Shiloh.  I do not think I will be able to get past it.  Playing Confederate is not very much fun, at least for me.  I may just give it up.

The main issue, one I think you should consider revisiting, is the skirmisher changes.  They are a great benefit to the Union but a major problem for the Confederates.  For example in the Potomac Fort, I start with @ 2500 troops in three regiments.  I face 4 skirmisher groups of 500 men each.  There is simply no way for my 70-85 man skirmish units to compete.  Put on top of that, there are 8 (I think LOL) regiments of regular troops of >500 men each.  I was able to win twice at BG, but the skirmisher units make it verrry difficult.  It is extremely tough just getting to the fort, much less holding it. Fast forward to Shiloh, and I am finding the vast multitude of skirmisher units just make it impossible to win.  Again, I am talking about my experience, it may be different for better players.  I have played it three times, capturing the landing two of the three times.  Moving to the second day, I am overcome, overrun and overwhelmed in just a few minutes. It is just too much for me LOL.

I think you are without doubt on the right track.  But I personally think the campaign starts with an ahistorical amount of skirmishers with late war power.  This is of course a game, but the object of the mod is to make it a little more historical, one you are succeeding in brilliantly!  But at the beginning of the war a regiment's skirmishers were one or two of it's companies and this remained throughout the war. I don't think Berdan's regiments were formed until the end of '61. ( I could look it up but you get the point).  I don't think the Confederates started dedicated units until about the same time.   So it seems to me 500 superman units didn't start at the very beginning of the war. Just something to think about. 🙂

Other thoughts: I love the regiment and brigade changes.  A regiment was nominally 1000 men anyway.  Totally awesome!  Makes it a totally different game.  But I think 4 regiments should make up a brigade, not three.  My thinking only, just something you might want to revisit.

I love the pace.  Superb.  I have always played at regular speed anyway, but this is like watching a real battle in real time.  Of course I have never seen a real CW battle 😉, but it is very, very much like a reenactment and I have seen plenty of them.

The perk changes are also brilliant.  I love them!

All in all I do absolutely love the mod. There is likely a lot more, but I just finished Shiloh and my head is hurting and I can't sit down, my a** has been thoroughly kicked! 🤢 Thank you for your hard work.  Also thanks to @pandakraut for his mod and assistance with this one.

 

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On 4/12/2020 at 11:49 PM, CajunNavy said:

e campaign starts with an ahistorical amount of skirmishers with late war power.  This is of course a game, but the object of the mod is to make it a little more historical, one you are succeeding in brilliantly!  But at the beginning of the war a regiment's skirmishers were one or two of it's companies and this remained throughout the war. I don't think Berdan's regiments were formed until the end of '61. ( I could look it up but you get the point).  I don't think the Confederates started dedicated units until about t

Hey @CajunNavy.

Glad you liked the Union campaign! I am especially happy about this comment: "I have always played at regular speed anyway, but this is like watching a real battle in real time.  Of course I have never seen a real CW battle 😉, but it is very, very much like a reenactment and I have seen plenty of them." It gives me something to look forward to, as well, because I can't even run the game well on my current computer. 

So the skirmisher issues, the very first thing to say is that those are not 500-man units. The first level recon will read "< 500", but that means anywhere below 500, not just below. In 1861, they have a max of 250, and the actual hp spawns randomly below that so those units are always < 250.

Secondly, while skirmishers can still be very deadly in the submod, they are only so if you let them be. Skirmishers are very sensitive to incoming fire, even if that fire is coming from a much inferior unit. This is because they take much more morale damage (not actual damage) from incoming fire. So much so in fact that I've made them more resilient in the latest build, at the bottom end of their morale damage.

You can take a completely green infantry regiment and drive off a 2-star skirmisher unit, just by concentrating volleys of fire at it. I wonder if you  replay trouble spots with this in mind, if you'd maybe have an easier time of it. Skirmishers can be dealt with, but you have to make sure to take them seriously and concentrate fire on them before they start exploiting your flanks. They can't stand up to massed infantry coming at them, no matter how good they are.

One thing you REALLY have to watch out for is sharpshooters armed with scoped rifles, because they deal extra morale damage and very quickly cause your units to fall apart. You have to deal with these guys quickly, so everything I said goes triple for them. I've actually nerfed their number already.

I haven't had much time lately to put to the mod, but I'm very grateful for your playthrough of it and feedback. Development on it will continue once I get more time to devote to it. Ideally I would like to see what other players think of skirmishers, and if they've found any new ways to deal with them. 

 

Edited by adishee
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On 4/15/2020 at 8:26 AM, adishee said:

Ps - I wonder if you would like to send me your savegame of your CSA campaign? I'm just curious as to what stats you have and your army makeup at that point.

Cheers

Hi man,

I should have looked closer to those skirmishers! LOL  My bad.  I'm sorry I don't have the savegame, I deleted my games when I quit playing.

I'm sure I'll be back, but I need a break from UGCW.

Stay well, everybody!!

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@adishee Hi there! Enjoying the mod greatly, very different feel to the game, was just able to beat Shiloh on BG. But now i got stuck on a weird bug. Or maybe that is intentional and i just missed it in the changelogs?

I can't select the "Veteran" checkbox when replenishing regiments with recruits, only able to click on "Rookie".

ikdStFq.png

Edited by Mr_Teflon
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17 hours ago, Mr_Teflon said:

@adishee Hi there! Enjoying the mod greatly, very different feel to the game, was just able to beat Shiloh on BG. But now i got stuck on a weird bug. Or maybe that is intentional and i just missed it in the changelogs?

I can't select the "Veteran" checkbox when replenishing regiments with recruits, only able to click on "Rookie".

ikdStFq.png

Hi, @Mr_Teflon. Thanks for the question. Indeed, the Veteran tick box is disabled in my submod. I thought the idea of veteran-buying to be not very authentic, and adds a bunch of challenge for the player.

The only way to preserve experience in your units now is to avoid getting them killed, and investing in the Medicine perk. Also, you can combine units in the submod by dragging them (within the same brigade) on top of one another. Note that they must have the same weapons equipped to accomplish this action, but in this way you can combine experienced units to preserve experience.

This is all in the changelog, but that thing is now pretty massive and hard to read no doubt.

Don't be shy if you have any more questions.

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Game came to a grinding halt and froze in the middle of the Battle for Salem Church, and because you enabled IronMan mode, I have to re-play the 2 hour battle of Chancellorsville. Thanks for that. Never had a single performance or stability related issue before installing this mod.

 

Why force Ironman and "roleplay' onto someone who may not want it? Seems a little shortsighted in my opinion.

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On 6/3/2020 at 2:25 AM, bubby9 said:

Game came to a grinding halt and froze in the middle of the Battle for Salem Church, and because you enabled IronMan mode, I have to re-play the 2 hour battle of Chancellorsville. Thanks for that. Never had a single performance or stability related issue before installing this mod.

 

Why force Ironman and "roleplay' onto someone who may not want it? Seems a little shortsighted in my opinion.

Hi @bubby9.

First, really sorry to hear of the crash. If I had to guess, it probably happened while someone was charging an artillery battery. This bug was recently found (thanks Jonny), and is fixed so far in the current test build (as in, I haven't been able to reproduce it).

As far as Ironman is concerned ... well, it was a bit of an experiment to make it the mandatory game mode to play in. I have little doubt that most if not all other players who try the mod will agree with you—at the outset, at least. And it's definitely the safer option given how tricky deployments can be, and how easy it can be to ruin your campaign if you make a wrong choice.

We'll see, I'm not convinced that I want to release the mandatory setting. I think having your campaign hanging in the balance of each decision pretty much adds an entirely new level of depth to the game without even having to add more content, and I kind of want people to appreciate that because I think it's a really exciting way to play. Definitely not a commercially viable stance, but I'm paid for hundreds of hours of free work with nothing more than ... realizing my own vision.

I'll try to either get a hotfix, or the next version out soon that fixes that bug. Or if you want to hop on the discord I'll give you the latest test version.

cheers

Edited by adishee
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Hi Adishee,

Like CajunNavy, I really like the pace of the game with this mod. In fact it reminds me more of John Hills regimental miniatures game Johnny Reb when playing large battles now. If you have never played it take a look at it because you might get a number of good ideas from it. This is the way the game should have been designed right from the start in all truth - regiments rather than brigades. I also like the way you make the irregular regiments lose their command and control during movement, particularly true with cavalry, a fantastic thing to witness because it stops the game being controlled by mouse jockeys. I also like the fact that units now move by column as it really used to annoy me to find different units marching along a road, some in column and others in line. The reduced sprite size also gives the game a much better feel of scale. I feel like I playing with 6mm now rather than 15mm figures, so I can see exactly what you were seeking to strive for here. This is the way I like to play and very few can capture this. So well done as the mod is looking very promising and I am delighted to see where it is going. 

The only thing I am finding is that while the game now runs much smoother than it did after the last vanilla patch and the J&P mod, I am facing some flicker issues with all the blanket smoke. It can handle everything else but the additional smoke. While I am on a Mac at this time, I will be picking up a meaty PC to handle it, but with emigrating to a new country this year and the Covid-19 issue, it might be a little longer than I would hoped. As the electric voltage differs between the countries buying a new machine would just be a waste. So I was wondering if there is anyway to switch the historical smoke off so it will run on older machines? I have tried to alter a few things in the rebalance historic spreadsheet, but as I have no real idea what I am actually doing, I felt it wiser to ask here just incase it is possible to do. 

All good things, stay safe, understand Rome was not built in a day, no one lives on the Game-Labs forum and the best things in life are always done in partnership with others. So I will catch your response in good time as there is no rush this end. 

Earthane 

Edited by Earthane
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14 hours ago, Earthane said:

to find different units marching along a road, some in column and others in line. The reduced sprite size also gives the game a much better feel of scale. I feel like I playing with 6mm now rather than 15mm figures, so I can see exactly what you were seeking to strive for here. This is the way I like to play and very few can capture this. So well done as the mod is looking very promising and I am delighted to see where it is going. 

The only thing I am finding is that while the game now runs m

Hi @Earthane.

Thanks so much for your comments, it's extremely satisfying to know that someone gets what I was/am trying to do.

As far as the smoke is concerned, there is indeed a way to just turn off all the special effects that I have very cumbersomely integrated (it was not a simple thing). If you go into the Historical.csv file in Mod/Rebalance, there is a line smokeEffectsSwitch. If you change the true to false, it should turn off all of those effects. But alas, I'm not sure why your worse computer is causing a problem: the way I had understood the effect, the faster your computer the more smoke you see. I've tried to correct for this disparity but this was the best I could do, after many many manhours of trying to fix it.

Perhaps in the upcoming version I can make a config option to reduce the effect, so that there will be a couple of "speeds" that players can use to try and match the effect to their system.

Anyway, stay tuned for the 1.2.7 version which I think you should like. Thanks again for your kind words.

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Hi Adishee, 

Thank you so much for your kind and informative response. I will go and turn the SmokeEffectsSwitch from true to false and hopefully this will allow me to enjoy the campaign without the flickering until I am able to obtain a new machine and enjoy your mod the way you fully intended with the smoke.

It might be worth considered two releases to allow people with machines that would have comfortably ran UGCW when it first came out as that might open your mod up for more potential users. Old machines that can run UGCW will comfortable run the J&P mod, but like I said, there appears to be an issue with the last UGCW patch that your mod avoids. This is why I also find your mod so pleasing to use. There is no lag or, as we Mac users tend to say, "multicoloured pizza wheel of death" that emerges from time to time. Just a little flicker that is clearly smoke related. More troops, better matching, better pace and better performance - bonus! 

Thanks once again.

Earthane
 

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Hi Adshee, I'm giving the mod another try this morning and it's come on a lot since I first tried it.  It's looking very good 👌.  However there is still something wrong with Potomac Fort on a CSA game.  I've started a new game 3 times and each time have over run the fort, captured or killed the union infantry and skirmishers, and have the artillery routing and surrounded between the sea and the fort, and just as I am about to kill or capture them either one or both magically disappear, and I can't win the battle.

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