Reinforcment Zones - Yay or Nay?

[Fowlplaychiken]

Remove fleet missions being offered in the safe zone and it would be fine as-is IMO.

[CaptVonGunn]

8 hours ago, ltdan83 said:

I think the zones should be the same as they are now.  I think Devs should make a new kind of mission.  Reduce the gold amount on missions close to shore and add a new mission out of the reinforcement zone and make that award the gold we have in missions now.  If you want to make gold of missions you have to risk something.

I would agree sort of.. Combat missions through 5th Rates stay the way they are no matter where they are.. 4th rate and up and fleet missions as you suggest

[Barbancourt]

7 hours ago, rediii said:

Making the first missions easier for noobs would make retention better too.

 

Missions suck.  Somebody just needs to tell the noobs to find where a lynx or cutter spawns and just hit that repeatedly.  Lynx seem to have the best return in looted repairs for the time invested.

[monk33y]

Is there no way of controlling the safe zones by the number of ports captured.

Lots of ports owned by nation = tiny safe zone 

Only a few ports = big safe zone

 

Wouldn't that be a simple solution to a complex problem 

[Rebrall]

On 23/09/2017 at 1:04 AM, TommyShelby said:

Every PvP'er i've talked to since the last patch is telling me to not come back. And here i am talking about PvP'ers that enjoy OW PvP and those that do not run away from an even fight.  

Them telling me that the game is only getting worse for our type of playstyle is absolutely not what i am looking for. 

What is sad here is, all along i have tried to advocate for the fact that there all playstyles should be viable. The Solo player, The small groups, the mid size groups, the large groups, the traders, the crafters. There should be room for all of them, i've made tons of suggestions on how to make this work but the developers have chosen a different route.
A route which alienate the solo players and small groups. 

In my opinion that is wrong. 
 

really?

My clan on global doesn't have a problem with them just stay out of them lol

we hunt in small groups or solo rarely as a large group 

[Jef]

So some our clan members are not interested in RVR anymore due to the fact that they don't see the need.... Their comment, we have everything in KPR and around Jamaica, why would we even want our own port, let alone protect nation ports? 

And I can't disagree with that statement, there is currently no real reason to go outside the protected area, it's so large, that they can sail all around the jamaica island without even paying attention. 

They had fun for a few days doing missions and now it's been a week now since most of them logged in... they got bored already.

I don't think safezones should stay the way it is, it needs to be reduced and there has to be a reason to get out of it once you 'level' up.
I feel safezones have taken away the thrill of hunting or being hunted out of the game.
 

[Sunleader]

The Reinforcement Zones are Fine I think.

I agree with Marking em on the Map.

But Size is Fine I think.

They Should Cover an Large enough Area for Players to Play the Game in.

 

I do Think in Fact that every Port should have an Reinforcement Zone.

3 Types of Zones to be Precise.

 

1.

Nation Capital Region should have the Current large and powerful Zone.

Minimum 200% the Attacker BR as Reinforcement.

2.

Any Owned and Secured Port thats a minimum away from any Enemy Port Should have an Reinforcement Zone 50% the Size of the current one. That will Spawn Strong Reinforcements but not as Overpowered as the Current ones.

Minimum 100% Maximum 150% of Attacker BR as Reinforcement.

3.

Any other Owned Port should get a Reinforcement Zone 10% Size and Spawning some Minimal Reinforcements that even out Ganking Squads and maybe offer an Escape Chance but wont really equal the Attacker.

Minimum 50% Maximum 100% of the Attacker BR as Reinforcement.

[Jef]

9 hours ago, Sunleader said:

The Reinforcement Zones are Fine I think.

I agree with Marking em on the Map.

But Size is Fine I think.

They Should Cover an Large enough Area for Players to Play the Game in.

 

I do Think in Fact that every Port should have an Reinforcement Zone.

3 Types of Zones to be Precise.

 

If you want a large protected zone, play on a pve server, when playing on a pvp server, there should not be so much protection..

[Sunleader]

12 hours ago, Jef said:

If you want a large protected zone, play on a pve server, when playing on a pvp server, there should not be so much protection..

Balance is the Keyword.

Pure PvP Servers are just as Bad as pure PvE Servers.

The PvE Server is 100% PvE thats boring on long term.

But the PvP Server without Protection zones burned down the playerbase cause tons of people quit and new people dont get a foot in the door.

 

If you want to have both. Player Staying in the Game AND Player getting into the Game you need to mix Servers.

You need to make sure that Players can do PvP but also can avoid it.

 

If you read my full post you notice that what I do would never protect trade actually.

Cause 10% size of current area is an area around the port you cover in like 10 seconds top. You need 3-5 minutes to the next port. So your not protected for 95% of the way.

And the Ports far off the frontlines in secured tertitory being protected by a strong Protection zone in fact promotes actual PvP.

Because PvPers are pushed towards the area around the Frontlines and contested ports making it far easier to find fights while preventing the ganking of Noobs.

 

8 hours ago, Wraith said:

I say leave it as it is but make it so raw products can not be produced and eurotrader does not operate inside the zone. We must have reasons for regular trader and thus escort/coast guard activities to occur outside the reinforcement zone to increase the likelihood of finding meaningful PvP opportunities outside reinforcement zones.

It wont.

It would just feel like your punished on top of your death.

It would defeat the purpose of the protected areas entirely because they would not offer a way to recover after you got defeated.

Instead people who lost their stuff would feel punished by the game making it even harder for them now and would be more likely to quit it entirely.

 

Instead it would make more sense to run the NPC Economy here.

Ports on the Frontlines with small or no Protection should consume more goods and pay better prizes.

Giving Traders a reason to Ship Goods there.

At the same time these Ports should start selling Weapons and Ships they usually dont and that at a Cheaper Prize to attract people who want to fight and to make it cheaper for them to fight.

 

Far better to get people for PvP WITHOUT creating chokes were people leave the Game

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

If safe zones are indicated on the map and reduced this could work but low rank missions should still pop in it and how to call reeinforcement should also be explained and more easy to find for new players.

At the moment, safe zone negate the "hardmode-difficulty" indications for one-port nations as their safe zone cover a larger zone than their previous starting ports while bigger nations have lost big part of their previous starting ports.

Maybe bring back the idea of pve (or mega safe zone) pacific coast, with sailing west in the pacific ocean tp you between us east-coast and bermuda, and sailing south of the pacific border tp you between santo tome de guyana and bridgetown. All west coast ports open to all but with basic ressources only. (that could also be a small scale europe map instead of pacific with capital zones here)

 

That way players or nations willing to rebuild can start or rebuild from there, new players can discover from there safely, etc..  Caribbean can keep the uncapturable ports but that's all.

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[IndianaGeoff]

On 9/21/2017 at 12:32 PM, Otto Kohl said:

Reinforments should be only noob protection - untill you reach certain character lvl.

Can I please have a spot to take a new 1st rate out and fight it without arranging a formal group?

Leave it like it is.

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Can I please have a spot to take a new 1st rate out and fight it without arranging a formal group?

Leave it like it is.

 

Some People just like to see the World Burn.

 

Its the Funny thing about PvPers. They dont even realize that they are the ones ruining their Game the most by demanding Unrestricted PvP.

Cause Unrestricted PvP Means everyone but the Hardcore PvPers leaves the Game. And Hardcore PvPers are an very small niche of Gamers usually resulting in these Games then having hardly any PvP cause you only got like 100 people Online during Prime Time.

The more a Player has the ability to Withdraw and avoid PvP till he is ready the more Players will get into the Game and actually stay in the Game until they are good enough to PvP and thus leave the Safezone by themselves to look for PvP and not be Frustrated if they lose.

 

And no.

before the other Guy Asks.

Having a certain lvl or Ship is NOT being ready for PvP.

So this rubbish with Newbe Protection till a certain lvl never works....

It only means the Palyers will play to that lvl and then get Raped by people that are max level and quit in frustration....

 

[Farrago]

Keep the zones the same size BUT anything bigger than 5th rate missions should be outside the safe zones. 

 

Edited September 29, 2017 by Farrago

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, rediii said:

Problem like now is that there is no incentive to leave aafezones. In other games you have better loot, rare ressources, better income of money but in NA you actually lose money(cost of ports), have the same ressources (except cartagena maybe) and the same loot even tho you have bigger risk.

This is whats wrong atm. 

Safezones need to be ingame and you have to be able to do quite some stuff there, but you should be able to do even more in unsafe zones.

Also the safezones atm are too big for sweden and denmark aswell as partly france. The safezones include several captureable ports of these nations and this doesnt make so much sense but its not that big of a problem.

Bigger problem are the lack of incentives to leave it but there are also bigger problems which need a fix atm like new player experience.

 

Thats why I said to make the safezones into an General mechanic depending on the frontlines and make ports at the frontline pay more for goods and offer equipment cheaper so people have a reason to go there.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Farrago said:

Keep the zones the same size BUT anything bigger than 5th rate missions should be outside the safe zones. 

 

So all new players get raped by 2nd and 1st rates the moment they reach 4th rate ?

Great Idea. But seeing that you dont want new Players in the Game how about we just disable the Purchase Button on Steam.

Same effect but with far less bad reviews

[Farrago]

16 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

So all new players get raped by 2nd and 1st rates the moment they reach 4th rate ?

Great Idea. But seeing that you dont want new Players in the Game how about we just disable the Purchase Button on Steam.

Same effect but with far less bad reviews

If you were to look through a lot of my old posts, you'd see that I'm constantly advocating for ways to make the game better and more friendly to new players.

If a player is high enough rank to crew a 4th rate and he is in a 4th rate, he is no longer new. I would certainly hope he would be able to deal with or escape 1st or 2nd rates. A speed 3rd? Perhaps more of a challenge. What I would like to see is some danger element of facing enemy players in order to earn the stupid amount of gold, XP, and marks that are earned in 4th and higher missions. I like the money, but for the big bucks we need to leave the safe zone. 

[Sunleader]

8 minutes ago, Farrago said:

If you were to look through a lot of my old posts, you'd see that I'm constantly advocating for ways to make the game better and more friendly to new players.

If a player is high enough rank to crew a 4th rate and he is in a 4th rate, he is no longer new. I would certainly hope he would be able to deal with or escape 1st or 2nd rates. A speed 3rd? Perhaps more of a challenge. What I would like to see is some danger element of facing enemy players in order to earn the stupid amount of gold, XP, and marks that are earned in 4th and higher missions. I like the money, but for the big bucks we need to leave the safe zone. 

If you Really think someone who just got his First 4th Rate would even stand so much as a chance against an Veteran PvPer then Sorry but either you suck or your lying because you want to force people into PvP so you get Victims.

 

No offense.

But someone can get a 1st Rate and still be Completely new at PvP.

And if he cant use that 1st Rate without being Raped cause he cant use it inside the safe zones.

He will never learn using it anywhere good enough to stand a Chance in PvP.

Instead he will be Raped by the PvPers 1-3 times and will Ragequit with a Negative Revuew which in essence says *Screw you guys this Game Sux. I am out*

 

Guys get this into your Head.

You will NEVER get any Population to PvP with if you Force People into PvP.

Because People who are Forced into PvP dont have Fun. Get Frustrated and Leave the Game entirely.

Force People to PvP = only Hardcore PvPers play the Game at all.

 

That so hard to understand????

Why do you think that MMORPGs which restrict PvP to Battlezones have 1000-3000 Players Average Online while MMORPGs that allow PvP everywhere have 50-200 Players Average Online????

 

 

If I do PvP Voluntarily and get Killed I say: well. Bad luck but hey I am learning.

If I get Forced to PvP abd get Killed I ragequit and say: Beeeeep you beeep I am out.

 

That such an difficult concept to understand ?

[Liq]

4 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

If I do PvP Voluntarily and get Killed I say: well. Bad luck but hey I am learning.

If I get Forced to PvP abd get Killed I ragequit and say: Beeeeep you beeep I am out.

First case being going to enemy waters and attacking others "not willing to pvp"? This has two sides. And I think making the difference of willing and unwilling pvp in a MMO on a pvp server is odd. Sure there needs to be the possibility to recover but as it is right now there is 0 reason to leave the safezone because money is super easy and ressources are inside that zone aswell.

IMO what we need is heavily reduced pve rewards inside the safezone and/or increased rewards outside the zone. Might also have to do with how hostility is generated now, usually the place is crowded with dozens of players for an hour or two with lineships, but there is little to no room for small group players in frigs or similar. 

[Sunleader]

11 minutes ago, Liq said:

First case being going to enemy waters and attacking others "not willing to pvp"? This has two sides. And I think making the difference of willing and unwilling pvp in a MMO on a pvp server is odd. Sure there needs to be the possibility to recover but as it is right now there is 0 reason to leave the safezone because money is super easy and ressources are inside that zone aswell.

IMO what we need is heavily reduced pve rewards inside the safezone and/or increased rewards outside the zone. Might also have to do with how hostility is generated now, usually the place is crowded with dozens of players for an hour or two with lineships, but there is little to no room for small group players in frigs or similar. 

Not really.

My first attempts at PvP were when ALL Ports had Reinforcements.

We Dueled in the open Sea or Attacked each others Clan and War Fleets.

 

Funny.

But despite Protection zones everywhere there was no problem to find PvP.

 

 

And lol go ahead.

But all you will achieve by Punishing PvE Players and attempting to Force People out of Safezones.

Is that these People will leave the Game entirely and you will be sitting here with 50 people on the Server.

 

 

Repeating it again guys.

People Play Games to have Fun.

If you Force em into something they dont want they dont have Fun.

And as soon as they associate the game with frustration instead of fun you have guaranteed that they will leave the game for good and never come back.

 

 

The last attempt of the PvP crowd to force People into PvP resulted in the Playerbase losing two thirds of its players.

 

The Devs learned the lesson and added the Safezones hoping to get back at least some of the players they lost and start retaining some of the new players.

But it seems you learned nothing from it

Edited September 29, 2017 by Sunleader

[Liq]

7 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Not really.

My first attempts at PvP were when ALL Ports had Reinforcements.

We Dueled in the open Sea or Attacked each others Clan and War Fleets.

 

Funny.

But despite Protection zones everywhere there was no problem to find PvP.

 

 

And lol go ahead.

But all you will achieve by Punishing PvE Players and attempting to Force People out of Safezones.

Is that these People will leave the Game entirely and you will be sitting here with 50 people on the Server.

 

 

Repeating it again guys.

People Play Games to have Fun.

If you Force em into something they dont want they dont have Fun.

And as soon as they associate the game with frustration instead of fun you have guaranteed that they will leave the game for good and never come back.

 

 

The last attempt of the PvP crowd to force People into PvP resulted in the Playerbase losing two thirds of its players.

 

The Devs learned the lesson and added the Safezones hoping to get back at least some of the players they lost and start retaining some of the new players.

But it seems you learned nothing from it

Its not really FORCING players to leave the safezone but giving more opportunities to meet other players and therefore create PvP on a PvP server. I liked the pvp event zone area around navasse to la tortue.

And I used to have more fun with 250-300 players on than now, roaming around and looking for balanced fights. I know not everyone wants balanced fights and there would be massive seal clubbing à la 5v1 in enemy waters, hence my suggestion of applying an auto signaling rule for the uncappable regions where defenders can join until they got 1.5x the attackers BR

Im still not too sure why the pure "pve crowd" even is on a pvp server? Its not like there is a complete seperate server where you cannot be disturbed at all or something.. Most likely because of double standards, e.g. "being ganked sucks and makes the game retarded", but when doing it to others its fine. Thats how an ow MMo works

[Demsity]

8 minutes ago, Liq said:

Im still not too sure why the pure "pve crowd" even is on a pvp server? Its not like there is a complete seperate server where you cannot be disturbed at all or something..

I have though this aswell...

 

[Lady Victoria]

Some safe zone are too big for some nation and too small for others.

As for example Swedish and Danish zone are too big

[Sunleader]

29 minutes ago, Liq said:

Its not really FORCING players to leave the safezone but giving more opportunities to meet other players and therefore create PvP on a PvP server. I liked the pvp event zone area around navasse to la tortue.

And I used to have more fun with 250-300 players on than now, roaming around and looking for balanced fights. I know not everyone wants balanced fights and there would be massive seal clubbing à la 5v1 in enemy waters, hence my suggestion of applying an auto signaling rule for the uncappable regions where defenders can join until they got 1.5x the attackers BR

Im still not too sure why the pure "pve crowd" even is on a pvp server? Its not like there is a complete seperate server where you cannot be disturbed at all or something.. Most likely because of double standards, e.g. "being ganked sucks and makes the game retarded", but when doing it to others its fine. Thats how an ow MMo works

No Offense but of course it is.

If you Nerf PvE Rewards that means to Progress I need to PvP.

Meaning I would not PvP because I want to. But because I am forced to. To Progress.

Lol yes.

Because you had Fun in the Short Destruction Phase.

Where you still had lots of Players to Hunt from the time where Safezones were Everywhere.

Thing is they would have left soon as well.

 

 

And Mate.

See that is the Fatal Flaw in your Thinking.

PvE OR PvP.

Ever tought that maybe People might be mixed ?

And that Maybe. When they hunt NPCs to get better Equipment for their PvP Ship they dont want to be Killed by some PvPer who picked him off ?

The *PURE* PvE Community is just as Niche as the *PURE* PvP Community.

Most People want PvP. But not everywhere and all the time

 

9 minutes ago, rediii said:

Things have to be adjusted. Risk should give you more reward / the reward you get now from pve missions bht pve inside the safezone should give for example 50% less.

 

Honest Answer.

If they did that I would Quit straight away.

If I get home from work and have only 1 hour to play before I head to Bed.

Thus staying in the safezone cause I am not in the mood or dont have time for PvP. And get Punished for it by getting 50% less Reward.

This Game would be off my Harddisk straight away.

Just like back then when they removed Reinforcements.

 

Best way to get Players out of your Game? Punish em for not using a certain feature.

 

You really dont get this do you???

The People who only stay in safezones will not PvP. If you remove the Safezone they wont become PvPers. They just leave.

 

 

I agree that Ports and War needs bigger Rewards tough.

But the War should not reduce PvE Rewards.

It should just get its own Rewards.

 

In Fact PvE should be increased here.

NPC Traffic should Generate Taxes as well. So Ports actually make Profit as long as your able to Protect them and the NPCs of your Faction around it.

Would also create a new gameplay cause hunting NPCs between the Enemy Ports would increase hostility for the attacker and reduce income for the Defender.

Hence Battles moving outside the safezones into the Trade Routes BETWEEN the Ports.

 

 

There is alot of ways to do this without driving Players that are not Pure PvP Players away...

[Guest]

Do you want a dynamic world where anything can happen anywhere anytime or just a bunch of opt-in-only areas that are either 100% PvE or 100% PvP?

Still boggles my mind how people could join a PvP server and an open world multiplayer game yet expect total control over what's going to happen to them.

[Sunleader]

6 minutes ago, Aegir said:

Do you want a dynamic world where anything can happen anywhere anytime or just a bunch of opt-in-only areas that are either 100% PvE or 100% PvP?

Still boggles my mind how people could join a PvP server and an open world multiplayer game yet expect total control over what's going to happen to them.

Its called *Playing a Game*

If you want to have no Control on what happens to you I recommend visiting a Domina lol

1 minute ago, rediii said:

Lower rewards and gameprogression only outside of safezone makes just too much sense. You can still do everything inside the safezone but if yoj take the risk and actually go out you get rewarded for taking the risk.

The way you think this game would success it the other extreme we had. You want everyone in the safezone and only bored people to be outside of it. You will not get more players, in fact you only get players leaving fast.

Good that you atleast agree that rvr shojld pay itself and be worthy to do.

Fun Fact.

With Safezones on Every Port was around 1000+ online at average

With no Safezones it dropped to 300-400.

 

And no it makes no Sense at all.

Why Should I be Punished for Playing the Part I find more Fun. While your Rewarded for Playing the Part you find more Fun ?

This would  mean PvP -> PvE

You no PvP? Then you are lower Class Player

[Liq]

18 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Most People want PvP. But not everywhere and all the time

No offense but this is opportunistic statement doesnt make sense. By your logic there would be no pvp because in order for there to be pvp, you need to be in enemy waters (since there is no reason to be in the middle of nowhere in no nations waters whatsoever), and by being in enemy waters, one side will always be "NOT looking for pvp". IMO as soon as you set sail and leave the port, you're agreeing to the fact that you're playing on a pvp server and a target to anyone. You actually got a 3 minute battle timer so if you get tagged right outside capital, you can still call out for help and get players joining which got the call when still inside port