Hotfix for patch 9.97: Land in port battles

[TommyShelby]

6 minutes ago, Prater said:

The question shouldn't be "why do you need to demast?"  It should be, "why can't we demast?"  What is so wrong with demasting that it needs to be taken away?  We need to demast because we want to and because most engagements in real life ended up with at least one of the ships demasted.

Has anyone tested the new mast mechanics out?  I only see the admin saying this: 

Nah, i honestly don't think there is a need to test it. 
We know the mast thickness and we know the cannon penetration. 
 

6 minutes ago, Ellis said:

There is no reason to replace a valid strategy, just because gankers happen to use them. 

Demasting should remain as a valid strategy, it allows you to manage an otherwise bad situation. Purely broadside trading will not work if you are in let's say a 2v1, by having demasting as a tactic it allows you to alter a situation and gives the player more strategic options.

Agreed.

 

5 minutes ago, Wind said:

It needs testing and fine tuning. I am sure it's not final value and will get adjusted once they get more data from fights. The increase is good, but like others said could be at Max allowed for comfortable level of gameplay. I would test more and wait for the Hotfix patch. Don't forget testing is uncomfortable feeling. 

But Mast Thickness was absolutely fine before this hotfix. So why change it? 
Mast HP was fine before this hotfix too. So why change it? 

But what do i know? I'm just a pleb with no experience when it comes to Naval Action combat mechanics
 

[Lord Vicious]

2 minutes ago, Wind said:

We have seen enough of yours. I appreciate your feedback. 

Yeah beside mine usually are supported by the community , this one is clearly not supported by the community beside you   (maybe becouse you horrible at demasting?)  or show me the thread where the community asked in majority for this new mast system.  (i now you cant provide one)

Edited December 21, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[TommyShelby]

1 minute ago, Wind said:

I understand, but with only 1 repair you can just kite anyone to Death. Don't you get it? You really want to call Kiting a skill?

Kiting and demasting was not possible before this patch. 

Well, it was possible for a 4th rate fighting a small 5th rate. But then it really was not possible because the small 5th rate will, usually, close on you before you demast him. 

Kiting and Chaining was a thing and is still a thing. 
So perhaps focus on that instead of removing something that was already hard to do?. 

[Neverdead Ned]

OK, so now we have a magic TP to avoid further PvP when leaving battles.  We have a new PB system which promotes sending fast boats into circles and then just waiting for the counter to tick up to 1000 before your enemy arrives(no shots needed).   A politics mechanic which promotes super block alliances which kills PvP.  So now unless you get your rocks off hitting PvE fleets, this ?game has turned into a Naval Inaction trading simulator........well done done devs!  Carebears 1  PvPr's 0

[Ned Loe]

4 minutes ago, Lord Vicious said:

Yeah beside mine usually are supported by the community , this is clearly not, beside you    or show me the thread where the community asked in majority for this new mast system.  (i now you cant provide one)

I will personally ask Devs to give you a free copy of their new game. Your feedback is great and right on point. 

[Pablo Frias]

Before March you could demast enemy ships without being a pro, just shooting at the enemy mast, the game was more dynamic, after March-April patch which destroyed demasting the game became a "Chaining contest". Why the devs fucked that mechanic if it was great?

Edited December 21, 2016 by Pablo Frias

[Guest]

When reading the admins post I had thought they were only buffing the hp of masts, which seemed completely fine (not REALLY needed, but more or less acceptable). Now I'm reading that they also buffed the thickness? I haven't been able to log on and check yet, but mast thickness DID NOT need to be increased. 

 

At most the thickness could have been slightly adjusted for a few ships (surprise's masts always feel a little too thin..) but that's about it.

[Lord Vicious]

3 minutes ago, Wind said:

I will personally ask Devs to give you a free copy of their new game. Your feedback is great and right on point. 

You clearly a good guy for the mod positions

 

1) you cant hantle truth

2) you censor any comment not goes your way

3) you argue with every pvper in the server becouse you support this mast buff only becouse you are notoriously bad at pvp and demasting

4) bad idea to brag your connection with the devs, you already sweating left and right  they not need another zombie to defend bad choices.

suggestion? dont reply, anymore this is becoming soo obvious that border the shame for you.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[Zoky]

2 minutes ago, Mark Twain said:

Carebears 1  PvPr's 0

more like 9999999999 to 0 when u count in recent patches

[Ned Loe]

7 minutes ago, Lord Vicious said:

You clearly a good guy for the mod positions

 

1) you cant hantle truth

2) you censor any comment not goes your way

3) you argue with every pvper in the server becouse you support this mast buff only becouse you are notoriously bad at pvp and demasting

 

suggestion? dont reply, anymore this is becoming soo obvious that border the shame for you.

We try to keep discussions nice and clean and without any hostility. If you are questioning Developer data please mail them with your concerns. Disrupting conversations and attacking players is not nice. We don't argue we try to figure out every detail and hear everyone's opinion. 

 

Thank you. 

[Lord Vicious]

Just now, Wind said:

We try to keep it nice and clean discussion without hostility. IF you are questioning Developer data please mail them with any concerns. Disrupting conversations and attacking players is not nice. 

I am not disrupting any conversation, i am not  questioning developer data,  i am questioning you.  You seams too eager to defend  this, maybe cause your own interest, you suppose to be an impartial watcher not a player, 

 

Again balancement went from 0 to 100, instead step by step,           when the majority of the best pvpersin game tell you is fine, means is fine.        Now demast have become almost mathematically impossible unless you in a frig and i am in a firstrate.    

[Puchu]

The thickness changes are horrible! They totally destroy one of the highest skill parts of combat!

The Speed module changes also killed the playstyle of outmaneuvering a tanky enemy ship. Which was also a high skill strategy and alrdy much harder than sailing a liveoak tanky ship.

 

It's just plain horrible!

[Yar Matey]

I thought the mast thickness before this latest thickness buff was already ridiculous.  Masts needed a HP buff and a thickness nerf, certainly not a thickness buff. 

Does mast armor thickness decrease the higher up the mast you go?  This is something I would like to see implemented if this is not the case.  But overall, 2 equally rated ships should be able to take down each others masts given enough skill, determination, and focus (specifically on the masts). 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Yar Matey

[Ned Loe]

7 minutes ago, Lord Vicious said:

I am not disrupting any conversation, i am not  questioning developer data,  i am questioning you.  You seams too eager to defend  this, maybe cause your own interest, you suppose to be an impartial watcher not a player, 

 

Again balancement went from 0 to 100, instead step by step,           when the majority of the best pvpersin game tell you is fine, means is fine.        Now demast have become almost mathematically impossible unless you in a frig and i am in a firstrate.    

This is true. That does not mean I can not express my point of view. We are allowed to participate in clean and civilized conversations. The more people talk the more information Developer can take out from these conversations. Sometime it's good to hit 100, listen to your comments and then fine tune it down. Saves time and money.  

[TommyShelby]

1 minute ago, Yar Matey said:

I thought the mast thickness before this latest thickness buff was already ridiculous.  Masts needed a HP buff and a thickness nerf, certainly not a thickness buff. 

Does mast armor thickness decrease the higher up the mast you go?  This is something I would like to see implemented if this is not the case.  But overall, 2 equally rated ships should be able to take down each others masts given enough determination and focus (specifically on the masts). 

It does decrease. There is 3 sections on a mast if i recall correctly.

But by how much it decreases noone knows. 

And to hit the 2 upper sections you must be further away making it very, very hard to take off one of those sections. It is much easier to just load chain instead of trying to for top part of masts. 

[Lord Vicious]

Just now, Wind said:

This is true. That does not mean I can not express my point of view. We are allowed to participate in clean and civilized conversations. The more people talk the more information Developer can take out from these conversations. Sometime it's good to hit 100, listen to your comments and then fine tune it. 

As you can clearly see majority of real pvpers, not ppl pretending too, agree that   demasting was already hard,    Now  is simply out of the table,  this boost was totally UNCALLED for. UN necessary,  How many times masts got buffed in last 6 months?    at list 4-5 times.         

 

if 6 months ago was ridiculous to demast a santi from 1km with 6pounders, now is ridiculous that a frig can withstand 20-30 balls of 42 pounders from 200mt and not lose a single mast

[Neptune]

Why do you keep buffing the masts to the point where it's so unbalanced all we have left to do is chain and shoot hull? Hull, Chainshot, Masts and Raking were all balanced nicely before this patch. Why do we have steel masts again? I just don't get it. It's not like demasting was easy to do, and it actually took skill. I guess we are back to the old steel masts, hullshooting & chainshot fests again.  *Sigh*

Thanks for the laugh. When steel masts are gone and demasting is part of the game again I'll play again. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Neptune

[Guenwhyvar]

9 hours ago, admin said:

main post updated with full patch notes

Why not start a new topic? How can you see what the new info is? How do people keep track of what is said in the forums or do you have to hire people to read this 24/7?

[Guest]

So after looking at the new mast thickness stats, I feel everything below the surprise (Reno, Cerb, 6th, 7th) seems to be fine. Many of those stats did seem to be quite low, considering the updated penetration for the lower caliber guns. I would be fine if those stayed the same.

As an example, Surprise went from 75cm to 83cm. This allows it to be more competitive with other 5th rates, and seems fine.

 

However, all ships larger than Surprise should be reverted to their previous ratings. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Guest

[Yar Matey]

1 hour ago, TommyShelby said:

Before Hotfix: 
In fact, 32 Pd Carronades could still demast a Trincomalee from about 70 meters.
However 9pd Longs could not penetrate a Trinc Masts at all.
18pd Longs could penetrate Trinc Masts from about 100. 
24pd Longs could penetrate Trinc Masts from about 250.
32pd Longs could penetrate Trinc Masts from about 375.
42pd Longs could penetrate Trinc Masts from about 550.

After Hotfix:
Now. 32pd carro's can't penetrate Trinc masts.
18pd's can't Penetrate Trinc masts.
24pd Longs can penetrate Trinc Masts from about 100 Meters.
32pd Longs can penetrate Trinc Masts from about 250 Meters.
42pd Longs can penetrate Trinc Masts from about 375 Meters.

I'll be happy to do this with other ships as well but basically this illustrates my point.
Before teh hotfix, it was a challenge to demast a ship without being pounded to Davy Jones Lockers before succesfully demasting. 
After the hotfix, impossible to demast unless you are in a bigger ship. And then it'll still be a challenge because when in a bigger ship you will want to keep smaller ships at a distance so they cannot rake you. 

Basically the viable tactics are now: Broadside Trading, Chaining, Raking. 
Before hotfix Demasting was barely Viable. 
Now it is not Viable at all. 

This bothers me the more I think about it because the only way a constitution could defend itself against more agile ships was to demast them.  The bottom deck of a constitution gets 24 pd cannons, and closing to 100 meters to penetrate the masts is not an easy thing to do, especially against 5th rates.  I worry about the effect these changes will have as far as the balance between different rated ships.  5th rates use their agility to try and stern rake 4th rates like the constitution, and 4th rates use their superior firepower to try and shoot out masts.  Can a 4th rate even defend itself against 5th rates now?  It only takes 2-3 good stern rakes from a 5th rate to cripple a constitution. 

[TommyShelby]

1 minute ago, Yar Matey said:

This bothers me the more I think about it because the only way a constitution could defend itself against more agile ships was to demast them.  The bottom deck of a constitution gets 24 pd cannons, and closing to 100 meters to penetrate the masts is not an easy thing to do, especially against 5th rates.  I worry about the effect these changes will have as far as the balance between different rated ships.  5th rates use their agility to try and stern rake 4th rates like the constitution, and 4th rates use their superior firepower to try and shoot out masts.  Can a 4th rate even defend itself against 5th rates now?  It only takes 2-3 good stern rakes from a 5th rate to cripple a constitution. 

While i kept arguing that before the hotfix, a well played Connie could beat 2x 5th rates, even 3x 5th rates. 
 

I truly dont think it can now. Unless the 5th rates are really really bad.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

While i kept arguing that before the hotfix, a well played Connie could beat 2x 5th rates, even 3x 5th rates. 
 

I truly dont think it can now. Unless the 5th rates are really really bad.

You proved that to be true vs a bellona and myself in a surprise. Your conni fully demasted us both. Now, the conni can't even penetrate a bellona AT ANY DISTANCE...

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Guest

[TommyShelby]

2 minutes ago, EliteDelta said:

You proved that to be true vs a bellona and myself in a surprise. Your conni fully demasted us both. Now, the conni can't even penetrate a bellona AT ANY DISTANCE...

 

Heh, i remember that fight lol. 
I barely survived but my practice in demasting payed off. Twas awesome. 

[Koltes]

7 hours ago, admin said:

If by solo hunt you described cases when target escaped and then alt f4ed from the BR screen or waited there for 1 hour - it was happening before too. 

By Solo hunt I described when I'm a pirate and sail solo into nation populated territory to find me some fights or traders. Before October patch I had plenty of those. There were less restrictions, no coastal defenses - gang or grief haven (I'm not a griefer and anyone on PVP2, especially Brits can second that I'm sure).
Some would say, what no protection to trader??? Gang fest? Yes it was, BUT! This made Brits think and work together. Only a week after my raids soon as I would show up they start working together, reporting me in Nation chat. Getting some force together to come out and help the guy or escort him to safety. All this promoted teamwork, collaboration, thrill etc.

Before October patch I got into over 50 solo fights during quiet times after DT in just 2 weeks
After October patch I was able to get into less than 5 solo pvp in 2 months.
Now when everyone is so protected by the game mechanics hunting solo is near impossible.

You know when EVE Online has come out it was half ready. All they had is just few systems, lots of bottleneck points etc. No mechanics to "save" you if you are on your own.
There was lots of crying PVE babies, but you know what, the popularity of this game has rocket boosted because of that free to attack or run. No mechanics that would stop either.

If you want the PVP guys to come back and triple server numbers you need to change the mindset around OW and PB.
OW is an opportunistic PVP area. Its ok to gang or to be ganged or chased. Make it possible to catch fast, have fast decent fights, great rewards for killing but also great rewards for risking and trading. This will bring life back to open waters. No timers, or at least make them 30 min timers so anyone can join the battle instance. This is much more fair for the trader to get help and for the pirate trying to avoid being ganged in his hunt. Again brings thrill and danger.
PB on the other hand should be fair and even. This is where you test your skills as a team. Entry to PB needs to be screen free and easy. Its an ORGANIZED PVP EVENT BATTLE. This is how I see it. When PBs start being fair they will fill up with numbers and we get this side of PVP sorted as well.

Right now its all the other way around. Your OW is hard to gang, hunt get fair or unfair pvp ect. While PB screen fest promotes ganging outside PB entry and prevents people to bring even numbers.

Sort this and I guarantee your server population will start boosting up again. 100% without any doubt!

[Stilgar]

Currently mini-map is limited to the "field of view" of your ship, which is a rather limited area. Would it be possible to see all three zones at he same time on mini-map? If not, then perhaps for the best: commanders will have to communicate about situation in each zone.