Powderhorn Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 6 hours ago, HachiRoku said: That is fine but just like @Powderhorn you say you do not believe the DLC ships are P2W. Both of you do not say why I am wrong though. I will now list the facts that you are going to debunk. If you fail to debunk them I win the argument. That's not how the world works, I'm afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundgemunkey Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Powderhorn said: That's not how the world works, I'm afraid 1-0 to Hachi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Powderhorn said: That's not how the world works, I'm afraid That is true. Still proves my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staun Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, HachiRoku said: 3 Its not pay to win since you are building the ships. Again to clarify this is about the ship building aspect. Not the stats and performance of those ships in battles. If you read the topic you will read that I created it in response to what admin said to me about capturing ships. About 3. I use real money to buy a permit to give to a guy to build lets say a 1 rate for me. Yes it is crafted, but would you not say that is P2W. I have read the thread and your topic. I have responded to the idea presented about how Dlc ship should be build. I have mentioned some things, that I think can be potential P2W, and maybe even more than the system we have right now. You have then explained to me why you think I am wrong and why you still think your idea is the best. Thats how a good debate should be. Those that have read this topic, might end up just a bit more informed on Pro and cons, and can therefore make a better choise on the matter. Ps: You havent still answered me why you think that what 50% think is good should be removed because 50% dont like it. Why the one of 2 equal groups should be punished over another. When ppl talk about P2W, not sure why ppl focus so much on ships and so little on the admiralty connection. It gives 10 extra dock spaces. I can in peace time build extra 10 ship for RvR, put in dock and have them ready when needed. In thise times would you not say it is a big anvantage to have in RvR? Edited December 20, 2018 by staun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staun Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 8 hours ago, Grundgemunkey said: nerfing the pirate rig ,, hurts every ship not just the dlc ships ... so nerfing it has no effect a better soloution would be taking away the ability to add refits to dlc ships Why should the one Dlc suffor for the saling profile of the other. What about futur Dlc ships, would they not to then suffor because of one ship? But it is ok when it is Dlc ships, but not when it is crafted ships. Got you. Dlc ship is bad, bad, bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 1 hour ago, staun said: Ps: You havent still answered me why you think that what 50% think is good should be removed because 50% dont like it. Why the one of 2 equal groups should be punished over another. Because it was added to the game after people bought it. You think I would have bought naval action if I knew it would become P2W? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 12 hours ago, jodgi said: <whisper> Don't... do... that! When you attack someone like that everyone thinks you're at the end of your wits. You risk deleting all the sense you usually make. Hachi, pls!</whisper> I heartily agree! I must insist on separating p2w and p4c. If you chuck everything in the p2w (bad, bad, bad in my view) we will cross communicate and never speak the same language. p2w - bad p4c - fine The write-up you quote mentions WoT and their attention to selling p4c but avoiding p2w. They had gold ammo for real cash only at one point and were rightly accused of p2w. They made all the competitive equipment available for non prem players but prem guys got there faster <- This is acceptable in my opinion. lol never heard this therm before. So if there is a DLC for growing white oak, its not pay 2 win, but its pay 4 convenience because its more convenient owning that dlc then to wait for the resources to drop. insert .wat.jpg here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, staun said: About 3. I use real money to buy a permit to give to a guy to build lets say a 1 rate for me. Yes it is crafted, but would you not say that is P2W. I don't really believe that is the case because 10 euro is worth less than the time it takes to build a 1st rate. Even unemployed people have 10 euro to spare and would not do that trade. Even if it is the case it has no effect in game. The same amount of ships are produced since ship building materials are not related to the amount of real life money you invest in it. Not including alts and Admiralty. They already are in game. Admiralty is also P2W like alts. I believe you even said that. The reason I don't care about it is because if the dlc doesn't exist people will just by an alts for buildings. The effects of alts is something I do not know how to fix. Edited December 20, 2018 by HachiRoku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 It strikes me as an absurdity to quantify "wage per hour" against time spent in a hobby. My worth per hour in the office has absolutely ZERO correlation to cash/time spent in hobbies. At the very best compare two leisure activities cost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sella Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) My financial status or income should absolutely not matter in a video game/buy ships that are available with only real money which with their current implemantation give me an edge in the game over others that dont own it. I deal with that inequality everyday irl, why should it matter in a game. Something has to be done about those ships to change their status. It shouldn't just stand out on its own. It should be something like: " We have the X ship that has the Y amount of broadside weight and sailing characteristics. But hey, you could buy that cool Argentinian ship that has almost the same qualities as the X ship but it looks way cooler and its Argentintian!". That would be the correct implementation of a DLC for me. Also nerf some of the mods that tank its performance. Edited December 20, 2018 by Sella22 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire83 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Ive skipped afew pages but here is my thoughts.. I do own herc dlc. So i will take more risks and be alot more kamikaze in hercules for 1 reason only ... its EASY & COSTS NO RESOURCES.... To be honest i have killed herc in trinc and endy several times.. Requins i dont fight... Ive killed bellonas in trinc and hercules. Only difference entering those fights is if i lose herc i go to port click afew buttons JOB DONE....no logistics If i lose my trinco i go to port check stock maybe click afew buttons JOB HALF DONE.. Now i have to check how low is stock of item A,B,C. Great im low on item B thats half way across the map thats another 2 hours mostly afk sailing to harvest etc.....so 2 days, 1 tow and 2 contracts later i can sail enough of item B back to my crafting port 2 hours mostly AFK now JOB DONE... I dont like dlc in pb just because they have such a impact they become a neccesity just to counter your enemy bringing them so nobody dare not bring them... The hercules has several weaknesses if as a player you cannot exploit them chances are you got beat by a better player and he could of done it to you in majority of 5th rates.. Requin i just dont know enough about tbh...but ive never seen 1 lose a mast..but ive not encountered many.. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Spitfire83 said: Requin i just dont know enough about tbh...but ive never seen 1 lose a mast..but ive not encountered many.. i can assure you, the requin has thin masts and since its one whole piece, its critical if it gets demasted. Been on both sides of that situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said: It strikes me as an absurdity to quantify "wage per hour" against time spent in a hobby. My worth per hour in the office has absolutely ZERO correlation to cash/time spent in hobbies. At the very best compare two leisure activities cost. Crafting is not a hobby for me...I rather work in real life than farm mats and resources. Still doesn't mean that there should be a convenience dlc for me that makes the game worse for many others. Don't say it's a hobby because 90% of trading is afk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Spitfire83 said: Ive skipped afew pages but here is my thoughts.. I do own herc dlc. So i will take more risks and be alot more kamikaze in hercules for 1 reason only ... its EASY & COSTS NO RESOURCES.... To be honest i have killed herc in trinc and endy several times.. Requins i dont fight... Ive killed bellonas in trinc and hercules. Only difference entering those fights is if i lose herc i go to port click afew buttons JOB DONE....no logistics If i lose my trinco i go to port check stock maybe click afew buttons JOB HALF DONE.. Now i have to check how low is stock of item A,B,C. Great im low on item B thats half way across the map thats another 2 hours mostly afk sailing to harvest etc.....so 2 days, 1 tow and 2 contracts later i can sail enough of item B back to my crafting port 2 hours mostly AFK now JOB DONE... I dont like dlc in pb just because they have such a impact they become a neccesity just to counter your enemy bringing them so nobody dare not bring them... The hercules has several weaknesses if as a player you cannot exploit them chances are you got beat by a better player and he could of done it to you in majority of 5th rates.. Requin i just dont know enough about tbh...but ive never seen 1 lose a mast..but ive not encountered many.. Amen brother. I agree with everything but one point. Let them join pbs but make them craftable. I just hope the devs do see the issue because if they deny it I cannot continue to support a product from someone that is dishonest to me as a consumer. To this day they deny there is any advantage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porpoise Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: Amen brother. I agree with everything but one point. Let them join pbs but make them craftable. I just hope the devs do see the issue because if they deny it I cannot continue to support a product from someone that is dishonest to me as a consumer. To this day they deny there is any advantage. This is exactly what I am proposing. Make DLC ships craftable and add a small economic bonus for sailing them. Something like +50% credit and XP income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 43 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: Still doesn't mean that there should be a convenience dlc for me that makes the game worse for many others. 1) It is subject to acceptance. Me disagreeing entirely with it doesn't mean it is not in game. It is and i have to play knowing it is in. 2) Could she be reviewed ? Of course she can ! Same as everything else... which i will not cease to say - Sail forces, modules and all other wonders affect ALL ships. What I get mad at is players that want to see 1 ship reduced to rubble while defending their own favorite toy not to be touched... no matter crafting or not, see 1.) . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 49 minutes ago, Porpoise said: This is exactly what I am proposing. Make DLC ships craftable and add a small economic bonus for sailing them. Something like +50% credit and XP income. No bonus for anything or its P2W. They are ships like the rest of them and shouldn't be treated better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njord Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: No bonus for anything or its P2W. They are ships like the rest of them and shouldn't be treated better. I agree about currency and anything else but only +25-50% XP gain wouldn't be too bad. It's not like you can unlock other ship slots with that and you will probably still gain XP faster in a proper SOL. Then again I don't think there would be any need for this. Having access to a unique ship is value enough in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Sovereign said: I agree about currency and anything else but only +25-50% XP gain wouldn't be too bad. It's not like you can unlock other ship slots with that and you will probably still gain XP faster in a proper SOL. Then again I don't think there would be any need for this. Having access to a unique ship is value enough in my opinion. It would not be the worst thing in the world but I would rather a fix to the big issue first 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raf Van Boom Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) Oh the issue is much simpler and doesn't require multiple paragraphs. Have pop? game work, no pop? game no work Edited December 20, 2018 by Le Raf Boom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtiberofrog Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) Harmonious & balanced ship variety: We experimented developments that drove PB's & OW to include/involve the largest variety of ships. Why not taking that same road and avoid seeing too many DLC's in OW & PB's ? DLC's should get stats closer to other comparable ships, they cannot be F1 among sport cars. Fair multiplayer server: A unique DLC works for PVE single player server but, as suggested in previous post here, to be fair/balanced for multiplayer server the DLC ships should be craftable/capturable and shared by every player in that server that wishes to sail one within game mechanics. Also (if the treak still exists), any DLC's should have "fleet" option disabled, then the current redeem rules could be meaningful. The peeps who pay for DLC's would do it mostly for avoiding crafting labor and go for "easy-to-get-ships" option, that should be the only reason why it's fair/good option for casual players. Or do we want to invite this player category of wealthy trolls to join NA only to purposely mess around with P2W DLC's ? Edited December 20, 2018 by Celtiberofrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Celtiberofrog said: DLC's should get stats closer to other comparable ships, they cannot be F1 among sport cars. Good idea but I have a question. What is comparable to a requin? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Le Raf Boom said: Oh the issue is much simpler and doesn't require multiple paragraphs. Have pop? game work, no pop? game no work I don't think it is that simple. The genre is why we have no players. People that wanted a sailing game came, played a few k hours and left. That's how games work. 95% of games are die in first 6 months. There is no magical patch that will bring loads of people back. At the end of the day it's still pew pew and sail sail. We all get sick of it in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custard Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: Good idea but I have a question. What is comparable to a requin? Type 45 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Custard said: Type 45 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer No its not. Requin can hide under guns and Stern camp it not problem... Compare the stats. Can even hide under radar. It was the first stealth ship ever built. Even has more crew noob Edited December 20, 2018 by HachiRoku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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