Possible important bug

[vazco]

@admin I may have found a possible very serious bug. Please let me know whether this scenario is true:

• Prussia, Russia and Commonwealth have their warehouses in ports that can be captured
• Once a warehouse's port is captured, warehouse is blocked
• When warehouse is blocked, a clan looses all harbours it posesses

As a result, if a nation has a single clan, it's enough to win a single PB on their capital to erase this nation from a map. Is this true? If so, I think this should be patched very soon.

 

EDIT:

Proposed solution - make clan's wallet abstract, without a location. If warehouse is captured, clan could still access their funds, but not their resources. This way loosing warehouse still hurts, however in the same time many small issues disappear, including this one.

Edited November 26, 2017 by vazco

[Wojtek]

I agree, in the case of the Barahona takeover, our nation is going to explode.

[Makrian]

This is not a bug. It is a feature.

That's because this 3 are "impossible" nations. Very hard, no safezone, no capital. You have to put the things into freetowns if u need something "safe".

[troody]

Solution: Delete ur Warehouse before the Maintenance and directly rebuild it somewhere else.

[Bart Smith]

39 minutes ago, troody said:

Solution: Delete ur Warehouse before the Maintenance and directly rebuild it somewhere else.

Solution get people to defend:)

[Jean Ribault]

That doesn't seem to be a bug to me.  You chose impossible.  So defend at all costs, or if you lose your ports, you start from scratch and rebuild and reconquer.  That sounds about right to me for "impossible".  There is no safety or refuge at all, and that's the way it is intended.  Right?  

Edited November 26, 2017 by Jean Ribault

[Jean Ribault]

It's really not a smartass reply to say that someone chose impossible.  It's not meant like "haha you deal with it", it's meant that for people who really want a hardcore challenge that's what you are getting.  Losing all your ports certainly is hardcore, so you have to go up against all odds.  That is really what the impossible is.  How is that flawed when really that's what you are choosing to do?  IMO it's really what you want in order to be a firmly hardcore player.  Those that do want to safely keep warehouses chose not to be the ultimate hardcore, or maybe just like to be part of a more traditional empire, you can't fault people for that.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Jean Ribault

[GrubbyZebra]

I see peter's point. It's one thing for a single player to lost a warehouse due to a captured point, it's another thing entirely for an entire clan to lose a warehouse to the same mechanic. At least until populations are higher and more stable (i.e., never given how MMO's typically end up), clan warehouses should be accessible at least for a grace period after a port capture so that the clan can work to rescue as much of the stores as possible, otherwise there is the risk of losing entire clans to 1 port capture.

Edited November 26, 2017 by BPHick

[George Washington]

Solution people quit. 

[Murdock669]

I think that you dont understand oure problem. Yes we can lose a wherehouse it is ok... but if we we lose main city then we lose all port?!? every ports that we get... it is stupid... it schouldent be right...

[vazco]

12 hours ago, Makrian said:

This is not a bug. It is a feature.

That's because this 3 are "impossible" nations. Very hard, no safezone, no capital. You have to put the things into freetowns if u need something "safe".

That's not the point. We can loose warehouse, it's ok. To explain one more time - it we loose a single battle on a capital, even if we had the whole map conquered, we would loose all ports in one day for this loss of a single battle. In one day all our ports will become neutral. It's impossible to win every single battle all the time. This is too risky and out of sense.

A simple and elegant solution would be to keep nation's funds away from warehouse, in a "wallet" that don't have a location. We can loose all resources, it's not a problem - as long as we keep our other ports that we conquered, as they can be paid from this abstract wallet. It's also historical - noone kept all their gold resources in one place in game timeframe already. Accounting was developed, banks existed for a long time. 

We can't have eco in freetown. Imagine what would happen there if we were sailing traders regularly from a single harbour that everyone can enter.

We can't have a guarantee that after every lost PB on a capital we will have someone online who can delete it. Even if we do, we would loose all our resources in the process. It would be more fair to be able to reconquer the warehouse.

 

@admin, again - I would ask you to look into this. Otherwise, once a new nation pisses off some other nation and their capital is captured just a single time, this community will shrink. Peopole will start quitting due to a single lost PB. It's better to react before this happens.

[vazco]

12 hours ago, Bart Smith said:

Solution get people to defend:)

...and win every single time. And provoke an attack on a capital of another new nation, so that they're the first who have this issue and their people quit, not yours. Afterwards, problem will be patched or game will loose players from 3 nations. Still - as you said, it's a solution. I just prefer an alternative one.

[vazco]

8 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

Those that do want to safely keep warehouses chose not to be the ultimate hardcore.

Again, it's not about loosing a warehouse. It's about loosing ALL YOUR PORTS in a single night, due to loosing of a SINGLE port battle once. I feel I have to quote you directly, as people tend to not to read with understanding otherwise.

[Eyesore]

The new nations have only one clan in them? The new nationclans can not work together and support eachother should one of those clans lose their homeport?

Mechanics still prevent the defeated clan from paying maintenance on their other owned ports ...  I don't know this, but can individuals pay for the maintenance? Perhaps the maintenance for ports should be paid weekly instead of daily? (It will still be impossible, but atleast you have a week to plan/reorganize?) I also thought it would be possible to get to your warehouse with a smuggler, but that doesn't seem to be the case (good luck pulling that off anyway on a port where the new owner is aware that a whole warehouse was left behind and that it has to be moved, but atleast you have a small chance).

As the devs have said that it is impossibly difficult to play these nations ... perhaps losing all ports when you lose your warehouse is intended? Only way to recover is work with other clans to get you back on your feet and recapture the lost ports, or have them captured by an ally (to recover later). Could friendly clans pay for maintenance?

[Jean Ribault]

27 minutes ago, vazco said:

Again, it's not about loosing a warehouse. It's about loosing ALL YOUR PORTS in a single night, due to loosing of a SINGLE port battle once. I feel I have to quote you directly, as people tend to not to read with understanding otherwise.

Pot calling the kettle black man.  YOU did not read MY post.  Read again.  That's exactly what I said.

Sounds like it's too hard for you.  I would recommend a different nation.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Jean Ribault

[Bart Smith]

2 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

Guess none of you even understands the basics that it's not a problem with new nations but problem with game mechanic affecting all nations. New nations can just keep warehouse in free port and be 100% safe as well.

Solution may be possibility to have more than one clan warehouse. In Potbs society can have a few of them. That was great help in organize a clan economy. Why we can't have same here? Just make next clan warehouse cost more.

Ofc we can have CW in one of freeports but this will only add another wasting time feature. To haul all mats there and back...i think we should focus on cut time wasting in NA since lot of peeps complain this is one of most anoyinng in open world. So some fix is essential on this asap.

[Raekur]

3 hours ago, Eyesore said:

The new nations have only one clan in them? The new nationclans can not work together and support eachother should one of those clans lose their homeport?

Mechanics still prevent the defeated clan from paying maintenance on their other owned ports ...  I don't know this, but can individuals pay for the maintenance? Perhaps the maintenance for ports should be paid weekly instead of daily? (It will still be impossible, but atleast you have a week to plan/reorganize?) I also thought it would be possible to get to your warehouse with a smuggler, but that doesn't seem to be the case (good luck pulling that off anyway on a port where the new owner is aware that a whole warehouse was left behind and that it has to be moved, but atleast you have a small chance).

As the devs have said that it is impossibly difficult to play these nations ... perhaps losing all ports when you lose your warehouse is intended? Only way to recover is work with other clans to get you back on your feet and recapture the lost ports, or have them captured by an ally (to recover later). Could friendly clans pay for maintenance?

Maintenance is paid for each day from the clan warehouse. Any clan member of Officer rank can access the warehouse and deposit gold into the warehouse for use in paying the maintenance. As far as a location to place a warehouse, a good starting point would be a freeport as it can not be assaulted and captured. This is the same as it is for nations with the capital ports and offer the same advantages and disadvantages. They can't be captured but can not be modified towards labor hours, taxes, or production. So the usual way is to establish the warehouse at a secure location and move it later if the clans focus changes and they can secure more area. But in no way is this a bug, the 3 Invading nations are just that, not established in any way and are intended to be for hard core / highest difficulty players or possibly nomadic groups which would be best served basing out of a freeport.

[admin]

Couple of weeks ago we made the following change to the system

• Maintenance fees are debited from the clan warehouse
• If the clan warehouse does not have maintenance fees are debited from the founder wallet

Just make sure you have enough funds on the founder wallet.

[Bart Smith]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Couple of weeks ago we made the following change to the system

• Maintenance fees are debited from the clan warehouse
• If the clan warehouse does not have maintenance fees are debited from the founder wallet

Just make sure you have enough funds on the founder wallet.

So for example if we (PLC) loose pb and lost port with our clan warehouse we still keep rest of ports if (me as a clan creator) have money for unkeep ports? In our nation there is only 2 clans our and one person single one with no clan warehouse i guess.

[admin]

3 hours ago, Bart Smith said:

So for example if we (PLC) loose pb and lost port with our clan warehouse we still keep rest of ports if (me as a clan creator) have money for unkeep ports? In our nation there is only 2 clans our and one person single one with no clan warehouse i guess.

yes

[vazco]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Couple of weeks ago we made the following change to the system

• Maintenance fees are debited from the clan warehouse
• If the clan warehouse does not have maintenance fees are debited from the founder wallet

Just make sure you have enough funds on the founder wallet.

Great, good to know. Does income from port tax go to owner's wallet as well in this case? Or do we have to have enough funds to cover all net costs, not lowered by tax income?

[Bart Smith]

14 hours ago, admin said:

yes

Question: so i can cover port unkeep but what about port income in this situation (without CW) ? Are this will be paid into my wallet?

[admin]

16 hours ago, Bart Smith said:

Question: so i can cover port unkeep but what about port income in this situation (without CW) ? Are this will be paid into my wallet?

Port income comes to the warehouse. And debits from the warehouse.
You cannot access the warehouse if your port is controlled by others, but the warehouse keeps working .