AI ships too tough now in battle

[LeopoldRNN]

I have been playing for several weeks now since March wipe patches (I had been gone for few months), and the  changed difficulty of fighting the AI ia obvious.

I enjoy, expect and hope for a good challenging fight from the AI as much as anybody, but the results I'm seeing repeatedly in battle are disturbing and a little ridiculous. I have gone in to battle against a single Surprise or Frigate or Cerberus with 3 Essex's (200 BR x 3) against these 140-155 single AI shiup, many many times and  repeatedly have barely won, sometimes not , being forced to retreat from so much damage. I DO NOT SUCK.  Their [AI] DPS damage , and resilience,  their captaining, is all much tougher. It's legitimate to make AI competitive , but when it's gets to this point where a massive BR advantage still barely makes it through battle and you leave a 600 vs 155 BR battle tattered and barely floating with any of your ships something is off in the AI 's abilities 

[Teutonic]

I must be honest that I haven't had the same experience as you - or I've been more picky with the AI fleets i fight.

A few things I have noticed is that I gain a ton more XP than previously when fighting ai and even players.

Overall I feel that the fight against ai is probably more difficult and since I don't seem to make a lot of reals fighting AI it makes the perception that it isn't worth it.

 

[Marquês do Bonfim]

You need to be way more selective about who you're attacking now. A few days ago, I was testing a new meta-upgrade in my Victory and I attacked a fleet of 3-4th rates, 1 Agammenon, 1 Ingermanland and 1 Wapen Von Hamburg and I almost sunk. I was able to fight off the Aga and the Ingermanland, but the Wapen was so fast and so maneuverable, that everytime I was trying to turn around, he was already on my stern~raking the shit out of my crew, which makes my ship even more slower than usual, plus getting my middle-structure to go down like paper because your stern and bow are the weakest points of your ship, so you really gotta be careful with them. By the time that I was finally able to give a proper broadside at the Wapen and potentially sink it, my HP was already gone in one side, mid-structure was already at 50% and my left side was going down like paper aswell, so I had to put him in irons and try somehow to get out of his cannon range and potentially leave battle, which I did btw and I was able to save my Live Oak/White Oak Victory, but that made me think of how the AI was powerful enough to even destroy a 1st rate if they knew what they were doing.

So yeah, you gotta be careful.

[Internetbaron]

If i read the story of the poster it becomes very obivous.

If you dont use top class mods and carros you cant 1v1 AI ships. 

When you take medium cannons with shitty uppgrades and bad wood. The ship is on paper the same the AI is sailing but in battle you get completly destroyed.

The Point is, if you are unexpierenced you are done and you will get sunk by the AI. Furthermore the Scaling of Mission with fleet is new for me and I dont get the reasons behind it. 4 Star missions rewards are still trash compared to group missions therefore i dont see a reason to prevent players from doing "easy" 4 star group missionms with fleet ships.

[LIONOFWALES]

4 minutes ago, Internetbaron said:

If you dont use top class mods and carros you cant 1v1 AI ships. 

I don't have this issue... I sank an Essex AI with my Surprise and I won in an overwhelming way, many players don't understand that you can turn faster and remain on the enemies stern if you depower and lower your sails at the right moments.... this game requires skill to play, those that develop these skills will win regardless of mods.

This is my experience... more practice makes more perfect... especially with combat.

Three cheers for the frigates and their gallant Captains!

[LIONOFWALES]

1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

Overall I feel that the fight against ai is probably more difficult and since I don't seem to make a lot of reals fighting AI it makes the perception that it isn't worth it.

I agree with this, players need to practice demasting ships and repaire/sailing timing. If one can master these points... then defeating AI is really quite easy.

[LIONOFWALES]

1 hour ago, LeopoldRNN said:

I have been playing for several weeks now since March wipe patches (I had been gone for few months), and the  changed difficulty of fighting the AI ia obvious.

This was necessary because the AI was far too easily farmed with little to no skill required. I think this update was inevitable.

[LeopoldRNN]

I do all of that very well ...I know my repair CD's, I know when to use them ...I know how  (and commonly) to demast /stern rake ,  etc ...the Difference is more seems what Baron said; 'When you take medium cannons with shitty uppgrades and bad wood'  -that is my set-up typically  ... Fir /Oak build , med cannons, basic upgrades 

[Teutonic]

2 minutes ago, LeopoldRNN said:

 ... Fir /Oak build , med cannons, basic upgrades 

I would try adjusting to oak/oak and slap a hp mod in your ship.

In my experience you don't need to be nifty - you just need a ton of hitpoints and a little sailing to angle when you can to take less returning fire.

[Barbancourt]

 

Just now, LIONOFWALES said:

This was necessary because the AI was far too easily farmed with little to no skill required. I think this update was inevitable.

I wouldn't call AI "easily farmed".  They don't repair and could always be defeated with kiting, but kiting still takes a long time.  On the other hand if they repaired and didn't submit to kiting I don't think I could beat them very often.

[van der Clam]

And to think that today's patch subtracted turning rate, but increased penetration in AI. It's now required to farm at least 2 rates below...or at least have friends with you.

[LIONOFWALES]

Ah, yes fir is a very bad wood... oak is doable and teak is better in my experience... I hope this helps... also, it is very important to maneuver in a way that reduces your own silouette  when fighting especially at close range.

5 minutes ago, LeopoldRNN said:

I do all of that very well ...I know my repair CD's, I know when to use them ...I know how  (and commonly) to demast /stern rake ,  etc ...the Difference is more seems what Baron said; 'When you take medium cannons with shitty uppgrades and bad wood'  -that is my set-up typically  ... Fir /Oak build , med cannons, basic upgrades 

In regards to using Medium Guns... I have been using them as of late on a frigate made of Oak/Oak. It is slow... but if you put basic light rudder and sir william congreives sights... plus a basic cannon pen. mod on the ship the AI becomes far easier to deal with... cannon accuracy mods will also give you a slight advantage to ranged combat... long ranged combat takes some time to master... but can be done. I won several AI mission this way... to note also one more thing... it is important to have double shot perk. What you have to do is maneuver first... into positions that encourage the AI ship to fire at you at a little bit of an angle... this helps to reduce damage taken... then fire a broadside of regular shot at medium range... say 200-300 meters away into the AI... you may have to repeat this a couple times as you will need to reduce the side structure to around 80% or so... then close range and hit the AI with double shot... already loaded from a while ago, you may have to maneuver in a way to gain a slight wind advantage, then dump the double shot into the enemy ships at point blank range... angling your ship away as soon as you fire your guns... This is imperative to reduce damage taken from AI ship. Then disengage and create distance again. Rinse dry repeat.

I hope this helps you. It works very well for me. Good luck and enjoy the combat!

 

[DevsGoFluckYourselves]

Kindly Delete This Account

Edited July 31, 2020 by KindlyDeleteThisAccount

[LIONOFWALES]

1 minute ago, JoeForKyo said:

The only difference was the silliness of AI when trying to do maneuvers they now cannot carry out anymore without creating a nice 3 ship bowsprit for your L'Ocean.

Yeah, its easy to encourage the AI to do so... I know exactly what you are referring to.

[DevsGoFluckYourselves]

Kindly Delete This Account

Edited July 31, 2020 by KindlyDeleteThisAccount

[LIONOFWALES]

9 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

And to think that today's patch subtracted turning rate, but increased penetration in AI. It's now required to farm at least 2 rates below...or at least have friends with you.

Yes, it has always been easier to far rates lower than.... it just seems very easy to encourage the AI to follow me into the wind and get in irons or taken aback.

[LIONOFWALES]

2 minutes ago, JoeForKyo said:

the solution was to depower, turn your sails away, and wait till the very irritating bit driven vessels drag their ass out your way so you can properly blow them up.

Again though, funny bits aside, it's mostly the usual business, just don't get surrounded, as usual, and kite, that works.

Yes, this is my combat solution too... just need to be patient and win the long game. I meen long game as... it takes maybe 30 minutes to do now what used to take 15 minutes. Just an example.... I have to sail carefully if I want to win … and if at all possible only to sail broadside if the NPC has fired already.

Edited April 5, 2019 by LIONOFWALES

[LIONOFWALES]

23 minutes ago, Barbancourt said:

On the other hand if they repaired and didn't submit to kiting I don't think I could beat them very often

Only repair when you can disengage... this works best... it takes more time but I come out of battle a bit less shredded. And make sure to use chain shot to defoliate the enemy ship early game, this is very important. Especially if the player is not very good at mast sniping.

[LeopoldRNN]

I appreciate the tips and comments here, but my OP was not so much a ask for help , but a clear observation that the AI difficulty has changed rather significantly , and that is has created situations where the player cannot win (accept for much mitigation & accommodation in the ship build and much needed real experience (skill)). For the record I have won most of these AI battles, only forced to retreat a few times, but only after much lengthy fighting, several repair cycles,  and every trick I know (I sail very well forwards backwards, I manage my yards exceptionally well, etc.) -Please don't mistake me for a n00b. I have been playing since 2015/2016 and have max rank in sailing and crafting.

It's too much of a 'gotcha' trap by the game when the average player cannot take much comfort from such a heavy BR advantage. 

 

My basic point is a 140-155 BR single ship should not be such a powerful hard to win fight when you shown up with 600BR  (3x 200) , regardless of what woods or mods or books you have.

The BR gap (in my scenario) is too large and stretches credibility of reasonable game design that the AI fights with such a heavy advantage in what seems like every battle. 

 

[Steele OooOoOOoOOOooooOOOO]

It is really how you choose to fight , Custom 1v1 was not for the broadside it was positioning and scaled targeting with first round for range , if your going toe to toe ,your going toe to toe with a ship ,that if he leads you win,if you let him out maneuver you,you lose,im not going into details. but back in the day you could see them and they could see you ,so it was a lot of tit for tat and playing the range game until you have confidence to make the bold move or just cut and run. I have noticed too that toe to toe ,is lethal ,and more often than not I prefer old school tactics with the AI and employing durable Brigs because of their maneuverability or I keep my AI on the leash until I need to break or make the kill .

[Ligatorswe]

Uh, yes I noticed that the AIs are tougher today when testing the Rättvisan.

New players do have to learn new methods to fight, like demasting, and perhaps they have to start by killing some ships of lower rank.

[Barbancourt]

 

  They need to give the AI repairs

  Then we will see proper carnage  

 

[TheLoneWolf]

The current situation is now absurd in terms of ai buffs.  I had a bellona that was pushing my lo wo santi while stuck in irons and backing up.  Next week we will be grinding ai cutters with our 1st rates!  I am questionning more and more where they want to go with this game.  Why wipe all our assets xp etc.  to lure new players when most will quit shortly after starting due to difficulty.

[Zlatkowar]

On 4/5/2019 at 10:30 PM, Portuguese Privateer said:

You need to be way more selective about who you're attacking now.

This is the exact opposite of player engagement. I fail to understand the logic behind this move.