Is the old Flag system an answer for Raid mechanic?

[Koltes]

What is good about the raids that we want?
a) Instant action;
b) Non permanent results

So why not the old Flag system? Its already done. Not much code required, etc.
Benefits are undeniable. We WILL have player population jump right back when flags will return. Means more cash for the devs and more content for the players.

What was good about flags? 
The instant action!

What was bad about flags?
Loosing ports when you cant defend them

Flags bring back instant action. But because its a raid this means that its only a temporary port capture. Say for couple of days. Attacker get some daily benefits from it, like VM, cash or whatever. After 2-3 days the owner gets his port back automatically and there is a week cooldown on that port.

That's it. I bet there will be far more raids than conquests and far less butt hurt people. In general we all will be happier and have more players comeback just because of this feature.
😉 

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

I dont care how it is set up or much of what it actually impacts. Just want it to be 5th rate focused and smaller clans are able to set it up.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Davos Seasworth

[van der Clam]

Another bad part of flags was buying hundreds of them and running everywhere with them at the same time. As long as the flag system does nothing to raise hostility nor come back for initiating PBs, I think the flag system would be perfect for raids. 

[Krists]

Port raid is good idea. Flag trolling is hello kittying pussy...

Edited June 22, 2019 by Krists

[Guest]

Honestly raiding should result in stealing a percentage of resources from any crafter buildings there.

That way if you attack a bigger crafting center you can basically fill an indiaman with whatever resource exist in that port in a short time.

Edit: in fact you should need to have a trade ship to trigger the raid in the first place. It will slowly start siphoning resources till full.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Guest

[Koltes]

1 hour ago, Flinch said:

Honestly raiding should result in stealing a percentage of resources from any crafter buildings there.

That way if you attack a bigger crafting center you can basically fill an indiaman with whatever resource exist in that port in a short time.

Edit: in fact you should need to have a trade ship to trigger the raid in the first place. It will slowly start siphoning resources till full.

No need any siphoning or time sink. Raid is all about fast action. Raid the port, whatever is in the buildings you can take - for free. Fill up what you can carry and piss off. Make few trips if necessary with trading ships. This way clans organize attacks, take resources and leave.
And the owners of the place wont really lose anything. Yes production will be stopped for a day or two, but who cares, after raiders leave that will be reinstated again and they will get back their resources in couple of days..
Win/Win

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, van der Decken said:

Another bad part of flags was buying hundreds of them and running everywhere with them at the same time. As long as the flag system does nothing to raise hostility nor come back for initiating PBs, I think the flag system would be perfect for raids. 

That can be fixed many ways, make them expensive (doubloons not reals or even cost CM).  Put a cool down on them.  Make the cool down for successful raids very short (24 or 48 hours), but if the flag isn't placed or is stopped make it a long cool down before that clan can pull another (72 hours+).  Make it so they can only be pulled by clan and maybe clans of a certain size (so you can just have solo clans pull them....5/10+ member's maybe?).  

I would allow the raids to only be on the sub ports of a region.  They can give you 25% hostility on the main port if the attacker wins.  Make them like PB, but only a single circle.  Battle Royal that you only win by having the most ships in that circle or destroying all the enemy's.  To prevent griefing you also have the 1K point win, but it's only from that one circle so no way to grief the other circles to win.   Since it's short notice it could have less ships, the BR for raids can be set for a certain amount for attackers, but Defenders can use full port BR.  This keeps from unjust zergs and gives defenders the edge since they should be able to call in reinforcements.  Since the raid is a surprise attack they defenders wouldn't be prepared with ships ready so they might not have full fleet there.   Also keep raids to port windows.  This will give reason for some to put timers on sub region ports they don't want raided.

Winning a raided port for the attackers allows them to own the port for a short time....I would say 3-5 days max 7 (maybe until week end maintenance wipes all raids clean?)    All contracts are closed on a raided port, allowing the raiding clan to set up there own contracts while owning the port and take resources.   This would give clans a reason to raid copper and rare wood ports.  While port is raided the raider clan gets all tax income but also has to pay the maintenance on it or it drops the raid early.  While a port is raided it has a perm red zone around it, making it a PvP zone with a x2-5 boost to all XP gained while fighting in that zone (making raids a pvp hot zone for all).

[Koltes]

1 hour ago, van der Decken said:

Another bad part of flags was buying hundreds of them and running everywhere with them at the same time. As long as the flag system does nothing to raise hostility nor come back for initiating PBs, I think the flag system would be perfect for raids. 

 

1 hour ago, Krists said:

Port raid is good idea. Flag trolling is hello kittying pussy...

Yup, thats why Raid flags needs to be replaced by Raid Fleet.

Raid Fleet can be formed in any town of your nation and it specifies which you are going to raid.

Everyone on a server gets the message that Raiding Fleet was started against [name of the town] and is currently located North West [from that town] within [distance in nm]. Then every 15 minutes there will be an update of the approximate location of the Raiding Fleet (Direction and Distance).
This represents the fact that in the era often rumors were faster delivering news about approaching armada.

Raiding Fleet needs to be specific size before it can be formed. If it disbanded, then members of that Fleet can't join another Raiding Fleet for an hour. If they get booted, but Fleet is still active those members can still rejoin the same Raiding Fleet.

This will stop multiple flag issue as you need proper full size group of people organised for each one.

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

12 minutes ago, koltes said:

No need any siphoning or time sink. Raid is all about fast action. Raid the port, whatever is in the buildings you can take - for free. Fill up what you can carry and piss off. Make few trips if necessary with trading ships. This way clans organize attacks, take resources and leave.
And the owners of the place wont really lose anything. Yes production will be stopped for a day or two, but who cares, after raiders leave that will be reinstated again and they will get back their resources in couple of days..
Win/Win

This is why I mention a temp 3-5 day owner ship of the port and than it returns back to the owner.  Allows them to get the tax's, any rare goods (all contracts are stopped so they can put there own up), and any other resources there they can buy up and run for it.  Also make it a PvP hot zone with xp boost to make raids dangerous as others might come to raid the raiders of there goods.

 

Either way it's CONTENT something this game needs more of.

[Slim McSauce]

Yes it is. You don't just remove a huge feature like flags and set it aside as "hopeless"
You're hopeless if you think there's no role for flags to play in the game.
Obviously flags is the raid mechanic, we're just waiting for it.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[AeRoTR]

7 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

This is why I mention a temp 3-5 day owner ship of the port and than it returns back to the owner.  Allows them to get the tax's, any rare goods (all contracts are stopped so they can put there own up), and any other resources there they can buy up and run for it.  Also make it a PvP hot zone with xp boost to make raids dangerous as others might come to raid the raiders of there goods.

 

Either way it's CONTENT something this game needs more of.

Why keep the port for 3-5 days ? They raid and they run away. Port should have some period of immunity after a succesful raid.

Raid should be instant finishing in an hour or so. Port production including tax, resource etc. should be due to previous days average. So when raid is finished, raiders loot chests, small chest of 500 tons or big chest of 1000 tons. Let's say there are 6 small chest of 500 tons and 3 big chest of 1000 tons. You are free to loot if you can carry and escape.

These chest should be like deadman's chest, must be claimed in port, when claimed reals/doubloons/resources/rare upgrades (from port average and even if exists clan warehouse) randomly occurs inside the chest and deducted from the raided port resources and warehouse.

Raid should have BR limit for attacker, and defender. So you have to have some battleships in your fleet plus trader or traders to carry big chests if you want.

[Archaos]

The problem with a lot of these suggestions is that although they sound good in principle and many people like the general idea, they fall down when it comes to actual implementation and ways in which it can be abused.

A few of the questions that spring to mind are:

1. when can flags be pulled? are they at the same time as port timer, if not people will just raid ports during quiet periods when defenders are not around.

2. So you raid a port and people say you should have access to the warehouses and can take just what you can carry, well many items have almost zero weight so I guess you steal all LH contracts, books etc. That would really mess up a nation or clan with warehouse there.

3. If raids can only be done during the port timer, then whats the difference between a raid and a port battle apart from the instant action?

4. So you only hold the port for a couple of days as some suggest and then it goes into cool down for a few days after which you rinse and repeat again, making the port worthless due to the constant attacks.

5. If its just instant action that people want then why does it have to be against a port, why not just have a raid system where you form a fleet and it is announced where you will go for a brawl. You still get your instant action and no one gets butthurt to find their stuff stolen when they logon due to a raid through the night.

 

One thing is for sure and that is people will find some way to use a flag raid system to grief other players.

[Sir Texas Sir]

58 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The problem with a lot of these suggestions is that although they sound good in principle and many people like the general idea, they fall down when it comes to actual implementation and ways in which it can be abused.

A few of the questions that spring to mind are:

1. when can flags be pulled? are they at the same time as port timer, if not people will just raid ports during quiet periods when defenders are not around.

2. So you raid a port and people say you should have access to the warehouses and can take just what you can carry, well many items have almost zero weight so I guess you steal all LH contracts, books etc. That would really mess up a nation or clan with warehouse there.

3. If raids can only be done during the port timer, then whats the difference between a raid and a port battle apart from the instant action?

4. So you only hold the port for a couple of days as some suggest and then it goes into cool down for a few days after which you rinse and repeat again, making the port worthless due to the constant attacks.

5. If its just instant action that people want then why does it have to be against a port, why not just have a raid system where you form a fleet and it is announced where you will go for a brawl. You still get your instant action and no one gets butthurt to find their stuff stolen when they logon due to a raid through the night.

 

One thing is for sure and that is people will find some way to use a flag raid system to grief other players.

1.  I would say it is only during timer, most sub ports folks don't keep timers on since you have to attack the capital, but raids would mean if that sub port is important to you you would put a timer on it.

2.  I would say /NO/ to taking anything from actual players clans, just resources from the port  (like if it drops copper they can use it a means to get copper).  The reason for holding it a few days is to let them collect this resource.  

3.  Port battles are to keep the port perm.  Look above this shouldn't effect the players personnel stuff, just means they can't use there buildings or set contracts during the raided time.

4.  Than put a timer on it and protect it, I would also give a good cool down so a port can't be raided over and over and over easly.  Maybe a one week timer that a port can only be raided once a week....if the attacker gets the port for 3 days than put a 5 day cool down on it, so it's actually every 8 days.

5.  Cause people hide, if they don't want to fight they just stay in port.  By having a raid you have a reason to come and stop the other team from raiding your port cause you will loose production in there and maybe even have the towers/forts be damaged so they have to be rebuilt.  (another topic but ports need there own warehouse storage for things like fort/towers supplies if they get damaged).   

There will always be some one that tries to abuse things, but by putting cool downs and timers on things it helps prevent.  Make them costly so raids aren't just able to happen every day with a clan.  Cost high CM/VM or Doublons to pull the flag (think CM is best cost).

1 hour ago, AeRoTR said:

Why keep the port for 3-5 days ? They raid and they run away. Port should have some period of immunity after a succesful raid.

Raid should be instant finishing in an hour or so. Port production including tax, resource etc. should be due to previous days average. So when raid is finished, raiders loot chests, small chest of 500 tons or big chest of 1000 tons. Let's say there are 6 small chest of 500 tons and 3 big chest of 1000 tons. You are free to loot if you can carry and escape.

These chest should be like deadman's chest, must be claimed in port, when claimed reals/doubloons/resources/rare upgrades (from port average and even if exists clan warehouse) randomly occurs inside the chest and deducted from the raided port resources and warehouse.

Raid should have BR limit for attacker, and defender. So you have to have some battleships in your fleet plus trader or traders to carry big chests if you want.

As mention above put a long timer, if they can keep the port for 3 days put a 5 day cool down, so it can be raided every 8 days at most and if you don't want it to be raided put a timer on it for when you can defend it.

in an hour or so?  You never been in battles have you apparently that lasted the whole 1.5 hours?  You can't make anything rush to be under an hour in this game.  Sorry this isn't for guys with just 30-60 mins of play time.  It takes longer than that most the time to get the group together ans sail some where.  There should be a 2 hour window that you can plan the flag and than the raid starts as soon as you plant it, that gives folks time to get there and to set up defense when they flag is pulled (port timers are a three hour window so that is tight time).  

Sounds like your talking more about epic events with being less time and the chest?  Why wouldn't the defender get something too if they defended against the raid unless your speaking up a complete AI only thing, than again that is what Epic events or for.  Yes they could make up a raid version or port battle for the PvE guys with something similar to what your speaking of.

I do agree with the BR limits, that why I mention do it like a PB with one circle only since you have less ships or BR and have them fight over the one circle.  Winner is who kills the most ships or reach the vicotry points first (so to keep from kitting out of the circle and away from the fight).

[Sang Noir]

Sounds really nice:

1. Instant Action, Raids during Port Timers
2. No Port ownership for days, one time event, cooldown for a week
3. Rewards are handed out in form of treasure chests that contain Doubloons, Reals, port special resources (rare woods, module ingredients)
4. Bring your traders along to carry chests, chests will appear like wrecks in front of town, can be exploited until finished
5. traders are a target for retaliate action after raid, you need to escort them home, planning a route (escort mission for all players of the nation to help, everyone will try to hunt the raiders)
6. BR limit, no ships higher than 5th rates

What about the raid battle, how is it going to be like? Like a patrol zone with a circle that is closing for faster action? Battle stays open so defenders can keep joining until BR limit is reached?

 

[AeRoTR]

@Sir Texas Sir I mean normal battle instance, most of them finish in 1 hour or so...

[CaptVonGunn]

Might work with a few tweeks.. ie.. no more then 3 Raids on any Nation in the same say 4 hour time frame total... It is still a game and expecting people to be able to defend a6 or 7 raids and a PB at the same time is just asking for people to quit.  

 

 Raid should be able to get a % of whatever is in any Production Buildings and storage at the time(resources)...and a % of city income... The City owners keep the city but cant do anything with it for 48 real hours and then no one can raid it again for 7-10 real life days AFTER they get full control back..

   I would love raids to be a thing but I just not sure we will ever get them...  Kind of like manned Forts...  We know the Towers can be manned we did it all the time in the old days when we boarded them.. I think it would be awesome to have each one player controlled This would allow for some interesting Attack and Defense adjustments.. Maybe have the Forts BR reduce teh total Fleet defense BR? or for each fort the attacker get s bit more... based on Fort and Twer BRs?