A Controversial Subject.

[HachiRoku]

44 minutes ago, greybuscat said:

All of those ships have been subject to rebalance since I've started playing the game, both with individual adjustments, and with global changes (speed nerfs) that disproportionately affect one ship more than the other.

Thats what I want. Exactly what I want. Still has nothing to do with the point I am making. 
Edit: I mean dont want lol. I never understood global speed nerfs. It just makes the game 10% slower for example. Ship A is still faster to ship B

Edited December 18, 2018 by HachiRoku

[Powderhorn]

4 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

thats the scary part

Nothing scary about it.  Either the store page functions as a contractual obligation, or it does not.  But why risk issuing out refunds?

[HachiRoku]

2 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

Nothing scary about it.  Either the store page functions as a contractual obligation, or it does not.  But why risk issuing out refunds?

Its scary because they won't risk it and from a business standpoint I wouldn't either. 

[Powderhorn]

Here's the way I see it:  Everything is an experiment in this game.  How DLCs should work, how priorities should be focused, even how much or how little you listen to the community.  Herc & Req DLC are just more data points.

[HachiRoku]

10 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

Here's the way I see it:  Everything is an experiment in this game.  How DLCs should work, how priorities should be focused, even how much or how little you listen to the community.  Herc & Req DLC are just more data points.

some players have to pay a price for that. 

[Powderhorn]

1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

some players have to pay a price for that. 

I have no idea what you mean.

[HachiRoku]

3 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

I have no idea what you mean.

If they cannot change the ships redeemable issue by law they will remain p2w. Players that don't buy them will pay the price for not having them. The price being them having to go out and look for and capture a ship in open sea and not redeeming. 

[jodgi]

2 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

yes but please don't start that argument here. You know what I mean and just make my argument weaker  

Didn't mean to, I like you, babe!

[HachiRoku]

2 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

Can someone summarize/explain OP in a sentence as if I were 5 ?

Do not say "as if I were 5" since a five year old would not read the topic and ask that question. You missed the point brother. OMG. Nerfing op ships to hell will not change anything about them being p2w

[Powderhorn]

I just don't see them as p2w.  I think the turn rate of the Herc is a little high, and the Req suffers no penalties from pirate rig, but both are eminently beatable.  I just see them as "Pay to get a ship without looking."

[staun]

7 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

what is wrong with you? It is 100% true that DLC ships require less real life time and ingame time to "craft". They take less than 20 clicks to buy on steam, redeem and arm with medium cannons. Why should I capture or craft 1 surprise for 30min in real life when you need 10 clicks? This is a FACT. If you disagree you are delusional. Also. If you understand english you would know that I just wrote a whole post about why ship stats are irrelevant to p2w in game. This is also a fact.

Fact: There is no balance between Santi, Victory or Ocean

Fact: There is no balance between Buc, Pavel, Chris

Fact: There is no balance between Bellona, wasa, 3rd

Fact: There is no balance between Connie, Inger, wappen

Fact: There is no balance between Suprise, Renomme, Trinco, endy, diana, herc, requin, santa, and all the 5ths i forgot

Fact: There is no balance between 6th rates

Fact: There is no balance between 7th rate

All ships in game are either better or worse than other ships. Balance doesnt exist.
 

There will be always a meta ship in port battles as long as you have armour thickness, cannon penetration and BR. Deal with it. 

And if you can read, you would understand your suggestion that allow yoo to buy them as permit just is more P2W as it is with one redeem a day. With your idea, I can buy for real money  permit, and craft as many as I care, as long I can find LH for it. Nothing with stats ore balance as you name in the post above.

So you idea is basicly the one that want to spend 10€ on the game a day can make 5 Herc a day. Isent that more P2W than 1 redeem a day. Yes I know I need to get ressources, But proberbly can get somebody to do it by give him a permit ore 2. So well guess even more P2W.

Your idea has the potential to create a Black market. As you said, you spend more on cigarets. I don’t Smike, so I can spend more. I can just annonce on global that I would buy, lets say a 1 rate, I would buy for permits. Even if they bind   To char, I can just give them as a gift on steam. Your idea have the potential to make real money a Black market currency in the gane, And in my opinion my friend, thats P2W.

Edited December 19, 2018 by staun

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Oh...

... you know what...

Step 1. DLC can only be redeemed in ports where Admiralty is present.

( i mentioned this a few times before )

 

... let me ruminate a bit in the rest...

 

9 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

A age of sail book of dweeb would be a wondrous thing 😮

 

Anywaaaaaay...

Step 2. No redeem if account has 1 in existance ANYWHERE in the world ( even in fleet )

( see step 1 somewhere above )

 

Both these should be effective ways to control how many of these ships are redeemed and where.  They should never be an instant ship any where.  Hell can you redeem them in an enemy port?

6 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

If they cannot change the ships redeemable issue by law they will remain p2w. Players that don't buy them will pay the price for not having them. The price being them having to go out and look for and capture a ship in open sea and not redeeming. 

They really shot them selve in the foot by listing to much detail.  I thought ever 48 hours would make more since as the yacht is every 24.  Bring in a 4th rate and make it every 72 hours.  

The way around this is they make them limited ships deal for current backers.  Change the sales and repost up what the new ones are and leave things like redeemable open to be adjusted.  Or just make those ships craftable too and not locked behind stupid reward chance RNG to get the BP.  Like all backers get the BP free but after release you have to buy the dlc or buy a ship in game from a backer that crafted.  Crafter bought ships can be traded and keep.

the other thing is limit what they get from the note.  All notes are 3/5 only with chance of perks.  Same for all crafter ships in non captured ports.  The only way to get a 4/5 or 5/5 ship is crafting in a clan owned port.  Make it so ceafted ships are always worth more no matter what.

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Sir Texas Sir

[Njord]

@admin I have an interesting proposition. Why not exclude redeemed DLC ships from Port Battles due to their special designation "Imported" but give DLC owners 1 permit per day or week, so they can craft a DLC ship that can actually enter PBs? 

 

[Zoky]

9 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

9 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

 

If they cannot change the ships redeemable issue by law they will remain p2w.

They can change ships stats  just like world of tanks or war thunder changes stats of premium tanks and planes all the time or how ArmA 3 changed stats of riffles sold in marksmen DLC for example. That is just excuse to continue selling broken ships and blind fanboys continue to justify it. I like NA but I'm not blind. I don't care for "they need to make money". I don't own or work for their company so I don't care about their financial situation and nether should you (unless you are on their payroll). What I care as a gamer is fair business practices and selling P2W content is not fair to us gamers and NA devs should be ashamed for not fixing this situation already. And @admin no surprice is not better then hecules, not to mention that there is no counter to trollship (la requin) at all!

Edited December 19, 2018 by Zoky

[jodgi]

13 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

<snipped for your scrolling pleasure>

So, you wrote all that text just to bang your head against the wall? Or maybe it was the best "pls, no more dlc ships!" wall of text so far?

Quote

I believe they break RVR ship building logistics

I believe that only works in your (collective) imagination. It has never really worked so far in my view. People do the darndest things to subvert that role-play; alts, backroom deals and so on... Every time we've tried features and mechanics that make things matter we've had a backlash and those features were changed or rolled back. We could do it again and we would suffer the same consequences. For things to matter the losing side has to suffer and that does not a fun game make. People give up and log off.

The original Axis and Allies boardgame had this feature or weakness, depending on your perspective. War of attrition kinda worked in A&A and the last half of the rather long gameplay was boring as everyone could see where things were going. Everyone who says it makes sense is ofcourse right, I simply challenge the idea that it is an attractive feature in a game.

Quote

Why does someone that pays 10 euro get unlimited access to ships and I have to grind them?????

But that's the entire selling point of prem ships or vehicles! You say it like it's a revelation!? Some people like to grind; By their own admission or by observing admin's statistics. Some people like eco, hauling, trading and crafting in and by itself. Some people don't and may choose to part with some cash to skip things they don't enjoy. I know some view this as evil, but I will say unto you what is evil: People who would force others to endure boredom for their own pleasure.

This is a frikkin' storm in a glass of water, but I guess this is our life now...

Quote

convenience is what makes them P2W.

Some salty dude may have put up that definition of p2w on the internet, but I disagree and disregard.

I still support dlc ships even though I used my herc in pvp for the first time yesterday. It is proven to make people go out and fight and that is a thing that trumps everything else in my view. 

Just to be very clear: I make no attempt at being objective or know some higher truth that transcends emotions. This is my subjective opinion.

[Ellias]

I loose my appetite to fight an enemy when I realize it is DLC ship (free ship). 

Regardless of PB or OW, whatever you pay for gives you something directly related with combat (ships, cannons, upgrades, various bonuses) "(or almost) for free" [in game] is P2W.

If it gives you "access" to certain content unavailable to others by keeping the balance is DLC. 

You can nerf Requine and Hercules to oblivion, they still will be p2w ships. 

Since when we start having playing time issues to craft ships? I guess it started with introduction of those 2 ships

Don't tell me it is too hard and time consuming to craft a surprise, while you can sail and annoy whoever you want with Hercules for hours.

 

[jodgi]

13 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

No I am looking for a solution so everyone is happy. Fix the god damn mechanics and let everyone play the game. Period.

I like the intent, it's commendable.

Refer to the fallout after austerity patch and adjust if you want to have realistic expectations. (optional)

[jodgi]

10 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

If they cannot change the ships redeemable issue by law they will remain p2w

Only if you doggedly insist on labeling convenience as p2w. (optional)

[Hethwill]

55 minutes ago, jodgi said:

People do the darndest things to subvert that role-play; alts, backroom deals and so on...

The raw merciless sad truth. Guess it must be a MMO culture thing...

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, Ellias said:

You can nerf Requine and Hercules to oblivion, they still will be p2w ships.

That's how it looks when sense leaves the building and principle takes over. Pop-quiz; What does the "W" stand for?

 

1 hour ago, Ellias said:

Since when we start having playing time issues to craft ships? I guess it started with introduction of those 2 ships 

Don't tell me it is too hard and time consuming to craft a surprise

Easy peasy and fairly quick since I use my alts to bypass the limitations your sense of "meaning" has imposed. Clicked out two surps yesterday in anticipation of The Settlement PB I couldn't get into anyway (Yay, clanwars!). I ended up screening out and killing an ally, sorry again [PRIV] and [DNP]! I can pay in cash or dubs if that eases your diplomacy.

I started asking for premium ships in 2015 I think.

1 hour ago, Ellias said:

while you can sail and annoy whoever you want with Hercules for hours.

I still do that in own crafted ships. The difference is only in your emotions and you can choose to use your cognitive capacity to adjust and correct involuntary emotions. (optional)

33 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

The raw merciless sad truth. Guess it must be a MMO culture thing...

This is why I don't hold back in poking at and challenging stuff. Many people I like and respect love the sandbox/MMO ideal and it's sometimes a questionable guilty pleasure to agitate. Ah, the emotional cost of being as nice as I am!

[jodgi]

10 hours ago, Wraith said:

are definitely P2W. This is just MMO 101 and anyone who is honest would be forced to agree

So simple that even fools understand, got it!

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

So, you wrote all that text just to bang your head against the wall? Or maybe it was the best "pls, no more dlc ships!" wall of text so far?

I believe that only works in your (collective) imagination. It has never really worked so far in my view. People do the darndest things to subvert that role-play; alts, backroom deals and so on... Every time we've tried features and mechanics that make things matter we've had a backlash and those features were changed or rolled back. We could do it again and we would suffer the same consequences. For things to matter the losing side has to suffer and that does not a fun game make. People give up and log off.

The original Axis and Allies boardgame had this feature or weakness, depending on your perspective. War of attrition kinda worked in A&A and the last half of the rather long gameplay was boring as everyone could see where things were going. Everyone who says it makes sense is ofcourse right, I simply challenge the idea that it is an attractive feature in a game.

But that's the entire selling point of prem ships or vehicles! You say it like it's a revelation!? Some people like to grind; By their own admission or by observing admin's statistics. Some people like eco, hauling, trading and crafting in and by itself. Some people don't and may choose to part with some cash to skip things they don't enjoy. I know some view this as evil, but I will say unto you what is evil: People who would force others to endure boredom for their own pleasure.

This is a frikkin' storm in a glass of water, but I guess this is our life now...

Some salty dude may have put up that definition of p2w on the internet, but I disagree and disregard.

I still support dlc ships even though I used my herc in pvp for the first time yesterday. It is proven to make people go out and fight and that is a thing that trumps everything else in my view. 

Just to be very clear: I make no attempt at being objective or know some higher truth that transcends emotions. This is my subjective opinion.

You're wrong. Convenience is saving time. Getting your ship faster by not crafting is an advantage and P2W. As long as those ships remain redeemables they are P2W. Why you think xp boosters are P2W? If the devs do not make them craftable they are P2W. Just cause some people like to grind doesn't mean people that don't like to grind don't have too by paying. P2W is not about stats and that's my point. Ship balance has nothing to do with ships being P2W in this case because if they were 100% balanced they would be to cheap to rvr. 

You support them because they are personally convenient for you. When did you last port battle? You don't care about rvr so do not defend something that ruins the game for 50% of the players because you hate grinding. I do too. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by HachiRoku

[Hethwill]

17 minutes ago, jodgi said:

This is why I don't hold back in poking at and challenging stuff. Many people I like and respect love the sandbox/MMO ideal and it's sometimes a questionable guilty pleasure to agitate. Ah, the emotional cost of being as nice as I am!

I love a good, solid, as intended sandbox play. Hardest part for me in gaming ( not only pc but also in the table ) is the beardies and similar fauna types - guys that live for the rules and rules bending and forget the experience the game intends to deliver. 

They are like locusts swarms - appear, devour, and disappear.

In the meanwhile devs have to change a million things to accommodate for their depredations...

[staun]

5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

You support them because they are personally convenient for you. When did you last port battle? You don't care about rvr so do not defend something that ruins the game for 50% of the players because you hate grinding. I do too. 

I doubt it is 50% that is against it. But just say it is 50 %. Why ruin something that 50% like, just because you think they are convenient?

[Ellias]

5 minutes ago, staun said:

I doubt it is 50% that is against it. But just say it is 50 %. Why ruin something that 50% like, just because you think they are convenient?

NA Legends were more convenient, you jump pick a ship and fight. The game died in a week.