PVE Server and PVE zones - Preliminary announcement.

[admin]

Just now, koltes said:

Fair enough, but is there any economy changes that worth testing at the moment or are you planning such changes in the near future?

 

npc's will stop producing raw materials is the main change (already on testbed), some changes to trading, missions, npc stock, npc loot are coming to test beed soon.

[Koltes]

1 minute ago, admin said:

npc's will stop producing raw materials is the main change (already on testbed), some changes to trading, missions, npc stock, npc loot are coming to test beed soon.

Have you considered global market? Trade hubs? Action house? Globilizing economy will create movement of the surplus that is now simply accumulated without entering the market.

[Jesters-Ink]

9 minutes ago, admin said:

Fleets were still there and were the cause of major set of complaints. The problem with capping NPC line ships is this - it creates so much money supply that it ruins all economy. 
POTBS does not allow capture from NPCs, EVE too. We are really struggling with trying to balance this mechanic with the reality.

That's fair enough on the line ship caps, but you also took away group attacks on fleets on the PvE server only.

That was the clan killer and with nothing to do but cap smuggler flags in the PvE zones, I hope fleets will have smuggler flags too, or there is absolutely no point to the PvE zones. What are PvE players expected to do there? 

Let me add, I'm not interested in PotBS or Eve. I bought Eve and when I found out what kind of game it was, it stayed in its wrapper. The way things are going, NA will end up the same way.

One of the guys we talked into buying the game only last week is already contemplating a refund, based on the new updates.

Just give us something to do in the PvE zone or we'll be back to Elite ;-).

Edited March 21, 2017 by Jesters-Ink

[AngryPanCake]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

If there is no asset wipe all assets and ships will be moved to redeemables. We are currently trying franticly to save the assets and have no answer yet. 
We will provide the decision tomorrow. If we don't wipe assets we won't be able to test economy changes and mission changes before release. 

I think it makes sense if the economy is being overhauled to re-balance the new OW with 2 zones in it.

However, would you be kind enough to clarify these 2 statements:

"The only way to fight in the PVE zones will be to attack smugglers" and  "PVE zone cant be exploited. you cant attack anyone."

Thank you,

APC

[admin]

5 minutes ago, Jesters-Ink said:

That's fair enough on the line ship caps, but you also took away group attacks on fleets on the PvE server only.

That was the clan killer and with nothing to do but cap smuggler flags in the PvE zones, I hope fleets will have smuggler flags too, or there is absolutely no point to the PvE zones. What are PvE players expected to do there?

the memory you have is from the time where there were no alliances and fleets were not based for hostility generation. 
Initially all fleets were based everywhere and you could find enemies in your home region.
For hostility this system was changed that British region has British bots. 

Historical - but huge mistake gameplay wise. New player could not find the target for hours. 

Testbed already has the old bot distribution. 

[Koltes]

Just now, Wraith said:

Have you considered AI transported goods on open world to fulfill player contracts?

This is similar to @koltes suggestion of a "global" market.

Numbers of AI traders of course could be tweaked in number to suit the number of players trading, but it seems to me we shouldn't impose trading on players that want to produce and fight anymore than we should impose crafting and trading on those that just want to fight, etc.

Instead of AI better still player made delivery contracts. This gives starting traders means to make money as well as moving goods arounds

[Sir Texas Sir]

49 minutes ago, admin said:

If there is no asset wipe all assets and ships will be moved to redeemables. We are currently trying franticly to save the assets and have no answer yet. 
We will provide the decision tomorrow. If we don't wipe assets we won't be able to test economy changes and mission changes before release. 

I'm down for either one cause that is what we are here for.  I know a lot of folks will bitch and complain, but to be honest they weren't here to test the game in it's development if they don't understand that.  There hasn't been a full wipe since EA started and that was over a year a go.  I never been in an alpha game that went that long without several wipes of different levels.   So hopefully we will see this soon and it will get to test server to play. We are all ready seeing numbers drop on the servers of folks that are just going to stop playing until the patch gets here.

Could it be possible if what is being keep on the testbed now be put into game for us to give us something to play with until the next patch.  Like the new ship structure stuff and the Pirate vs Pirate stuff?  That would mean less to patch in later too.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[Jesters-Ink]

27 minutes ago, admin said:

the memory you have is from the time where there were no alliances and fleets were not based for hostility generation. 
Initially all fleets were based everywhere and you could find enemies in your home region.
For hostility this system was changed that British region has British bots. 

Historical - but huge mistake gameplay wise. New player could not find the target for hours. 

Testbed already has the old bot distribution. 

And yet you can still group attack fleets in PvP.

[admin]

18 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Have you considered AI transported goods on open world to fulfill player contracts?

 

Bots are not players and sail slowly. None will arrive (they will be sank by players).
But the issue is not even that. Even if the number of shipments allowed is 1, then the number of bots will be equal to 2 week average users. Which is approximately 12000 now for all servers. Total number of possible bots is 1500. Which is way below the possible shipment bots on the OW. 

[Jesters-Ink]

13 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I'm done for either one cause that is what we are here for.  I know a lot of folks will bitch and complain, but to be honest they weren't here to test the game in it's development if they don't understand that.  There hasn't been a full wipe since EA started and that was over a year a go.  I never been in an alpha game that went that long without several wipes of different levels.   So hopefully we will see this soon and it will get to test server to play. We are all ready seeing numbers drop on the servers of folks that are just goign to stop playing until the patch gets here.

Could it be possible if what is being keep on the testbed now be put into game for us to give us something to play with until the next patch.  Like the new ship structure stuff and the Pirate vs Pirate stuff?  That would mean less to patch in later too.

Don't really care about the wipe, bring it on, in fact wipe it all for all I care.

Just make the game worth playing for those who don't want to play Eve or PotBS, if we wanted to play those games, we'd be playing those, not this.

NA started off as a breath of fresh air, sadly, its falling into the same pile those other 2 belong to.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Jesters-Ink

[Koltes]

20 minutes ago, Wraith said:

That would be fine, but the problem I think you'll have for much time to come is the imbalance in traders to pvpers in the game... I think you have to have some kind of backstop.

If you made the trade tool work on live pricing and product buy/sell contracts instead of a stale snapshot then this effectively accomplishes what you propose?

EVE like global market that gives access to buy/sell from any port. That said you still have to physically deliver.

[Sir Texas Sir]

7 minutes ago, Jesters-Ink said:

And yet you can still group attack fleets in PvP.

You can't attack ships in the OW on PvE?   If I'm corrent they are replacing the missions that we had for hostility (which I think ya'll lost) with fleets.   Isn't there still epic missions?   We hit the mega fleets all the time to flip a region cause they give you about 40-60% hostility.  I'm pretty sure you have these same big fleets on PvE.  I mean you did a while back when I popped on there to test something.   So why wouldn't you have these now?  by my understand you will still have AI fleets in your PvE ZONE.

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Then filling player contrats by npc ports is needed. Without "friendly" and easy access to resources and with 1 dura ships the PVP is going to be killed.

How do you get your resources around now?  I don't think anything is going to be changed much other than removal of free towns in PvE zone.  So you would still be using traders and the free ports in game wouldn't you?   Ships being one dura should be cheaper and faster to replace.  My only issue is that of dock space.  We should be able to craft ship notes and keep them in our warehouse until needed.  They can be restricted to only be open in the port the ship was crafted at though.   This will allow you to keep extra ships that the old 5 dura ships would fill before you need to replace them.  Though I'm more just going to wait and see who the new system is.  We can't say something is or isn't going to kill things until we try them.

[Sir Texas Sir]

6 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I get some of my resources by contracts or buying directly in ports if available. I dont have alts to set 20 buildings to gather all resources needed to craft a ship.

 

Both things cant be done in the testbed server.

You can do contracts in testbed, though I admit can't buy anything direct.  Testbed isn't a good example cause well I have yet to see more than 20 folks logged on at one time.   So there isn't much econ being tested there.  Hell I got my crafting up to level 20 the first patch and than when they wiped the chars I gave up on that.  I wanted to build a freaking ship MY WAY not how the redeemables where cause I would never sail ships of those builds for the most part. They realy should of gave us crafting levels on there and some resources to make some things to test them out.

[Jack Jones]

Devs.

Wipe the assets. 

Let's go and test it all properly.

 

 

 

[Maloco]

as well as there is a flag where all can attack you (Smuggler Flag), no will could create one (PVE Flag), so you can not attack and so the pve players can go all over the map?

I do not like the idea the limitation to a safe area

Edited March 21, 2017 by Maloco

[Jesters-Ink]

28 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You can't attack ships in the OW on PvE?   If I'm corrent they are replacing the missions that we had for hostility (which I think ya'll lost) with fleets.   Isn't there still epic missions?   We hit the mega fleets all the time to flip a region cause they give you about 40-60% hostility.  I'm pretty sure you have these same big fleets on PvE.  I mean you did a while back when I popped on there to test something.   So why wouldn't you have these now?  by my understand you will still have AI fleets in your PvE ZONE.

Nope, you can attack them as a single player (Like yeah, we all like taking on 3 x Vics in a Buc's), but as 2 or more group, nope, you cant attack.

[admin]

2 minutes ago, Maloco said:

as well as there is a flag where all can attack you, no will could create one so you can not attack and so the pve players can go all over the map?

PVE zone will act as a PVE server. No attack is possible on the player located in the zone, UNLESS that player has voluntary placed certain conditions on himself (e.g. smuggler flag).

ps But we are not sure about the smuggler still. 

[Maloco]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

PVE zone will act as a PVE server. No attack is possible on the player located in the zone, UNLESS that player has voluntary placed certain conditions on himself (e.g. smuggler flag).

ps But we are not sure about the smuggler still. 

thanks for comment

I do not like the idea the limitation to a safe area

[Remus]

1 hour ago, admin said:

POTBS does not allow capture from NPCs, 

As I remember (and I could well be mistaken as I mostly played as a nat, and I haven't played for a few years), Pirates (and only Pirates) could cap ships from NPCs, but NPCs never sailed elite ships.

From an Economy perspective in PotBS this worked fine. Of course this doesn't necessarily mean it would work in NA.

After the first couple of levels on NA, I only really cap NPC ships because my own ship's hold isn't large enough to contain the cargo. PotBS never had this problem as NPCs sailed around mostly empty. If you think NPCs with cargo is good, then offering a 'send cargo to port' facility would get around this problem. Perhaps you lose some crew (the prize crew) till you re-dock; perhaps you get a gold payment rather than the cargo (this would be historical, certainly as far as Britain in concerned); perhaps on rare occasion the admiralty rewards you with the ship itself (also historical).

[Remus]

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

Have you considered how is going to be gathering all the resources without port production? 

5 buildings wont be enough and nations with low playerbase will suffer a lot cause there wont be enough resources being sold by players.

There are lots and lots of resources, sorry but my maths show me that it is a bad idea.

I sort of agree with you about the 5 buildings limit, but I expect it will be overcome by players farming resources and just selling them in the local shop, which is pretty much what NPCs do now. But we might need more buildings if 5 slots simply don't put enough resources into the economy,

There are only 21 resources by my count.

[Sir Texas Sir]

24 minutes ago, Jesters-Ink said:

Nope, you can attack them as a single player (Like yeah, we all like taking on 3 x Vics in a Buc's), but as 2 or more group, nope, you cant attack.

Man what do ya'll do over there?  That would of been boring as hell even if I wasn't more into the PvP side of things I do grind fleets to test things out.

21 minutes ago, admin said:

PVE zone will act as a PVE server. No attack is possible on the player located in the zone, UNLESS that player has voluntary placed certain conditions on himself (e.g. smuggler flag).

ps But we are not sure about the smuggler still. 

I like the flag concept.  I would keep mine on if I went into that zone just in case any of the PvE guys felt frisky.  You never know they might just find out PvP isn't as bad as they think.  Several of our clan members started out on PvE and than moved over when they got bored.

13 minutes ago, Maloco said:

thanks for comment

I do not like the idea the limitation to a safe area

Your not limited, you are free to leave it any time you want, just have to understand the risk if you do.  No one is going to force you to stay in that zone.

10 minutes ago, Remus said:

As I remember (and I could well be mistaken as I mostly played as a nat, and I haven't played for a few years), Pirates (and only Pirates) could cap ships from NPCs, but NPCs never sailed elite ships.

From an Economy perspective in PotBS this worked fine. Of course this doesn't necessarily mean it would work in NA.

After the first couple of levels on NA, I only really cap NPC ships because my own ship's hold isn't large enough to contain the cargo. PotBS never had this problem as NPCs sailed around mostly empty. If you think NPCs with cargo is good, then offering a 'send cargo to port' facility would get around this problem. Perhaps you lose some crew (the prize crew) till you re-dock; perhaps you get a gold payment rather than the cargo (this would be historical, certainly as far as Britain in concerned); perhaps on rare occasion the admiralty rewards you with the ship itself (also historical).

Yah I think it was only pirates as it was one of the things we complained about the Privateers not being able to capture, but we where able to tag folks out side of the PvP zones if they where flagged or something.  Man it's been ages since I played that game.  Was on Roberts and what ever the AU servers was for a long time as Spain.  Your name sounds familiar so prob from the Forums their.

9 minutes ago, rediii said:

That would be the death of pvp and trader hunting in general

yah a very bad concept doing something like which could be very easly abused.

[Jesters-Ink]

Right on^^, tbh I just went on the testbed server and it looks like even the battle mechanics are turning to shit too.

I will get as much out of it as possible whilst we have a glimmer of a game, but after that . . . I think we just kicking a dead horse in the hopes it will get up

Edited March 21, 2017 by Jesters-Ink

[Sir Texas Sir]

44 minutes ago, rediii said:

different and shit are 2 different things.

Maybe the testing-playerbase is just too old and can't accept new things.  

maybe it to hard?  To many folks these days want every thing easy and just handed to them.  I'm old and cranky and I like to keep on fighting though to remind me I'm still alive...ok I"m not that old but felt like when I hit 40 lol

[Jesters-Ink]

55 minutes ago, rediii said:

different and shit are 2 different things.

Maybe the testing-playerbase is just too old and can't accept new things.  

Maybe we should let the kids play on there own then  BTW its us old uns who have all the money

And its not about age or how hard it is (at least thats what I tell the wife), its about the fun. Now read that which ever way you like

TBH, I thought this game was going to be an adventure and a step back in time, but its turning out to be Quake at sea lol.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Jesters-Ink